Swing Bladers----Need help

Fla._Deadheader · July 24, 2003, 04:32:20 PM

I have been studyin these things for a while. Can't seem to get to see one doing what I am interested in. How do you cut a 12" board with a 6" or 8" cut??? If ya make one pass, surely, ya can't just cross over the log and saw back'ards with the blade ??? It WILL try to kick out or bend the blade right ???

biziedizie · July 24, 2003, 04:39:20 PM

  Harold call Lucas and get a free demo tape off them. 1-800-322-4539. Peterson has a free tape aswell that is great on showing the detail.
  I'd send ya mine but your credit is runing a little thin around here. :D :D ;D ;) :D

   Steve

Ianab · July 24, 2003, 05:11:24 PM

OK.. this is the clever bit...
When you make the 2nd cut on the other side of the log you do use the 'back' of the blade, but you make it walking in the opposite direction

This keeps the blades rotation correct in relation to the log.

Fla._Deadheader · July 24, 2003, 06:32:01 PM

Lanab, Are ya saying that ya make a false pass to get to the other end of the log, to start the 2nd part of the cut ???

Captain · July 24, 2003, 07:21:34 PM

When I am "double cutting" with my Peterson, I need to remove the blade guard and temporarily ignore the sawing direction sticker. When I am cutting with the blade in the horizontal, usually I am pushing the blade, working from the left side of the log. When that cut is complete, at the far end of the log, I crank the saw blade over and cut pulling the blade back down the right side of the log. The cuts meet in the middle. The blade is still engaging the piece in a safe manner, think of a table saw for a minute. If you feed stock correctly, the blade does not rip it right out of your hands. Now think of what happens if you try to feed it backwards...on the sawmill this is a CLIMB CUT.....VERY DANGEROUS AND UNCONTROLLED. When cutting on the right side of the log with the "back" side of the blade, it is like feeding a table saw stock from the bottom rear instead of the top front, the blade is in the correct orientation.
It is usually necessary to finish the right side edge before the final cut is made releasing the finished "double wide" piece. The process is easy, but I do not have much call for really wide stuff. Most of the Pine is used for dimensional lumber and most of the hardwood is cut a maximum of 5/4 x 8. Most of what I "double cut" is large beams.

The Lucas mills are incapable of double cutting without picking up the saw bed and reversing it on the rails.

For the true picture, click the Peterson icon on the left and get an information packet....now that I've probably made you more confused....

Captain

EZ · July 24, 2003, 07:24:40 PM

They will cut both dirrections, pretty cool how it saws.
EZ

Fla._Deadheader · July 24, 2003, 08:23:38 PM

Thanks Captain. That answers the other question, also. Just takes a couple extra passes. ;)

DanG · July 24, 2003, 09:22:56 PM

Let me see if I can muddy the water a bit more. :D Here is my concept of what's going on here, so let's see if I'm right.

When you make the forward pass on the left side of the log, the bottom of the blade is pushing away from the sawyer. When you rotate for the return pass, what was the top of the blade, now on the right, is pushing toward the sawyer. This removes the first board, leaving a big rabbet on the upper left quadrant of the log. After reaching the desired point, you can move the saw to the right side, and make your horizontal cut first, away from the sawyer, and do the vertical on the return pass. This keeps the blade oriented correctly for each cut and allows you to cut one "double cut" oversized board from the center, on each level of the process. If you have a 6" max cut, you could cut one 12" board, and however many 6" boards, on a given log, at each level, then lower 1 or 2 inches and repeat. You could choose the place at each level to take your oversized board, giving you a lot of flexibility. Of course, this takes a lot of thinking and planning on the sawyer's part, further enhancing the fun. 8)

Now, Harold, get yourself an old Freightliner and a 52" headsaw and get busy building the Granddaddy of all swingblades. ;D That 350 Cummins oughta be just about right. :D

Ianab · July 25, 2003, 03:29:32 AM

Sounds like you guys have got the general idea...
The double cut is a bit of extra mucking about, but it does work, and is sorta a bonus feature.
Other usefull one is to be able to cut one full size slab from each log.
Idea is to cut down thru the log, taking your normal timber, untill you get like 2/3 of the way thru. Then.. turn the log over, and cut from the other side. Should end up with a solid slab of whatever thickness you want to leave.
Anyway.. I'm off to pick up my 'new' secondhand Petterson tomorrow, probably wont get a chance to run it tomorrow and then weather is supposed to close in for a few days :( But will post some pics once I've made some sawdust

Fla._Deadheader · July 25, 2003, 05:22:57 AM

Mostly, I have this steady customer that has logs coming in all the time. He wants 3½" X 12" beams out of any log that will make them. With the bandmill, I take 1 of that size off the top and them turn the log and square the cant, taking boards, until I get to whatever will make beams. Then turn the cant and finish the beams.
We Don'T get many BIG logs here.
Hmmmmmmmm----------DanG, yer 36" blade would make a Dandy Swinger :

:

;)

KiwiJake · July 25, 2003, 05:39:23 AM

Double cutting on a Peterson is probably difficult to get your head around through words, it is very simple, once you get a routine going it becomes a standard operation that doesn't take much extra effort or thought at all. On the automatic it becomes all the easier eg... one point operation. I did about 800 bf of 2x16 at the fieldays placing them all sprawled out to show off the clean intersect lines. The double cut feature is a real crowd pleaser as every one has seen the other mills do the same standard cuts over and over, but to see a mill doing something different is always a great bonus (takes a bit longer to stack the things though).

Fla._Deadheader · July 25, 2003, 05:58:59 AM

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

DanG · July 25, 2003, 06:57:03 AM

FDH, the Mobile Dimension Saw will make your 3.5x12s in one pass. The main blade will do 12 1/2 inches, while the edgers are cutting a hair over 4 inches deep. We can also get one full width slab per log by turning the log over once, but we can get as many 4x12s as the log has in it.

Fla._Deadheader · July 25, 2003, 07:52:00 AM

   DanG, I ran a MD mill in Arkansas. I am fairly familiar with how they operate and am impressed with how little maintenance they require. I like the changeable teeth idea.
  I am looking for a portable mill, truly portable, that will stand up to long trips on the highway, from home to the river, on a fairly regular basis. A more rigidly built trailer- bunk system is what I believe I want. I won't be sawing THAT many very large logs.
  My customer reminded me yesterday, that, the Aus. Pine is still waiting for me. Most of that stuff is 8"- 16" dia.
  I just found someone in the area that we are working, on the Peterson Website. I sent an E-mail, and, hopefully, I can see one of the Petersons actually in operation. 8)

KiwiJake · July 25, 2003, 04:44:45 PM

I don't know if you've done this fla. but click on products and then models on the Petersonsawmills site, just select any one of the three models ATS, AUTOMATED or WPF this will give you the option of playing a quick online video glimps of them. (the automated is pushing a board off while it cuts, you cant really see this, you do have the option to return the board while it cuts too.)

Hey Dang whats the max cut in horizontal on the Mobile? It's pretty interesting how your edgers are movable in relation to your main saw. I guess this is done through some sort of key slide. I haven't been lucky enough to see the Mobile in New Zealand but I'm sure I'll get to see it sometime. The Mahoe over here looks similar though, it's only got the two blades.

Fla._Deadheader · July 25, 2003, 05:00:32 PM

Thanks Jake. I am hooked up to the slowest phone connection in the world. It takes so long to download the video, by the time I can view it, The log is sawed up and the crew has gone home. :

;D :D :D :D
I actually did get to see it 1 time, then the connection shut down.

DanG · July 27, 2003, 09:09:11 PM

K_Jake, the bottom edger is stationary, with respect to the main blade. It's cut intersects with the bottom of the main blade cut. The upper edger is movable via a small crank on the operator's panel. It moves up and down on a rack and pinion and has a guage wheel on the crank. It is surprisingly accurate, as the kerf is figured in on the wheel, so, if I set it to 4" it produces a 4" board. The upper edger can be set from 2" to 12" above the lower.

As my mill is configured, I can make a maximum horizontal cut of 4"+. I can remove the upper edger and replace the lower one with a larger blade, and cut up to 7" horizontal, while cutting up to 12.5 inches vertically. I'm seriously considering making this change, as I don't use the upper edger all that much, and the wider hor. cut would add a lot of flexibility to my operation.

To me, the biggest advantage of the MD is accuracy. That big ol' beam that the saw head rides on is absolutely rigid and straight. That means that each succeeding cut is parallel, in both planes, to the previous cut. If a 2x4 is 2"x4" at the head end, it is 2"x4" at the tail end, and at all points in between.

Harold, one of the big differences between the MD and most bandsaws, is that the MD is not a trailer. Mine happens to be mounted ON a trailer, but that trailer has nothing to do with sawing lumber. The mill could be mounted on any kind of trailer. I've often thought that mounting one on a 40' dropdeck lowboy would be a good way to go. You could go to the woods, cut 3 or 4 thou and haul the whole mess home at the end of the day. You could even take along one of them little piggyback forklifts to do all the work for you, and give you and Ed somewhere to sit while eating your midday can of peas. ;D

Fla._Deadheader · July 28, 2003, 04:44:25 AM

DanG, ya got my interest up, when ya told me about the used MD that you were gonna check up on. Any news regarding that mill???
  I posted about a full blown Circle mill that I saw and ran, in Arkansas. It was mounted on a school bus chassis. That would work also. ;D
  We gotta go take care of our pets in about an hour. Be gone all week, or even longer, maybe ??? Leave me an update on the PM Board.

jimmy · August 22, 2003, 08:54:15 AM

which is better the lucas or peterson mill

Tom · August 22, 2003, 08:57:01 AM

Welcome to the forum, Jimmy.

That's a heck of a question. I am anxious to see the answers but I'll bet it will be in the arena of "what's best, a Ford or a Chevy". :D

Fla._Deadheader · August 22, 2003, 11:51:58 AM

  I'll show my butt and answer ya ;D ;D
  Don'T think I would like the Lucas, BECAUSE, If ya wanna cut a slab or beam, wider than 8", ya GOTTA physically take the sawframe off the tracks and turn it around, to get the extra width.??? ???
  I'm trying real hard to get info on the Peterson, but, so far, no response from the US Dealer ??? ???
  Guess I will go ahead and start building one from scratch :

DanG · August 22, 2003, 12:25:55 PM

I ain't sure about this, but I THINK the Lucas head swings 90 degrees, while the Peterson will swing a full 180 degrees to allow a return pass down the other side of the cant/log. The limiting factor would be; the cant/log can be no wider than twice the max depth the blade will cut. You swingers need to chime in and keep our info accurate. Let us know if we're right or wrong. ;)

Fla._Deadheader · August 22, 2003, 03:43:50 PM

According to the Lucas video, from Bailey's, you turn the sawframe or carriage, as I posted earlier.
There was a discussion on the thread above this one, that stated, on a Peterson, if you want to get a wider cut than 8", you finish the first cut, then move the head over to the other side of the log and saw back. That sure beats picking up the saw and engine.

DanG · August 22, 2003, 03:51:22 PM

I'd think you'd have to flip the saw over as you switch sides, or your blade would be spinning the wrong way when you came down the back side of the log. Right? ???

Fla._Deadheader · August 22, 2003, 04:15:38 PM

Nope

  I thought the same thing, but, Kiwi Jake and Lanab and Captain, beat it into my thick skull, that ta gotta get outta the box to use a swinger ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

  Let me try, When ya saw down the left side of a log, yer blade is cutting INTO the log. When ya cross over to the right side and saw back, the blade is cutting into the log, in the OPPOSITE direction.
  I sat here twirlin my fingers and gettin dizzy, until the light bulb went off

:

:D :D :D
That's one good reason why I want a swinger, HARD logs and wide cut, up to 17" anyway. Works like yer bottom blade on the MD for slickin off the top of the log.
Wish I could see one actually cutting. :