Black Oak vs Red Oak

[oakiemac]

I have some Oak logs given to me which I believe are Black Oak. They are very nice logs, about 30"DIB and 10' long and straight. Well, I was talking to a tree service guy about helping me move them since they are about 35 miles from home and he tells me that no sawmill will take Black Oak and they not worth anything. Now what I've always thought was that commercially Black Oak is sold under the name of Red Oak and there was no difference in the quality of the wood. What do you all think? Is the tree service guy nuts or am I wrong?
Oakie ???

[dewwood]

Oakie,

There was a discussion on this a while back, check the archives.  Basically black oak is sold as red oak commercially, however it will not bring quite as much in the log form as red oak.  Generally the first log is the only one that will have much quality grade lumber.  The upper logs will have to much defect for grade but make excellent blocking or pallet grade.

Dewey

See you at the Congress!

[bull]

Black oak is valued about 1/3 of what read oak is . It makes great beams and bridge timbers. It is dark and notty and not as pretty as red oak. Post and Beams guys like it. It is also used for fence posts..... I  have made may pallets with black oak as well..... don't throw it out.   The Tree Service guy is not a sawyer and is in it for the cash value of the job and not the value in the tree. The sawyer is in it for the value of the  tree which could equal cash if the tree guy knew what he was doing.  But we should keep that secret to ourselves.... Those free logs from the Tree Service guys are nice extra's

[Bro. Noble]

We sell black oak right along with red oak.  The lumber would be hard (for Me) to tell from Shumard oak or Scarlet oak.  It us usually redder in color than Northern red oak.  Seems like diseases and borers are working on black oak in our area more than the other red oaks so we get a lot of defects from that.

I think when people say that buyers won't take black oak,  they must mean BlackJack oak.  It's not marketable for anything but firewood.  The wood is very dark and of poor quality

[Jeff]

We saw black oak all the time and sell it right along with Northern red. Black oak trees, as a rule are generally of lower quality then Northern Red, but there are still some good ones. I would be willing to bet that if you took a clear board from a northern red oak and a clear board from a black oak and put them in front of a grader, he can't tell which is which. Further more, I'll bet a lot of tree service guys can't tell the difference in the trees.

[Tom]

Here is the two-page thread concerning Red and Black oak identification. Link=click !

Basically, it boiled down to this excerpt from Swamp White Oak's post.  

......all oaks fall into two categories, red or white.  Beyond that level red oaks fall into either "true red oaks" or "willow oaks".  White oaks fall into "chestnut oaks" and "true white oaks".  Keep in mind this is speaking botanically, most of the time they are just red or white when you're talking about wood.
 
Red Oaks
True - Northern Red oak, southern red oak, scarlet oak, black oak, blackjack oak, pin oak, ect.
Willow- willow oak, shingle oak, water oak
 
White Oaks
True - white oak, bur oak, swamp white oak,live oak, ect.
Chestnut - chestnut oak, chinkapin oak

[oakiemac]

Thanks all. Two weeks ago I sawed some black oak and to me, it was the same as the Red. I thought maybe it was just my inexperienced eys.
Oakie

[Sawyerfortyish]

You can send me all that crappy black oak that nobody buys.I 'll eat it up. I don't think there's anyone that can tell the red from black after there cut. Red- white- black it don't matter to me as long as it's not blue oak : i'm a low grade mill

[AtLast]

Ok since we are on the subject  ;D..what about things like burr oak or swamp oak or shumar oak...I THINK the shumar is in the Red family but is it marketable?...also..any suggestions on Beechnut. I have a land clearing contract that wants to claim the norway maple and beech for lumber..the maples are BEAUTIFULL long straight and a good 30" dia theres even a few shag bark hickorys that are easily 60 footers but only about 12" dia..I realize the dia is small but because of its length should I promot cutting those as well?...The beech are strong 28"dia with about 14 to 16 ft of butt log for milling. 2 of the 6 logs they want milled are easily grade 1 logs...spotless...so are the bastard oaks but are they worthy? ???

[Minnesota_boy]

I like to saw the burr oak into planks for decking trailers.  I find that they have too many knots to make good cabinet lumber, but burr oak is the most durable wood we have in these parts, hard and tough enough to hold up to skid steers and small cats.  The guys that haul the bigger cats use them too, but they replace them more often. ;D

[Sawyerfortyish]

I cut my beech -birch- soft maple and whatever else I can get. As long of a  log as I can. I sell a lot of 18-24' 6x6-8x8-10x10 for machinery skids for shipping. Anything over 18' I get a buck a foot for it dont matter what kind of wood