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Log cutting without sawing?

Started by Francis Nabrink, December 17, 2018, 09:33:49 AM

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Francis Nabrink

I would like some ideas on log cutting. I am starting a business that would require almost 2 milion of logs cut every month, to be used in charcoal production. 
I am reluctant in using a saw, as I think that a lot of wood would go to waste. My plan is to use a straight blade and a hydraulic press. Do you know any place where a can look more about the subjetct?
To be clear, I need to cut the logs, not split it! 


Ljohnsaw

2 Million LOGS or 2 Million BF of lumber?
A straight blade on a hydraulic press is going to split the log, not cut it so I'm not sure what you are hoping for.  I don't think the charcoal will care if the wood is perfectly flat (split) like a board or rough. ;)
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

mike_belben

In small wood a shear isnt a bad option.  In big hardwood its wishful thinking.  The shear knife will need to be sloped to sever grain at an angle, not perpendicular to the grain.  Go play with a hatchet for a few minutes if you dont catch my drift.  

Imagine a conveyor with a sloped guillotine at the end.  Youd probably be miles ahead to start off with a good H frame press.  And i dont mean harbor freight, i mean Dake, et al.  A big one. Or a forklift mast reworked to hold a blade. There are several shear based homemade wood processors on youtube.  But most also partially split to enable the shearing.

The knife will need to be pretty thick plate sharpened good and probably with a hardface edge.  It cant be too wide or itll bow then die. And its gotta be held captive in some pretty stout tracks.  Youll want 4wire hoses, big cylinders a 2stage pump and splitter valve and a gauge on an adjustable secondary relief valve incase the one inside the pump fails! Its the kinda machine that can hurt somebody when it lets go. 
Praise The Lord

Al_Smith

Stop the presses ,hold the phone .Two million logs ? Is that being 16 footers or 16 inches long ?Old story .Henry Ford of model T fame was very frugal .Parts of the model T were made of wood ,obviously which left a lot of sawdust .It was waste and Henry couldn't stand for that.He devised a method to briquette the saw dust and make charcoal .He turned that part of the company over to his brother in law and that company today is called Kingsford . 8)

Woodpecker52

Thinks you need to use laser or aliens to help solve problems.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

Don P

I'm guessing you are trying to chunk the material? If so that is what the wood gas guys do. Try looking up wood gas or producer gas and see what they are using to process their feedstock.

Al_Smith

These little hardwood mills around here might have mountains of saw dust then all the sudden it's all gone .Charcoal,horse bedding I suppose .Kind of like the slaughter houses in Chicago decades ago .They used everything from the pig but the oink.

mike_belben

In my region the little mills burn it and the big ones have it trucked to the charcoal plant when theres enough for a few loads. 
Praise The Lord

Al_Smith

About 20-25 miles south of me ,Hoge Lumber in New Knoxville Ohio has a co-generation plant .Hoge is or was the largest supplier of bowling alley maple in the world .They just burn it with the scraps .
So they say sawdust is the most expensive to make and has the least returns it does have some commercial value .I'm still trying to make sense of the two million logs . ??? That's a lot of charcoal and most people have gas grills these days .

Greyman

We don't know where the OP is, I don't believe.  Most of the underdeveloped regions in the world use charcoal for cooking, leading to deforestation.  Solar, biogas, and high efficiency stoves are helping a lot though.

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

LeeB

Quote from: Greyman on December 19, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
We don't know where the OP is, I don't believe.  Most of the underdeveloped regions in the world use charcoal for cooking, leading to deforestation.  Solar, biogas, and high efficiency stoves are helping a lot though.
When I first read the op I wondered where the guy was from and my first thought was from somewhere that might not have the equipment and resources to waste any materials. I also figured "logs" may indeed be small diameter stock.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Don P

I don't think we'll ever know on this one, looks like he last checked in 2 minutes after posting.

maple flats

2 million logs is huge. But my brother uses 2 different shears to fell trees, one will cut 14" and the other 16". Both require high hydraulic pressure and to shear the harder woods it needs be be very high. He uses a tracked skid steer that does 2700 PSI or a 4x4 Bobcat Tool Cat that does 2900 PSI. At those pressures he has problems shearing the more dense woods at or near the max size of the shear he is using. Both shears can be rotated 90 degrees or more to shear blocks from the stem once on the ground.
To use the same equipment you would likely need more PSI than he has to shear the larger hard wood trees/logs.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Al_Smith

Quote from: Don P on December 20, 2018, 07:21:40 PM
I don't think we'll ever know on this one, looks like he last checked in 2 minutes after posting.
Well sometimes on forums people don't stay too long --just saying

Francis Nabrink

First of all, sorry for disappearing! 

So to be more clear, I'm from Brazil and we use charcoal for iron and steel production, so that means a lot of charcoal made from Eucalyptus.

The ideal size of the log is up to 15" in diameter, that it's about the size that the tree has when cut. 

I would need to cut it on a length os 8".

We need to cut 2million of those 15' diameter x 8" length per month

I have abandoned the idea of using a guillotine and I'm thinking about using a system with a few chainsaws or circular saws.

Qhat do you guys think about it?

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Francis Nabrink

Quote from: Corley5 on January 23, 2019, 11:10:56 AM
Firewood processor :) ;D.
Any firewood processor with multiple blades? 
The productivity must be very hight! 

Southside

If you set up a gang of trim saws like the ones used to trim logs to length at high production mills you could set your entire log as one piece onto a feed chain which would push the log through the trim saws cutting your 8" lengths, however many you want at a time.  A 16'6" log would give you 25 of those cuts in maybe 2 seconds.  This way you could feed losgs to this gang saw as fast as you can load them and have the cuts fall off the back side into a hopper or other take away conveyor.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Francis Nabrink

Quote from: Southside logger on January 23, 2019, 12:24:04 PM
If you set up a gang of trim saws like the ones used to trim logs to length at high production mills you could set your entire log as one piece onto a feed chain which would push the log through the trim saws cutting your 8" lengths, however many you want at a time.  A 16'6" log would give you 25 of those cuts in maybe 2 seconds.  This way you could feed losgs to this gang saw as fast as you can load them and have the cuts fall off the back side into a hopper or other take away conveyor.  
And how about the HP needed for a machine like these?
Lets saw that Im using 5 circular blades with a 32" diameter.
Do you have any ideia on how to calculate the HP needed?

Southside

Most I have seen were in the 5HP - 10 HP range running 480V, 3 phase.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Francis Nabrink

Quote from: Southside logger on January 23, 2019, 12:36:04 PM
Most I have seen were in the 5HP - 10 HP range running 480V, 3 phase.  
For logs with 15 inches in diameter? I have seen those small table timer saws that use tha low HP, but the big ones needed away more dont they?

Southside

Well, you are cross cutting, but maybe species would impact it?
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Francis Nabrink

Quote from: Southside logger on January 23, 2019, 12:47:06 PM
Well, you are cross cutting, but maybe species would impact it?
Like this machine https://www.superaxe.com.au/rex-650-c-saw/
It uses a 70HP motor for one circular blade.

DDW_OR

"let the machines do the work"

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