Video of my e-classic working properly

[ecrane99]

I took a vid of my reaction chamber working the best i have seen in three years since the purchase.  I am now getting gasification within 4 minutes of startup. The key in my situation was drilling the new airholes and making sure the bypass door has a perfectly tight seal (i don't use the bypass anymore) to avoid the airleaks. It's all about good airflow and dry wood.  I hope this vid helps folks that are still having probs with getting their stoves properly setup.  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLllWrjHv18

Ed in CT

[beenthere]

Quite a blast furnace going there.

Hard for me to get a perspective on what I am watching, but understand filming is difficult. And I have looked into the e-classic so think this blast is in the bottom of the furnace.

What I have a hard time understanding, is how (over a period of time be it hours, days, weeks) does a person maintain the right fuel bed and the right exposure to clean air holes and add the right charge of dry fuel wood, without standing right by the e-classic all the time? 

[doctorb]

ecrane-
nice video.  I have only directly looked for reaction chamber gasification only once during my one winter of use, and it looked like that to me.  I have not drilled the extra holes, but your comments makes me think that I better consider it.  I need to wait until I am completely shut down, which could be in May!, before tackling that.

I have been studying my stack to try to fully understand the burn efficiency of the e-2300.  I notice that, when my stove fan kicks back on @ 185 (Temps set at 185 - 195 degrees) that I get a little smoke out of the stack for a few minutes.  The smoke usually clears completely a minute or so after the fan kicks over to the high burn setting.  I play a little game with my stove to try to guess where in the cycle (heating from 185 up to 195 or cooling down to 185 again) it is as I walk up to it, noting whether the fans are on and whether there is any smoke out of the stack.  If I see smoke (almost any smoke at all) when the furnace is in high burn mode, it needs cleaning.  Depending upon the time lapse between the last time the stove fired up, and the quality of the fuel, the change over to gasification seems pretty rapid.  On warm days, where the stove has not been cycled sequentially very often, I would opine that it takes a little longer for the fan air flow to rekindle the coal bed for enough heat/smoke for gasification.
beenthere - I think my above description of the moment to moment efficiency I observe applies to your querie.  I don't think that you have to watch the stove constantly.  In fact, it seems to do very well on its own for a period of a few days up to several weeks.  I think that you learn the "personality" of this thing (I have felt the same way about my past indoor wood burning stoves).  It's actually pretty incredible when you get the handle on it.  Doctorb

[beenthere]

.............  I think that you learn the "personality" of this thing (I have felt the same way about my past indoor wood burning stoves).  It's actually pretty incredible when you get the handle on it.  Doctorb

Yes, I can agree with that "getting to know" the "personality". Same with my indoor stove, but was wondering how I would have time to monitor all that was/is going on with these outdoor systems. Thanks.

[doctorb]

Well, just like you, a trip to my basement to view the incoming water temp tells me that the stove is working.  But unlike you I have to walk out to the barn shed to see if its working efficiently.  Maybe that's why it takes a little longer to get the feel for the outdoor burners.

[ecrane99]

Quite a blast furnace going there.

Hard for me to get a perspective on what I am watching, but understand filming is difficult. And I have looked into the e-classic so think this blast is in the bottom of the furnace.

What I have a hard time understanding, is how (over a period of time be it hours, days, weeks) does a person maintain the right fuel bed and the right exposure to clean air holes and add the right charge of dry fuel wood, without standing right by the e-classic all the time? 

Beenthere,   Yes it is the bottom chamber.  This is the only outdoor boiler i have used, so i have nothing to compare it to regarding maintanence.  I do have to admit, it takes more than i anticipated.  It def has a "personality" that can be complex in the begining.


Doctorb,  My stove was smoking much more than your description. It would sometimes smoke through the entire cycle. Sounds like yours is performing fine already.  During last summers cleaning, I noticed my bypass door wasn't sealed tight.  That may have been the culprit. Did you find you stove to operate better by increasing the operating temp or is that how it was delivered?

[doctorb]

My temps were suggersted by the plumber who did my "inside" work and who has installed several of these furnaces.  He likes to see the return temp to the stove at 180 degrees.  He bases this, not on stove performance, but on the fact that he wants at least 185 degrees delivered from the stove to my heat exchanger to keep the optimum temp (in his opinion) for my hot water baseboard heat.  If the differential in these temps was greater, then the stove would have to work harder or more often or both.  I have not tried other temp settings on the e-2300.

I have had the same isssue with a poor seal at the bypass door on occasion, due to creosote build-up, and have had to clean it to get the stove back to peak performance.  You are right, if the air from the fan blown into the firebox is partially allowed to escape throught the bypass door rather than down into the fusion chamber due to a poor seal, then gasification is decreased and smoke will be seen out of the chimney.  As has been mentioned here last year, you've got to go through every possible cause for a decrease in efficiency when the stove does not seem to run well.   Doctorb

[island]

I drilled the holes CB recomended,by accident I keep the bypass door closed because of creosote making it stick shut(burning cheap pallets),and I keep the temp at 190,so unit turns on at 185.This unit works much better this year than last year,a real heat monster.To bad I cooked the lens on the light.Nice video of the fusion chamber!

[doctorb]

Island-

I'll bet that you've learned when to load, and when not to load your furnace!  When you open the firebox door with the bypass door shut, all the air flow comes out of the door, into your face and hair!  Do you wear fire proof coveralls and a hat?  If you let the fire burn down prior to loading, you'll be OK.  If you try to look at the firebox at a time in the cycle when the fans have been bringing it up to temp, you'd better watch out.  Not hard to see how your light cover has been a victim of "friendly fire". 

With yours and ecrane's performance reports, I guess I will call my dealer and have the holes drilled.  Mine is working so well right now I don't want to shut it down!

[jason1977]

hay guys i was just wondering if it is normal that mine hardly every goes into high burn.  i got my temp set at 180 is that good or should i turn it up?  when i load my stove up it seems to smoke a little intill it is almost gone is that normal?  it holds temp realy good.  i am burning mostly cottonwood right now i cut it last winter and split it in late july.  i think it is preaty dry now.  it has been 20 25 deg at night here and i fill it about half full about 8 9 olclock and i have little left by 9 in the morning does that sound about right.  this is my first winter with it.  thanks for the info guys.

jason

[doctorb]

Jason

I would ask your dealer to look at that.  I have also found that a call to CB is very helpful becasue your dealer may not be as conversant with this specific detail of the furnace function as they are.  I recall someone else on this forum having the same question previously.

Mine is set for 185 - 195 temps.  As the temp falls with the fans off, the temp routinely falls to 183.  This is because, in my experience, the temps changes are almost always registered in segments of three degrees (sometimes two degrees).  Mine seems to stop at 186 degrees, and when it cools further, it falls to 183.  Anyway, after it passes 185 degrees the low burn kicks on.  After about 5 minutes, mine always goes into high burn.  This is when the best gasification is visualized and the highest heat output seems to be created.  It then kicks back into low burn, I think after the water temp exceeds 190 degrees.  This is a safety measure so the high heat output doesn't lead to "overshooting" the max temperature and potentially start boiling the water.  Hope this helps.  Doctorb

[Dean186]

hay guys i was just wondering if it is normal that mine hardly every goes into high burn.  i got my temp set at 180 is that good or should i turn it up?  when i load my stove up it seems to smoke a little intill it is almost gone is that normal?  it holds temp realy good.  i am burning mostly cottonwood right now i cut it last winter and split it in late july.  i think it is preaty dry now.  it has been 20 25 deg at night here and i fill it about half full about 8 9 olclock and i have little left by 9 in the morning does that sound about right.  this is my first winter with it.  thanks for the info guys

Jason,

I think the cottonwood isn't completely seasoned.  This would cause the initial smoke that you see and the unit not getting to high burn.  When I burn wood with moisture content of 11% and higher I am less likely to get a high burn phase and I do get smoke the first few cycles until it's mostly gone.  When the fire box mostly empties out, then I will see high burn phase.  The furnace is still producing heat, I'm just not getting the clear exhaust and reaction chamber temperatures above 750 degrees (high burn) that we all like to see.  When I burn wood out of a stack that has a measured moisture content of 7% or less (most of it is below 5%) then high burn mode is achieved by the second cycle or sooner.  

The water temperature setting, once your up to operating temperatures, will not help with getting the furnace to high burn phase.  However, since you asked, I have my water temperature set at a low point of 180 degrees and high point of 193 degrees.  A temperature of 193 degrees is as high as I can set it without ever getting a boil over.   It will sometimes spit a little water out of the top when I set the temperature at 194 degrees.  I am at 7,600 feet altitude, so your numbers may vary.

[Dean186]

Mine is set for 185 - 195 temps.  As the temp falls with the fans off, the temp routinely falls to 183.  This is because, in my experience, the temps changes are almost always registered in segments of three degrees (sometimes two degrees).  Mine seems to stop at 186 degrees, and when it cools further, it falls to 183.  Anyway, after it passes 185 degrees the low burn kicks on.  After about 5 minutes, mine always goes into high burn.  This is when the best gasification is visualized and the highest heat output seems to be created.  It then kicks back into low burn, I think after the water temp exceeds 190 degrees.  This is a safety measure so the high heat output doesn't lead to "overshooting" the max temperature and potentially start boiling the water.  Hope this helps.  Doctorb

The is a good description of what I see as well.  The temperature probe on the E-Classics does not protrude into the water jacket as such.  Instead it is measuring temperature inside a cavity that protrudes inside the water jacket.  This design allows for easy temperature probe change out if necessary.  With that said, I do not notice the 3 degrees jumps that you are talking about, but do notice jumps in temperature.  If the furnace has been setting idle for a while between cycles, my temperature will drop a couple of degrees below min set point before climbing.   Dean

[Dean186]

I took a vid of my reaction chamber working the best i have seen in three years since the purchase.  I am now getting gasification within 4 minutes of startup. The key in my situation was drilling the new airholes and making sure the bypass door has a perfectly tight seal (i don't use the bypass anymore) to avoid the airleaks. It's all about good airflow and dry wood.  I hope this vid helps folks that are still having probs with getting their stoves properly setup.  

Ecrane,  Thanks for the video.  When my wife saw it, she said "Who would take the time to make a 5 minute video of a fire in a reaction chamber"  and I said the question is "Who would go and grab a cup of coffee to set and watch it" which is exactly what I was doing and enjoying it.   :D

You are right about "It's all about good airflow and dry wood"  I would like to add coal bed to that list.  It's all about airflow (keep the ash bed below the air holes), dry wood (I have found 7% or less), and a good coal bed.  Dean

[doctorb]

Dean-

Good posts, as always.  What do you think the relationship is between the moisture content of the wood and the furnace deciding to kick into high burn mode?  I can't see how the furnace makes that decision.  I would assume that it is a programing issue, but I could be wrong.

Doctorb

[ronwood]

Doctorb

My thinking is that the stove controller is looking for a predefine temp in the burn chamber after a certain period of time. When the temp does not reach that level it kicks into high  burn mode. Just speculation on my part.

Ron

[Dean186]

Dean-

Good posts, as always.  What do you think the relationship is between the moisture content of the wood and the furnace deciding to kick into high burn mode?  I can't see how the furnace makes that decision.  I would assume that it is a programing issue, but I could be wrong.

Doctorb

Here is how I believe my E-Classic 1400 using the Firestar controller running firmware version 2.51 operates.  From observation, when the reaction chamber temperature reaches 750 degrees, it shifts to high burn mode and will stay there as long as the reaction chamber temperature is 750 degrees or more.  If the temperature drops below 750 degrees it switches back to low burn mode.

I have noticed that on some loads of wood that are not so well seasoned, the temperature just gets to 750 degrees, switches to high burn and the temperature drops and the unit switches back to low burn mode.  It may toggle a couple of times before settling in to either high or low.  If there is a good load of seasoned wood and a good coal bed, the temperature rises to 750 degrees and the unit switches to high burn and with the extra air the temperature climbs on up above 1,000 degrees.  My stove generally operates between a 1,000 degrees and 1,400 degrees with a good load of wood.  The highest reaction chamber temperature I have observed was 1,550 degrees. 

With all of that said and to answer DoctorB's  question.  If the wood has too high of moisture content, it will not burn as hot and the temperature of the reaction chamber is unable to get to the 750 degrees  and therefore will not switch to high burn mode.  That would be one possibility of why the stove isn't getting to the high burn phase and just speculation on my part.

Dean

[Dean186]

I thought I would add the following observation:

The overnight low temperature last night was -2 degrees and it is currently 1 degree outside.  I put a load of well seasoned wood in last night before bed and just went out to check the load and to watch it cycle.  After about two minutes into its cycle, it was in high burn mode and in about another minute the reaction chamber temperature was up to 1,120 degrees.

Sorry, no video   ;D

Dean

[hockeyguy]

I'm a 1st year e classic 2300 owner.
I've found my high burn only comes on when water temp. is 10 deg. below set temp.
So if I'm set at 190, low burn will come on at 185.
If the temp continues to drop all the way to 180, high burn will start.
This can also be accomplished by raising the temp another 5 degrees while low burn is on.
Not sure if this matters but my 2300 is a 2009 model that was bought new in 2010. It was sent back to C.B. to have upgrades(firebrick removed, rods hung from sides, steel added to door, reaction chamber revamped) done this summer.   So far, so good.

[jeff4955]

My 2300 was built in mid 2008(wood only version). Temp set at 185. When it drops 5 degrees the low burn cycle starts and if it drops 10 degrees then it kicks into high mode. I think that the various stoves with different controllers all work a little differently.The wood only models having a very basic controller. All the newer models have had lots of changes to their control features. Thats why there is some confusion in trying to figure out the burn sequences. Hell the new manual that CB sent me says that the low burn mode will not start till the water temperature drops 10 degrees.The sad part is that us first people to buy these stoves were nothing but guinea pigs.I cannot believe the amount of changes that have been made to these stoves in just 2 years. I replaced the fusion combuster this summer after 2 seasons and it was toast. Replaced it with the new version which is quite a bit thicker, 1/4" vers 1/8" steel. This should last longer but I think it will eventually burn out as your still subjecting it to the same temperatures. I installed it myself as my dealer is 73 yrs old. They even changed the refractory block back to using 3 bars instead of 2. My right hand block was in 5 pieces so I ordered a new one and it came with 3 slots. So I had to order a left hand one too because they do not make any for 2 bars anymore. Once I figured out how to run my stove or (how it likes to be run),it works very well. We fill our stove more often, a few pieces 3 or 4 times a day and this seems to help with drying the wood instead of throwing in a great big load all at once. This will help out if you have some wetter wood to use up. But your still better off using as dry as wood as you can get. I have a mixture available ,cottonwood, pine boxelder,elm,ash, oak, hickory. And i try to use my best stuff when it really gets cold. Great video ecrane99.          Jeff

[firechief]

Hey ecrane

Nice video.  I'm wondering how you get away without using the bypass door when loading to relieve the pressure in the firebox?? If I don't let mine stay open for 30 seconds or so, I 'll will serious blowback or "backdraft" as we call it. Haven't burned my eyebrows yet but came close a few times. Thanks

[ecrane99]

I try to load it just before the fans turn on or shortly after.  I have a remote temp guage in my living room,  so I don't have to guess when the temp is down for loading.