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Steam Engine / Power Idea

Started by marsofold, November 28, 2019, 03:52:13 PM

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Don P

That thing is a monster :o, fun to watch.

I've been googling around, I think every kid of every age has secretly dreamed at some time of running on steam :D. Mars, go to youtube and search for LynxSteam and get on his channel, boilerwise he's basically done what you are describing I think. His rig is producing ~150 watts from what I could tell, it looks like it would top out at about 500 watts. The pressures I've seen him playing with are around 20-40 psi and he's running a model steam engine that is about 1/4 hp which turns a homemade alternator.

51cub

Quote from: Al_Smith on November 30, 2019, 05:46:48 PM
If it's any interest to steam buffs my buddy who has a Case steamer went to see this one under power early this fall .He BTW retubed his  engine this summer.  --Google 150 HP Case road locomotive .
He did an amazing job with that engine! I've been following him in one of the magazines I get. The research and the physical work makes for great reading

Quote from: Don P on December 02, 2019, 09:25:13 PM
That thing is a monster :o, fun to watch.

I've been googling around, I think every kid of every age has secretly dreamed at some time of running on steam :D. Mars, go to youtube and search for LynxSteam and get on his channel, boilerwise he's basically done what you are describing I think. His rig is producing ~150 watts from what I could tell, it looks like it would top out at about 500 watts. The pressures I've seen him playing with are around 20-40 psi and he's running a model steam engine that is about 1/4 hp which turns a homemade alternator.
Thank you for another steam channel. I never thought David Richards would have any competition on you tube on my computer and yet here we are

I believe in the hereafter, because every time I take two steps into the tool crib to get something I wonder " what did I come in here after"

If nothing else I'm always a good last resort or the guy to hold up as a bad example

Al_Smith

You can find just about anything on the internet if you can find the right search parameters .Which often is not all that easy  .On the subject of steam power about everything from a Case steamers ,triplex marine engines to steam turbines in a coal fired power plant.In my life time I've seen them all in addition to serving on US navy nuke submarines which are amazing but duty and honor  bound I can't talk about them .
I will say only this comparing a nuke U-boat to a big nuke power house is like comparing a Piper Cub to a Boeing 747 .Worked on one of those on the shores of Lake Erie---huge .

sharp edge

On my next go around I'm going to make a steam engine as safe as a v8.

Here how I will do it.
   Get a wood boiler, fill it with oil. take it to 300f-400f

   Find a old hot water heater and take the side iron off.

   Get a high pressure washer.

   Hook up one side of the side iron to the oil, the other side to the high pressure washer and a pipe to a new intake manifold on the escort engine with a one to one timing chain.


After the cut stop the blade, back it up, then make the next cut. Lot safer this way.

The reason they didn't make the steam engine this way, the first  time , they didn't have high pressure washers,   8) 8) 8)

SE
The stroke of a pen is mighter than the stroke of a sword, but we like pictures.
91' escort powered A-14 belsaw, JD 350-c cat with jamer and dray, 12" powermatic planer

Don P

 ;D I had a similar idea one time, using a setup sort of like that to save some spoiled corn.

Al_Smith

They had pressure washers of a sort .Same deal as hydraulic mining .Water is 44  PSI per 100 foot of head  .Start 800-1500  feet above the monitor with an 8" pipe go 200 feet then neck it down to 6" then another and a 5" then a 3" etc ..as the diameter decreases the velocity and resulting pressure  increases.It would blow a stream of high pressure water 200 feet and move boulders .Killed people and washed a bunch of California right down the hill ---but it wasn't portable .
I'm not certain exactly how the calculations are derived but they claim the monitor pressures could reach 5000 psi --trivia ,means nothing to a steam engine .--more next post---

Al_Smith

Moving along this use of high pressure water done by gravity was used some time ago by a group in W Virginia .They started up in the mountains with a big pipe taking water from a mountain stream and necking it down ,about 800 feet of fall .The end was an undershot Pelton water turbine with a 2" nozzle at about 200 psi connected to a 75 HP 3 phase motor . They'd spin it up via the power company and over speed it above slip frequency and it became an induction generator and sold it back to the power company at reduced rates of course . --more trivia still no steam engine-- ;D 

retiredmechanic

my first question would be abt the "air drill" are you talking about something like an impact wrench type drill ? if so using steam would quickly deteriorate the drill by dissolving the rubber seals. next question would be what would the electricity be used for? an automotive alternator produces 12 vdc or 24 vdc and that will charge a battery very easy but it takes about 45 min. at rpm above 2k to charge an almost dead 12v battery  how much wood would it take to keep the water in steam format for 45 min. and how much water would it take for the steam period. 

very interesting project to play around with though, but in my opinion the gain wouldnt be worth the effort for a reliable power source to live by, I had a neighbor that did a similar project only no steam he had a battery bank built a fire used the heat of the fire funneled through a chimney that slowly turned a sml turbine charging the batteries that powered his yard lights for his parties  and the fire doubled as his firepit he was a tinkerer 
gunfire and chainsaws is a Sunday afternoon Lullaby in the country

Cjross73

I'm sure glad to hear I'm not the only one that has these type thoughts,  sometimes I think my lack of time to try them is the Lords way of saving me from myself. I love the idea of a steam powered generator,  i feel like it can work but will take someone smarter than me to figure it out 
LT40, Stihl saw, Old green tractor

Al_Smith

Another thought on steam .I'm not certain where this happened or when .This was an example of a novice operating a steam traction engine .Rolled a big steamer over a low ditch and with a full head of steam .Gravity caused the water to roll off the crown sheet exposing it  and when it leveled out gravity caused it to be covered again .Of course by then it was red hot and the steam pressure went bonkers .It exploded and killed a couple of people .Shortly after that a new law was passed concerning steam engine shows in that state .

Al_Smith

Still another thought .The standard pressure cooker has a weighted pressure relief that limits the pressure to 15 PSI which equates to 250 degrees of heat .
On rare occasion those weights would fall off throwing themselves right through the roof and blowing the contents of the cooking device right behind them.That's only a small device at 15 PSI .Imagine what could happen had it been a large steam engine at 75 PSI . 

Erik A

I know not the same as you are proposing but the best mythbuster episode was them blowing up a hot water heater ( search youtube) 

Maybe a type of pelton wheel and skip the air drill.

I read something like that using a flat plate mounted to the alt. with luvers in it

peakbagger

The Cog railroad in NH still has a few home built steam engines running to the summit of the mountain. They are coal fired. Most of their rolling stock has been switched to Diesel electric rigs (also hand built using purchased diesels) they mix in a bit of pure biodiesel with their dyno diesel to make it sound green. They switched to the Diesel rigs as they can run more passengers to the top but run the steamers in the mornings for steam buffs. Look around on You Tube and there are lots of videos. The news rigs are equipped with camouflage to make them look sort of like and old steam engine. Pre Covid they had a steam day where all sorts of steam powered equipment showed up.

Its not that hard to make a steam turbine but its hard to get them efficient. Several sawmills in Maine put in steam turbines about 10 or 15 years ago I know of three of them and at least two never meet their performance guarantee.

If you want to do the math, the maximum efficiency of a steam cycle is a pretty simple formula. eff- 1-(T cold/T heat). T cold is the exhaust temperature, T hot is the steam temperature going in. Its called the Carnot cycle efficiency. This is the absolute best highest efficiency irregardless of friction leaks and losses.

Maine Wood Pellets put in an Organic Rankine Cycle power plant several years ago. These plants are real popular in Europe pellet mills. Instead of boiling water they use refrigerant that boils at lower temperature.

moodnacreek

Tinkering with alternate energy is a great hobby. People have been fooling around with steam for a long time. Then there is water power. One problem is that most of us where born with a switch and a meter on the side of the house. How many hours a day do you want to work to make power and clean up the mess at the end of the day?

Don P

Quote from: moodnacreek on January 12, 2021, 07:24:37 PMHow many hours a day do you want to work to make power and clean up the mess at the end of the day?


It sure makes you realize what is involved in the tremendous amount of power at our fingertips that we take for granted. I just finished watching a course on Greek and Roman technology and it is amazing what they did with so little available power. They utilized just 4 sources of power. Animal, Man, water and wind. Wind was used exclusively for sailing, water almost exclusively for grinding grain. Which left animal and human, which is only capable of about 1/10 hp sustained. And yet look at the things they built and did.

Hero of Alexandria did invent what is commonly called the first steam "engine", late 200's AD. It is the spinning sphere connected over a kettle of boiling water with 2 angled exhaust jets often shown in drawings. Unfortunately the museum of Alexandria, a great think tank of the regions greatest minds that had operated for several hundred years was burned down and those men were scattered during that period and his work was never advanced for about 1500 years, what a loss!

J-holden3285

Quote from: marsofold on November 28, 2019, 03:52:13 PM
Saw a you-tune video where a guy used a 12 volt pump to feed water into a heated copper coil to make a rather impressive steam cleaner. 6" piddly water flow until he heated the coil with propane, then a continuous 5 foot gusting steam output! Thought that the same setup heated with wood might be able to use the steam flow to power an air drill cranking an alternator for power (use a small percentage of the power to run the pump). Other than corrosion issues that I see as fixable, might this be a safe easy way to use wood heat for electricity?
In the late 80s I learned how to separate hydrogen from water I was in my teens and didn't know how dangerous it was I thought I could build a furnace to burn I'm very lucky that I'm here today lol but then I changed my ideas to steam I converted a old 8 hp Briggs to run on steam it actually worked I have thought about revisiting the idea again now that I'm old and understand steam concept a little better but I think steam has a place If you  have the resources and I think it's safer than people want to admit if you set your safety up and test them as you go.

Walnut Beast

Bring it on Steam!! The mighty Case 150 pulling 44 bottom plow.

https://youtu.be/5xDj45zF-l0

bigblockyeti

^ That's way cool but looks like a logistical nightmare when it needs to be moved somewhere, heck, even driving it a couple miles away would take much time and some serious planning.

DMcCoy

there is research into a 6 stroke diesel/steam engine.  Uses the latent heat from the diesel cycle to make the steam.
Made me curious if a guy could use a small gas engine, with diferent valving and water injection.  The thought led me to realize I was thinking perpetual motion.  BUT - could a person use the cooling fins and firewood to heat the cylinder and have water injection like a diesel for the steam.
Sounds so simple I would suspect it has been tried.

Walnut Beast

What is amazing is how many technology and invention concepts were from years and years ago before we where around and they have been perfected. And people don't realize it and think it's a new technology 

Al_Smith

Generally  speaking nothing is brand new it's more that a known idea becomes revisited and refined .Like wind generators ,they 've been around since the 20's on the old Delco systems .They go back to the windmills used in colonial days and maybe further back .
Another example are the huge engines used by the steel mils in Pittsburgh, steel city .Prior to WW1 these great mills needed huge amounts of electrical power more so than the electric companies could supply at the times .Allis Chalmers for one made enormous horizontal cylinder engines that ran on the flammable gas that was a byproduct making  steel .It was called "producer gas " .In essence it was free .As things evolved it became more cost efficient to use other methods .

Al_Smith

Throughout history people have always looked for a free or inexpensive source of power usually based on heat .Rudolf Diesel used coal dust on his early engines .Thomas Edison is credited with inventing the rotary concrete kiln which also used coal dust .History left out the fact  it was my great grand father Fred Smith who actually invented it .Later in life great grand dad also owned American non gran brass that  made the engine bearings for the Spirit of St Louis . 

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