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Echo CS501SX carb adjust and muffler mod

Started by Greenerpastures, September 13, 2018, 05:33:32 PM

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Greenerpastures

Hi everyone
I got a new CS501SX and set about examining the muffler.
I did not remove it, just took of the shield, took out the screen
and took out the piece of pipe that sites into the muffler.

I could see the cylinder port looking through the muffler outlet,
so obviously no cat in there that I could see.
So am a bit puzzled as to how they are meeting the epa regulations.

None the less, in an attempt to keep the saw cooler I drilled two 5mm
holes on the forward facing side of the muffler deflector, and filed them to
form a slot of 11mm in height by 5.5mm in width.
The saw is new so I left in the piece of pipe and put all back together.
Saw started as normal, there was a slight hesitation to rev which was there
since the saw came, so I adjusted the low to eliminate that, I let her warm up
and she revved slightly more than she used to, which in my opinion was too high
for a new saw, I had one of these new earlier this year, it came new, and only revved
to about 10,600 rmp when she came, my new one went to 12400 so I adjusted her
back to 11,400, I lost my original documentation on how I adjusted my first CS501SX,
so am wondering if anyone has put a tack on theirs when new, and could advise a sensible
number for this run in period.

This new echo though identical model seems different than my first one, which I since sold,
there was a fair difference between the settings of each of them, so am guessing the shop
I bought of has something to do with this, I know two different mechanics set them up
so this could be the reason.

Does anyone know if there is a limiter on these saws and what it cuts in at,
it certainly does not seem to have cut in on this new saw at 12,400,
the specs say they can go up to max of 13,700 which I certainly wont
be approaching.

Any advise on a good initial setting would be appreciated, so far I have no unburnt fuel
coming out the exhaust, so am quite certain am not extremely rich with the current settings,
I also plan on removing the tube inside the muffler when the saw is run in and am happy
with her, she just barely four-strokes, I remember having trouble getting the last one to four
stroke, thus I got the tachometer.

One other comment regarding the current settings, initially she would bog slightly after
starting, a rev or two and that would be gone, now she certainly doesn't bog as much afer
a 1/8 turn out on the low,
the saw also initially would rev in two steps almost, hold the throttle on full and she picked
up well then it was like a turbo kicking in, this does not happen now, owing to me turning
the H out 1/4 turn and then another small amount which I marked on the body of the saw,
she takes off better now and continues with just a slight kick compared to before.

Any comments on my adjustment welcomed, should I lean her out or leave her until I remove
the pipe from the muffler after a half dozen tanks. I hate moving the screws unless they need
it as they can come loose with too much unnecessary adjusting, and if I find its good idea to
remove that pipe inside the muffler that will help her breath and lean her a little at the same
time through any extra speed she picks up.

Thanks to all.

Greenerpastures

Anyone care to comment, has anyone removed the small insert pipe
from the mouth of the muffler outlet, will taking this out cause trouble
as regards to how things flow, good or bad idea to remove this pipe,
and does one need to re tune after
removing this pipe as the flow should have improved slightly.

Is 11,400 too low for wot out of wood, given 13,700 is max spec.

Thanks

Greenerpastures

Am heading for a record here, over 150 views and no comments,
is my english, or are these saws not so popular.
In any event, she starts like a champ, slight fire on the second pull
with the choke on, two more pulls and she takes off, so I guess my
settings are quite good for initial set up, couple of revs, stop her
barely warm, couple minutes later, starts right up with no choke as 
she should.
Monday I will put her work and adjust from there, my friend has a
Stihl 251 which will be good to compare her with, that thing screams,
wicked throttle response and really steady in the cut, I hope to atleast
keep up.

Feel free with any tips regarding the removal or not of that short pipe
the fits into the muffler outlet, can it be taken out without adverse effects,
the goal being to allow the saw to breath and run cooler.

Hilltop366

Looks like you are breaking new ground but sounds like you have it under control.

Greenerpastures

Hi Hilltop336
Am getting there, am not far away with my settings, and can lean out
when I see whats what.

What am most unsure about is the removal or not of the small tube
that sits into the muffler outlet, Echo must have a reason for it being 
there, this is why am curious as to whether anyone has just taken it
out, and how that worked for them. I just don't want to go to the
work of taking it out, retuning and end up with less power or more heat,
as I have no idea what that tube is for.

Thanks

John Mc

sounds as though you have a god idea on the tuning, but my guess would be that 10,400 or 11,600 out of the wood seems really slow for a saw rated at 13,700.

Personally, I don't go by the tach, I judge by the sound: four-stroking out of the cut that cleans up under load. Madsens has a good write up of tuning by ear, with an audio file so you can hear the sound as they tune it. Go to Madsen's Chainsaw Maintenance page and click on the Saw tuning link. You'll want some good speakers or headphones to listen. Some laptop speakers are too cheap to play the sound clearly enough to hear it well.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

kenskip1

Echo 550 SX Well sir for one this is not a very popular saw. That is why I own a CS550P. (professional) My dealer had a clearance sale and he was literally giving them away. It seems as if the saw frame was larger for the displacement but that it could be fitted with a larger size engine.Anyay I enjoy using mine.Also this saw has a accelerator pump. Like you mentioned the muffler is basically a hollow box. I adjusted the deflector on top of the muffler. It now breathers very well. Anyway they stopped making this model.However I like it. I'm running a stock 325 .050 on a 20 inch bar. It will send the chips flying.
Stihl The One
Stihl Going Strong
Stihl Looking For The Fountain of Middle Age

ladylake


 The 501 and 550 are totally different saw, the 501 is the lightest pro saw you can buy right now. Yes pull that tube out of the muffler, I think Echo puts it in there to get by emissions.. Open up the deflector also as its really clogged up.  Pull the limiter caps and tune so you have good throttle response and the  so it 4 stroke out of the cut and cleans up soon as you lean on it a bit.  Be careful on the high, if tuned too lean it will sound like 4 stroking .  I start way rich then gradually back in until it cuts the fastest in bigger wood.  These are really good saws with real good power after they get broke in good which might take 10 tanks to really wake up.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

John Mc

Steve -

That is an impressive weight for a 50cc saw. The pro-grade Husqvarna 550XP and Stihl 261 are both 10.8# (these are all specs. I have not looked in to what the actual weights are). The price is certainly nice on them as well.

I do find it strange that Echo doesn't list the HP in their specs. Do you know what it is? The 550XP is 3.75 HP, and the 261 is 4.0 HP. (I suspect torque curves might be more interesting, but no one seems to make those easily available.)

Small differences in HP generally do not end up being all that noticeable to me, and are no guarantee of which saw actually cuts better, but still, it's interesting to look. It's curious that Echo chooses not to list that information.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Echo-man1

Old thread, but will add some info.....

I recently bought a new Echo CS-501 SX here in Norway.

The saw runs fine, it had a 16" bar when I bought it, with 0.058" chain.
I also bought a 15" bar (X123-000581) with 0.050" chain (64 DL).
I think this one suited the saw even better, I did put on a new Husqvarna X-Cut chain on it (SP33G 64DL) and it cuts really good.







15-inch bar and original muffler output

I do use the pre-mixed alkylate-gas here, it has 2% fully synthetic two-stroke oil mixed in.
The one I use is from Wilhelmsen Chemicals, and is an naphtha alkylate-butan mix. Only 0.5 % n-Hexan in there according to the manufacturer. So better for your health hopefully....

The only thing I did not like on this saw was the exhaust gas outlet, it is a small metal cover with 4 square holes punched in. It does not directe the exhaust gas away from the operator that much in my opinion, there is a bit too much exhaust turbulence there I think.

So I was looking into making an outlet from the muffler that directed the exhaust forward more efficently.

I took out the original parts, and it looked like this. The muffler was completely empty inside as far as I could see (no cat or anything):



 

The original restrictor tube looked really small, only 0.394" inside diameter.

I came up with this piece from some scraps I had laying around. A pipe with 0.63" outside diameter and inside diameter 0.53". I just cut a V-piece out of it and bendt it into an angle of around maybe 60 degrees:



 

Before I tack-welded it to a flange I made, I made sure it did not come into contact with the chain-brake handle when I pushed that handle hard forward with chain-brake on:



 

Ideally one should have some sort of exhaust high-temp gasket in between the muffler and the pipe flange, but all I had was a very paper-thin sheet of brass-plate which I cut out with a cissor. It looks like it works just fine. I will look for a sheet of high-temp gasket. And also insert a spark-arrestor in there somehow.

I did MIG-weld the pipe and tack-welded the flange to the pipe, but it was tricky to not burn holes in the metal. Maybe it would be better to use acetylene-gas torch and some high-temp copper solder/weld or something like that.



 



 

The noise also did not get almost any louder than before, it was a tiny bit of increase in noise as far as I can tell. I do use the big earmuffs (Peltor Optime III) anyway.

I adjusted the L and H carb needles a bit, it needed a bit counterclockwise (around 1/4 turn out) on them both. The saw they sell here in Europe has no carb limiter caps on them, it has in stead some special screw with a cylindrical head with a flat portion on one side. It's called "Single-D" as I found out, I did purchase an adjustment tool (screwdriver) online.
The saw now runs really good, I am very satisfyed with the performance.

Best regards from Norway


sawguy21

Thank you for the pictures and detailed description. I have sold and owned Echo product and have been impressed with the quality and performance.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Echo-man1

Thank You Sawguy21. Yes, I am really impressed with the Echo chainsaws, looks like very high quality. The CS-501SX is very lightweight and has a magnesium cranckcase also. I also have the small CS-3510ES with 14-inch bar 0.050" chain. This small and lightweight 34.4cc saw is perfect for small firewood-cutting, like 4-8" trees etc.

Echo-man1

One can also use the existing outer lid and cut out an opening at the front, and then knock the 4 square cutouts back so that they are shut. Then it will direct the exhaust flow more straight forward. I did put the outer lid on a small wood block to rest against and used a flat piece of metal rod to knock the cutouts back where they seal up.



 

Then you will have to make a new restrictor tube if you want any more gas flow out of the muffler.
I did make one out of the same type of tube I used in the post earlier. 0.63" outside diameter and 0.53" inside diameter. I did cut it to nearly 2" long, as the muffler had room for this inside. Then you can also use the original spark arrestor.



 

Welding this is quite tricky, as the part on the rear side facing the muffler must be flat all the way to the flange. If not it will not seal any good against the muffler. I did spot-weld from the side facing us on the picture above. And grinded the weld flat when finished.



 

Regarding noise it came out exactly like the one I made earlier, not much increase in noise compared to original. I can not notice almost any difference in noise compared to original. But definetly better "breathing" in my opinion. I believe you will get a tiny bit more hp, and maybe the saw runs cooler as well (not sure about that though.....).

I believe one can also use the outer exhaust lid from the Echo CS-452ESX muffler and cut out the front section a bit, like on the picture below. The cutouts on this lid is better shaped, so it looks like it will direct the exhaust gas more forward away from the operator. I will order one and see if it fits on the CS-501SX muffler, so I don't know until I have it here and have tried it. This lid cost only a few dollars, so it's worth trying.




Echo-man1

Made a video today with the CS-501SX and the muffler output tube that I made, cutting a fresh birch which had fallen due to high wind, around 10-12" in diameter. That wood is pretty soft when it is fresh though... I had warmed the saw up in advance, cutting off some branches first and cut some small 4" firewood-pieces.

With the new 0.050" Husqvarna SP33G 64DL X-cut chain and 15" Echo bar:

Echo CS-501SX 15-inch bar - 0.050" Husqvarna X-cut Chain. Muffler mod (restrictor tube replaced). on Vimeo

Added a second video today, cutting a 14-inch spruce stump for testing purposes:

Echo CS-501SX cutting a 14-inch tree stump - muffler output modified on Vimeo

I like this saw a lot. It runs really good.

Echo-man1

Just fitted the new outer lid on the CS-501SX muffler, the A313-001460 part fitted perfectly.

I just cut out the front port, it was soft thin metal so no problem to cut and file down the edges.

The saw runs fine, not much increase in noise compared to the original.



 









The original part number on the Europe-version muffler is : P021-048660
As far as I can see it is completely empty inside, no cat or anything.
Exhaust gasket is: V104-001780

I found in US the Shindaiwa parts online shop has these parts with the same parts numbers.

DEFdice

Hello,

Just came across this thread. Great job and information @Echo-man1

Has anyone else noticed that the air filter clogs faster after a muffler mod? Mine seems to get dirty much quicker even with a sharp chain (using semi chisel maybe full chisel would be better?) When doing ground work, air filter seems to need to be cleaned every tank of gas.

I was wondering if the increased air intake flow decreases the effectiveness of the "G-force air filtration" feature. My other Echo saws are not muffler modded and the air filters stay cleaner much longer.

Thanks in advance!

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