Virtues of Ash firewood...

[Cedar Savage]

Beechwood fires are bright and clear,
If the logs are kept a year.
Chestnut only good they say,
If for long 'tis laid away.
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.

Birch and fir burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last.
It is by the Irish said,
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mold,
E'en the very flames are cold.
But ash green or ash brown,
Is fit for queen with golden crown.

Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke.
Apple wood will sent your room,
With incense like perfume.
Oaken logs if dry and old,
Keep away the winters cold.
But ash wet or ash dry,
A king shall warm his slippers by.

by an old unkown English Poet

[r.man]

Not only that but it splits really easily. When I bring my mixed hardwood home I try to sort a pile of pure ash to one side for starting or building up a small bed of coals. Did that yesterday when my coalbed was so small normal wood would put it out. Fine split an ash block and fixed the problem.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Been burning nothing but Ash since 2009, tops from a timber sale.
Have about 2 years left on this wood.

[Al_Smith]

We have a zillion dead ash. On just 6 acres I doubt I get them all down by next summer. I've been at it for two years so far. Not like I was logger getting paid by the board foot but pretty steady.

It's pretty decent firewood not as good as oak but better in my opinion than that sugar maple the Canadians like to brag about.

These EAB dead ash will burn fine fresh felled but they are better after about a year of being split and stacked.

[Cedar Savage]

Kinda sad that in the future there won't be any ash around, & we're seeing the end of it as a commodity....

[JohnW]

All hail ash, king of the firewood.

[r.man]

Dutch elm disease killed most elm here 40 yrs ago. We are now starting to see the occasional full sized elm tree. Hopefully the ash will recover eventually.

[Ohiowood]

So you think the ash will all be gone?

Have a farm with a ton of ash on it, log it?   

[r.man]

I think it is already happening in some places. From what I have read about ash unless you are willing to treat every tree they are going to die. The most common theme that I seem to be reading is that if the ash borer is near your area log all ash that are marketable. Sounds like the rest will be firewood.

[Al_Smith]

On this EAB thing what I have noticed is in some cases the dying tree has propagated growth of new sprouts from the roots. Another thing it seems the borer has bypassed real small saplings probabley because they didn't have enough area to support the larva.

I really think that unless the little green bug adapts to killing off other species starvation might eradicate the pest over time .It won't happen in a few years though ,likely decades .

The Dutch elm thing which hit this area in the 60's and killed off most of them .A few survived at least long enough to start new growth .While they don't get very large they might in time acquire a natural immunity to the malady. 

[Cedar Savage]

I've noticed that in Michigan that the Elm has gone threw another die off again. In the last few years, I've seen lots of giant majestic elms dead out in the middle of a field, or a whole fence row.

[Al_Smith]

I have not seem an American elm any larger than around 15-18 inchs in diameter in decades .My buddy the trimmer did fell one a few years back that was nearly a 4 footer .How it ever lasted that long is a mystery . The few I have in my woods are at best 10 inch if that .A number of saplings though .

I cut the dead every so often .Not the best firewood but that small they don't need split ,thank heavens .

[woodmills1]

most of the elm is other than american

chinease(sp) and or slippery

[Al_Smith]

You could very well be right because slippery and American have very similar leaf patterns .That's what I was going on plus the fact the danged things split hard  .

[woodmills1]

slippery has a very distinctive under bark

yellow and it pulls clean from a twig very easily

makes great marshmallow or hot dog roasting sticks

[Al_Smith]

That might be it .The things die and the roots give way and on the ground it goes .The time I get to them most times there is no bark left just a hard as a rock log .Fact I have a couple nice straight about 6 inchs in diameter 10 feet long I use to side load logs with .Pretty strong wood .Last spring I used two and rolled on about a 6,000 pound oak log .

For that matter the subject being ash it's pretty strong too if you get a nice straight one with no limbs.

[JohnW]

That might be it .The things die and the roots give way and on the ground it goes .The time I get to them most times there is no bark left just a hard as a rock log .Fact I have a couple nice straight about 6 inchs in diameter 10 feet long I use to side load logs with .Pretty strong wood .Last spring I used two and rolled on about a 6,000 pound oak log .

For that matter the subject being ash it's pretty strong too if you get a nice straight one with no limbs.

Well Al, get to them just a little quicker, like when the bark is starting to split.  In the spring, you can find mushrooms (morel) under an elm tree like that.

[Al_Smith]

I don't do so good finding the things .Mrs Smith however has the eyes of an  eagle with such things .She should, the woman can spot a picture a tad off level from 50 feet away .

Actually what few I find seem to be around hickory trees .They're  a fuss any way .It's got to be just right to get a good crop of morels .

[CTYank]

We have a zillion dead ash. On just 6 acres I doubt I get them all down by next summer. I've been at it for two years so far. Not like I was logger getting paid by the board foot but pretty steady.

It's pretty decent firewood not as good as oak but better in my opinion than that sugar maple the Canadians like to brag about.

These EAB dead ash will burn fine fresh felled but they are better after about a year of being split and stacked.

If so, they're right. Dunno either way. Beautiful stuff in the stove- lights readily, good flames, excellent coals. What's not to like? Couple of steps above ash IMHO.

Only downside some see about it: it got named "rock maple" in New England for a reason. Shows no fear of a maul. I'll be delighted to take all you don't want.

[Al_Smith]

Well sir that depends on where the sugar maple was grown. It's a known fact because of the colder climate that the sugar maple in the upper New England states and Ontario is more dense than Ohio .It's also a known fact the white oak from Ohio is more dense than South Carolina.

Our sugar maple burns okay but of the desirable firewoods it rates below ash in popularity .Top to bottom would be hickory ,red or white oak ,ash then sugar maple. Don't get a the  idea I'm talking about silver maple because I know the difference .

Now maybe this so called rock maple resists an axe but our stuff splits easy which by the way the ash does not. I'm not certain if it's baseball bat white ash or green ash.

[beenthere]

It's a known fact because of the colder climate that the sugar maple in the upper New England states and Ontario is more dense than Ohio .It's also a known fact the white oak from Ohio is more dense than South Carolina.

I'd be interested in where these facts are reported. Can you help me out?

[Al_Smith]

Well on that after an extended trip through Google it appears there seems to be conflicting opinions on that subject .

What I did find that among oak trees in praticular some say more rapid growth may increase the hardness and refer to late spring rain fall during the month of June .Others say that slower growth might increase the density .Which came first the chicken or the egg ?

There are approx 600 different species of oak from what I gather .So is South Carolina white oak and Ohio white oak one in the same or just cousins ?

I do know that within this past year a member  from either SC or Georgia had a nice log ,about a 3 footer that showed I believe 125 growth rings .At about the same time I packed one out that had 175 rings .So they either grow slower here or they might be slightly different species .

It could be the mineral content of the soil .

Now I've heard Ontario maple is often prefered over midwest US maple because of the hardness .Are they the same maple ?

On that it's been reported the Ont. maple grow in areas primarily over a granite substratta while in this portion of Ohio it's limestone .Does that make them harder or is it the colder weather ?

From reports they say acid rain which unfortunately does come from the highly industrialised Ohio valley causes the acid rain .The limestone trees can fend off the acidic condition because of a neutrilazation effect .The poor old Canadian trees with the granite just plain wither and die .

[SwampDonkey]

I live in ash country, I mean it grows as abundant as aspen trees. But people want rock maple, beech and yellow birch over any ash. Most will not even buy it, a few will because they haven't used rock maple or beech or they have been cutting ash on a logging job and throw a few sticks on the pickup. :D

Al, where was that survey done? Wasn't up here. :D

[SwampDonkey]

Al, ring size has to do with three factors soil (including water), climate (weather, elevation influenced), and it's life history or environment (ie. was it suppressed for 80 years? or was is dominant for 50 or not over topped for 100 years?) Lots of unanswered Q.

It is true that a lot of maple grows over granite bedrock, but that is not the same forest type as in Ohio. The Canadian Deciduous Forest region is very small compared to the Great Lakes St Lawrence forest type to which you refer to. The Canadian Deciduous is primarily down around the smaller of the great Lakes at the southern tip of Ontario and that is on Limestone. That is where hardwood species are most diverse in Canada. Here in NB our maple forest are stands actually, within the  Acadian mixed wood forest and our rock maple grows on top of calcareous bedrock like shales and dolomite. Heck we export lime by the train loads. And every potato grower spreads it on his fields. Which is odd with a calcareous bedrock, but the plants can't go that deep with roots. Those fields were once sugar maple stands. If you come here and look at the tater fields, all around them are remnant maple stands, line fences often have lots of maples and w ash. and cherry. My cousin used to tap the maples on one of our line fences at the farm, 30 inch maples.

[Al_Smith]

I don't know maybe the ash is different. These ash around here can get huge and upwards of 100 feet tall .Like I said I have no idea if they are white ash or green ash but the danged things are hard as a rock .

Fact as I look up from my computer there is a hundred footer I need to take down that has over 50 foot to the first limb and is a tad over 3 feet at breast heigth .

In the ajoining woods is a close to 4 footer  maybe 40 feet of usable log if it's not hollow .

If you run that stuff through a splitter it snaps apart .With an axe if you can swing it hard enough to bury the head all you'll do is get frustrated trying to get it out .With an 8 pound maul it just bounces like hitting a big rubber tire .

If I'm cutting down to firewood size I can seldom run a tank full of fuel before I need to dress up the chain .Maybe the danged things are petrified or something .

The sugar maple unless it has a big knot or at the junction of a crotch you can drive a 5 pound axe right down the center of an 18" round .Even an old coot like me at 65 years of age .

You have to eat  a good breakfast though .The breakfast of champions ,Wheaties and Budweiser .

[Al_Smith]

Rambling on as usual I found out there are subspecies of Douglas fir .Evidently the coast type west  of the Cascades which grow the largest and the rocky mountain types .From what they say the PNW stuff is supposed to be the prefered .

I know little about any species of pine but I do know that to spend the few pennys more for premium lumber for a building project is money well spent .

Instead of warped and bark ridden less expensive framing lumber you get nice straight dry lumber you can do something with rather than make sled runners .If you're going to build it make it last a couple hundred years .

[SwampDonkey]

white Ash is hard, and in fact if planed it has a lustre. But it still ain't hard as rock maple or beech. In fact when both are dried the same, a piece of rock maple or beech is still heavy in comparison. Ash isn't light like aspen, but when your handling firewood you can see the difference, in fact ash is like the weight of red maple.

Now, as to splitting rock maple, it is pretty tough. I busted the neighbors tools and had to go buy more to bust up the rock maple in the yard and I was splitting clear rounds, not a knot in the stuff i was hand splitting, just a little wedge-like corner in each round that was rotten. I had to score lines so the wedge would penetrate with a chainsaw to quarter the rounds . :D

I would'a invited ya up to show me your splitting prowess, but figured Ohio was a ways away from here. :D :D

[SwampDonkey]

Red cedar does the same, there is the coastal stuff at lower elevations, then ther eis the plateau stuff in Prince George area. It might look flat up there in Prince George, but your closer to the sun. :D

See the same with balsam fir, down south it's Fraser, but for years it was all just balsam to some botonists. Then there is western balsam, which is actually Amabilis or Pacific silver or Cascades fir, take your pick.

[Al_Smith]

Oh about maybe a month ago I had left a few rounds lay where I landed some ash .Maybe 18" in diameter and my buddy had my splitter at the time .I could not even get a steel wedge started in that stuff .Thought I did until it bounced out and smacked me in the knee .Enough of that nonsense ,ouch .

So evidently Canada has better sugar maple and we have better ash which makes sense .We need it for base ball bats .On the other hand I suppose Canada needs the maple for hockey sticks to beat each other about the heads and shoulders . :D

[Al_Smith]

Now beech is hard I'll give it that .I have no idea what they use it for but it's tough enough if it were thick enough you could about use it for armor plate .

Now is Canadian beech or Europian beech harder than great lakes beech ?

[SwampDonkey]

Years ago there was a work shop out in the boonies here, well we're all there I suppose, but they made bowling pins out of beech. What sizable town hasn't got a bowling alley? Around here it's where all the seniors groups and Elks members hang out. ;D

[Al_Smith]

Beech bowling pins ,really .Geeze they would break the bowling ball I'd think .They are usually made of hard maple .

[SwampDonkey]

I think the maple is in the floor. ;D

[Al_Smith]

Well yes that too .BTW the largest manufacturer of bowling alley maple lumber in the world is 30 miles to the south of me .

Copy from the net :Bowling pins are constructed by gluing blocks of rock maple wood into the approximate shape, and then turning on a lathe. After the lathe shapes the pin, it is coated with a plastic material, painted, and covered with a glossy finish. Because of the scarcity of suitable wood, bowling pins can be made from approved synthetics./end


See they called it rock maple too .They must be from Canada  ;)

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, hard maple is the choice of bowling pins from what I have read (and not on the net) But, I know these pins were made of beech, know it as fact. Maybe that's why they are no longer in business. ;D

Also, while I was brushing up on my hard maple studies I also discovered that sugar maple, beech and yellow birch are the choice of charcoal making. Now I don't want to make a fuss about it or rock any foundations, because I know they make it from oak to. :D

Actually, the game of skittles, which is what bowling is descended from is with pins made of beech or sycamore. But that is because it's origin is in Europe.

If you think about it, our hardwoods (I mean the denser species) is dominated by hard maple up here. We have oaks, but by far our hardwood is mostly rock maple. Think of all those those Quebec, NB and Ontario woods they tap for syrup. Quebec being the #1 supplier and NB makes an awfully lot to on crown leased land. I mean those guys have 1000 plus acres of maple woods to tap per lease.

[Al_Smith]

Lawdy can you imagine making maple syrple from a thousand acres .

I dunno maybe in NB they used beech for pins .Never been there let alone bowled there .

As far as charcoal it's reported that Jack Daniels whiskey uses maple for the charcoal filtration of the mix .I can't stand the stuff myself so whatever they use is fine with me .Fact the way it tastes I'd almost think they were using soft coal .

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, one place I know of on the Divide Road has over 3000 acres leased. They use wood to boil it all to and they cut firewood steady. :D

Al, I wouldn't say all the alleys have beech pins here, but that shop made beech pins.

[Al_Smith]

I'm not doubting they made beech pins I just wonder why with all that hard maple around .

I'd about think it would react about as well if the pins were made of cast iron .Hit the head pin ,split the plastic ball which would wobble around and take out the 7 and 10 and leave the rest standing .Bowling for dollars maybe or to sell more bowling balls .

With a bunch  of beech pins maybe they used a bunch of recycled   cannon balls left over from the war of 1812 . Heavy duty Judy .

[SwampDonkey]

We certainly have a lot of beech to, but not abundant like maple. Our farm was mostly maple, beech was scarce. Who knows the premise, maybe they thought they would put it to use because it was dying from beech scale, no idea. In fact, I'd manage for beech if it had a chance. I have been known to save smooth ones on a job when most of the other ones were full of 'cancer'. Folks are cutting ash down because the bugs are killing it, so maybe. ;)

[Al_Smith]

Say I just stumbled on to this and found it interesting .Comparative tables of various hardwoods and soft woods as to strengths .I find it interesting that ash rates near the top in hardness ,tension strength and compressability. http://workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/3_Wood_Strength/3_Wood_Strength.htm

[tyb525]

Ya'll got it all wrong, Osage orange, honey and black locust, and mulberry are where it's at! As long as you don't have to split it by hand!

[Al_Smith]

Yeah that too .As a matter of fact at this very moment I am loading up from a pile of honey locust and pin oak .I found it surprising the honey locust from what I remember from black locust doesn't have the heat in it .I mean it's okay .

Danged raw outside so I had to get some more clothes on to finish my job .30 below is cold allright but so is 10 above with an 18 MPH wind ,brrr .

[beenthere]

The link took me to hickory. Did you mean it to?

Edit:
Sorry for the question Al.
I see the hickory title includes that table with comparative values for the other species.

[Al_Smith]

Well yes hickory is in that table but no it wasn't specificly aimed  for hickory .

For example ash is 15,000 bending strength ,hard maple is 15,800 and hickory is 20,000 .Exactly how that is determined I really don't know .

It seems however there is a direct connection between weight per unit ,density in hardness and btu's per unit .More seems to be better .

Now what surprised me according to those charts was that both ash and hard maple have  slightly more strength than white oak .I would have never guessed that .Then again things like exposure to the weather over long periods were not discussed which of course has nothing to do with strength .White oak would win that match hands down and most likely ash second followed by maple .

[SwampDonkey]

Everything averaged out at 12% oaks (except live oak), sugar maple, beech, and yellow birch all weigh out the same within a couple lbs/ft. Green, oaks are a lot heavier because of higher MC. Live oak is way up there in density compared to the rest, about the same as Osage and will actually sink in water when fresh.

[JuniperBoss]

It is kinda fascinating how much change goes on inside a chunk of wood from when the chain hits the trunk to when the smoke goes up the chimney. Freshly cut juniper will just about make your hand wet when you put your hand on it. Even a small round can be so heavy you almost can't lift it. Then if you let it sit for a week in the summer you notice it gets a little lighter. By four months in the summer it's as light as can be. Can almost pick it up with my pinky :D. But that's softwood.

[Al_Smith]

Cottonwood is the same way and it's considered a hard wood .

[JuniperBoss]

Really How can Cottonwood be hardwood? That's crazy, considering it's very light and is one of the least dense trees around.

[SwampDonkey]

It's deciduous, but not a hardwood. Even basswood is deciduous, not a hardwood. When we say a stand of timber is shade tolerant hardwood, at least here in NB, we mean sugar maple, beech, yellow birch. The birch only being intermediate in shade tolerance. But long lived as the other two. We do not group red maple, basswood, ash, cherry and butternut in that designation although they are not excluded from those stands as they may be physically present but fewer in numbers.

[beenthere]

Cottonwood is the same way and it's considered a hard wood .

Not a hard wood, but it is a hardwood. ;)

C'mon SD, don't add more confusion.

[Al_Smith]

 :D Don't pay any attention to the swamp  mule he'd argue anything ----

Cut and paste --Populus deltoides (eastern cottonwood) is one of the largest North American hardwood trees, /end

So there ha ha ha won again . ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Oh ok, the space makes a difference.  :D

I can tell ya, up here we don't call aspen a hardwood. So, ipso fatso cottonwood. In any dendro book I have, including Harlow, Harrar and White Textbook of Dendrology it is never called a hardwood. It is called an eastern poplar (including the aspens). Further, in my Native Trees of Canada dendro book under the heading Habitat, yellow birch, sugar maple, and beech  "are characteristic trees of hardwood stands in the Deciduous Forest region, Great Lakes St. Lawrence, and the Acadian Forest regions."

I think the confusion comes when we talk about lumber and other products versus the tree. The stuff is grouped hardwood vs softwood to ID and grade lumber. Don't blame me. :D

[Al_Smith]

 :D Well see there you go again thinking like a Canadian .

Okay I'll admit it's soft already and so is basswood if it will make you feel better .Did you know though that southern yellow pine is a hardwood ?

Who knew, started off with ash and ended up with this .Canadian maple and just about everything else except pussy willow which might be next .

[tyb525]

SYP is a hardwood?? I never got that memo. I think you mean hard wood. It is very hard, for a conifer.