Guide Pins

chopperdr47 · February 06, 2014, 12:35:08 PM

Another great lesson learned here on FF. Good Guide pins and diesel/oil mix are invaluable on a circle mill!

I was using some make-due oak pins that I made. They worked fine but wore easily. I was advised to use dogwood next time. I had a decent size piece that I had been saving from some clearing I had done, so I did as I was told.

Just for grins, I treated them with heated bees wax to preserve and lubricate, it soaked in pretty well. I'm sure the diesel/oil negated the need for that though.

I was told the dogwood would wear like iron. So far, very true.

Jeff · February 06, 2014, 12:53:45 PM

Yea, oak or ash neither one works all that well as it tens to start splitting away on the bottom. The very best guide pins I have ever used and the longest lasting are actually sleeved in brass. I think there was a picture on here somewhere. I have a couple around her too, but they may be impossible to find until I don't want them, then they will pop up. I'll see if I can find them.

Red Good · February 06, 2014, 02:46:55 PM

Not having as mill and experience with a mill , guide pins for what ?

beenthere · February 06, 2014, 03:04:12 PM

To guide the circular saw blade when in the cut.

Here is a good read on circular sawmills and it will include the saw guide.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

See p 45 for description...

hackberry jake · February 06, 2014, 03:12:58 PM

I have heard of dogwood being used for all kinds of things because it is so dense and fine grained. I hear submarines used it for bushings/bearings back in the day because it would hold up to the saltwater better than anything they had at the time. Im sure they use stainless steel or titanium or something now.

Red Good · February 06, 2014, 06:08:43 PM

Thanks beenthere , appreciate it . Good reading there .

Ron Wenrich · February 06, 2014, 06:27:30 PM

Dogwood used to be used as pins in post and beam construction.

I've used locust with good results. I imagine you can also get good mileage from ironwood, persimmon or osage orange. Most of the current mills use a composite guide. They're uniform in size and last a long time.

I also remember seeing some of guides where they would wrap a piece of oil soaked leather on the guide pin. I don't recall how it was fastened. That was also supposed to last a really long time.

chopperdr47 · February 06, 2014, 08:44:09 PM

I have to be sparing with dogwood. My wife counts them after I've been in the woods. I'll use ironwood next but I don't think it will be too soon.

Around here, american hornbeam is refereed to as ironwood. I don't use a chainsaw on it. I either use an axe or pull it up with a backhoe, it's pretty tough. It'll be interesting to see how it does on the lathe.

bandmiller2 · February 06, 2014, 08:49:13 PM

I use oak boiled in oil with a bronze oillite bushing pressed over it. The thing is if your wearing out a lot of guide pins your not adjusted right. My first mill had a composit material they never seemed to wear out. Frank C.

chopperdr47 · February 06, 2014, 09:07:48 PM

I don't believe I'll be using too many now. I've spent a lot of time reading, learning and adjusting and it's cutting great now.

It was while I was doing all of those things that I wore the oak ones out.

Possum Creek · February 06, 2014, 10:39:25 PM

I use hickory for guide pins and when I am not running the mill I keep them in a bucket of burnt oil. Seems to work good so far. PC

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · February 06, 2014, 10:58:48 PM

Dogwood was a favored wood for golf club "woods." I believe that a big operation was in Memphis, TN and they used a radio frequency dryer too. Unusual and a big secret operation in many ways.

In the mill I managed, we had two blocks of ebony and never did anything with them for years.

lyle niemi · February 06, 2014, 11:07:52 PM

Quote from: chopperdr47 on February 06, 2014, 12:35:08 PM
Another great lesson learned here on FF. Good Guide pins and diesel/oil mix are invaluable on a circle mill!

I was using some make-due oak pins that I made. They worked fine but wore easily. I was advised to use dogwood next time. I had a decent size piece that I had been saving from some clearing I had done, so I did as I was told.

Just for grins, I treated them with heated bees wax to preserve and lubricate, it soaked in pretty well. I'm sure the diesel/oil negated the need for that though.

I was told the dogwood would wear like iron. So far, very true.

If you're wearing your guides out quickly something is not quite right, I very seldom have to touch mine. I just use some old broom stick for my guides

chopperdr47 · February 07, 2014, 08:13:39 AM

Getting everything adjusted right is the biggest thing that's saving the pins.

ddcuning · February 08, 2014, 06:28:34 AM

I used persimmon on my pins and it seems to work well. I was hard up against them in Dec before getting my blade hammered and they held up well. We are sawing for the first time today so we will see how the hammering and adjusting worked for us.

Dave C

NMFP · February 08, 2014, 08:07:46 AM

We run an edminston hydraulic mill at the school where I teach and we normally use the resin guides but I also use hard maple that I turned and soaked in 10 weight oil. I have found that using hard maple soaked in oil actually makes less noise than the resin guide material.

Over the summer when we do not have classes, I take the guide material out (if its maple) and re soak them over the summer in a quart jar with #10 oil.

A guy close to me uses Birch for his guide pins.

chopperdr47 · February 08, 2014, 09:54:00 AM

I like the idea of soaking in oil. I'll make my next ones now and get them soaking.

NMFP · February 08, 2014, 10:14:10 AM

There is a material and I don't know the name that is supposed to wear more than resin but less than wood but I cannot remember the name. It was designed for the guys that always ran a guide touching the saw. If I remember correctly, it was hollow like a piece of pipe so that it transferred the heat away from constantly rubbing the saw. If I can remember where to look for that information, I will post it.

Jeff · February 08, 2014, 10:30:51 AM

Why would someone go to the trouble of building something like that rather than tuning a saw right? Guide pins are only there for catastrophic movement. The name is a misnomer. They are not meant to guide the saw, but to protect it.

chopperdr47 · February 08, 2014, 10:44:45 AM

Prevention versus cure... I'm there with you. I don't want to cover another underlying issue. The softer pins I had let me know about the other problems I had without damaging the blade, but they went in a hurry.

I'm not sure that I have everything exactly right, but its a LOT better. I have a slight bevel on the blade end of the pins so I will be able to see quickly if I'm getting too much wear.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · February 08, 2014, 12:28:29 PM

Jeff's comment about the guides for a circular saw deserve more publicity.

When the saw is stationary, the blade will touch one of the guides. As the full speed is reached, the saw will move and neither guide will touch, because the blade does straighten.

chopperdr47 · February 08, 2014, 12:51:39 PM

I figured that one out from the other stuff I learned about the dish in the blade. The husk side pin is just barely touching when its stopped and the log side has 1/8". When the blade stands up, there looks like 1/16" on both sides but I'm not putting a tape in there then to find out for sure. I'll trust the math there.

I did use the guide pin bracket sliding adjustment to center it while it was running, but by eyeballing from a safe distance.

Ron Wenrich · February 08, 2014, 12:55:18 PM

Guide pins should be set while the saw is running. You should be able to see daylight on either side,.

NMFP · February 08, 2014, 08:38:42 PM

Quote from: Jeff on February 08, 2014, 10:30:51 AM
Why would someone go to the trouble of building something like that rather than tuning a saw right? Guide pins are only there for catastrophic movement. The name is a misnomer. They are not meant to guide the saw, but to protect it.

Exactly. However, I was on a sawmill tour while going to college and believe it or not, I saw a circle mill that I believe was 60" that had a set of guides on the leading and tailing edge. I asked why and the gentleman that was going the tour said " because when the saw gets hot, we can keep running and it takes the wobble out of the saw"

Obviously, these people need a different career or a much better group of guys as that is only putting a band aide on a band aide! I guess if your around enough, you see all kinds of stuff that will make you just scratch your head!

Jeff · February 08, 2014, 08:48:22 PM

That is a recipe for disaster. A saw can get unstable very fast if it heats, and it can heat very fast. In moments. I've seen a saw were you could look at both sides at the same time it was so hot. A sawyer trainee was sawing, and I was observing. He was a couple months into it where he could "solo" from time to time. I had went into the office for something,was only gone a moment. when I looked up to the head saw it was probably waving 6 or 8 inches out of line. The guy was in a panic and didn't know what to do. SHUT THE POWER OFF! That's what he was trained to do if something went wrong, but he was more worried about escaping. I went over to the main panel box and threw the power main for the entire mill to shut it down from close to where I was. He had gotten just a small sliver of wood caught between the saw and the off bearing belt conveyor. If he would have tried to run the carriage past that saw it would have torn it off the arbor.