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Author Topic: Wavy cuts need help please.  (Read 3971 times)

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Online Southside

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2021, 11:37:30 PM »
On a sawmill HP will determine how fast your band is turning when you strike the solid metal log backstop. Torque will determine just how much of that backstop you saw through after all the teeth are broken off the band. 

HP is important, but torque is KING.
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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2021, 02:30:21 AM »
HP and torque is something I really never understood. A horsepower is a horse's ability to turn a crank at a given distance from it, stemming from when they used to walk them around in circles driving a crank, for a grain mill or whatever, and a Newton metre is the ability of a Newton of force at 1m on the crank... Isn't it like saying which is better miles or kilometres lol.

Anyway. Torque. You want staying power for milling not acceleration or top end, like they seem to measure with HP.

Maybe you're problem is as simple as that you're supposed to be running it down in the late teens.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2021, 06:15:55 AM »

 You could sure run your engine around 2000 RPM  but the blade  speed is still going to be way too high.  Steve
Timberking B20 15000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline tacks Y

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2021, 08:25:54 AM »
Tacks, on the engine data plate, it is 2004 model B3.3.  I dont see the 4 anywhere on it.  The only curve I found was on a newer year model engine with direct injection.  Which do you think would be more important torque or hp?


I think the 4 was just a cly count, some show it but most just say B3.3. This is the motor I have but non turbo.  The sheet I am looking at is a 2007, mechanical injection so should be yours. 

Offline Machinebuilder

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2021, 09:14:15 AM »
HP and torque is something I really never understood. A horsepower is a horse's ability to turn a crank at a given distance from it, stemming from when they used to walk them around in circles driving a crank, for a grain mill or whatever, and a Newton metre is the ability of a Newton of force at 1m on the crank... Isn't it like saying which is better miles or kilometres lol.

Anyway. Torque. You want staying power for milling not acceleration or top end, like they seem to measure with HP.

Maybe you're problem is as simple as that you're supposed to be running it down in the late teens.


Horse power = torque X RPM / 5252

the way I look at it is

If you have an engine that develops a lot of torque at a low RPM the horsepower comes in early (ex. a turbocharged Diesel)

If you have an engine that develops a lot of horse power at a high RPM the low RPm torque is usually low. ( small displacement naturally aspirated gas)

This is why an electric motor has a lot of advantages, the torque curve starts out at a low RPM and they are usually designed to run at a fixed RPM which also is low. A DC series wound motor (Starter motor) is a good example, its max torque is 0 RPM but that is also 0 HP because its not turning.

If you need to have the horsepower to maintain your RPM. That's why a bigger engine can run the mill faster.

on my LT15 with the 15hp Kohler, it barely drops engine speed with a 6" red oak cant, when I'm trying to cut 20" I'll lose 200-400engine RPM because there isn't enough HP for the load.
Dave, Woodmizer LT15, Husqvarna 465 and 435, Bobcat 751, David Brown 770

Offline ladylake

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2021, 09:51:12 AM »
 
 Did you ever get the blade speed slowed down to where it should be.  Steve
Timberking B20 15000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline kelLOGg

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2021, 07:14:36 AM »
There hasn't been much said about band tension. In the opening post the tension is stated to be:
"I have run tension anywhere between 4 and 7k psi"

Is this the tension on the actual band or a hydraulic gauge reading? My Kasco bands are 0.045" thick and 1.25" wide and according to the manufacturer I should have a tension of 20,000 psi on the actual band and I set it according to this. (0.045" x 1.25" x  20,000psi = 1125 lbs of force on the band itself.) If you are tensioning the band from 4 to 7K psi you are way under tensioned. 


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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2021, 09:54:47 AM »
timberking is tensioned on the hydraulic gauge to 1200 to 1500 psi.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Rhodemont

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2021, 10:17:04 AM »
Completely trashed most of a nice EWP log on Friday afternoon with wavy boards. Kept at it longer than I should have thinking it would self correct.  Saturday morning went out put a new band and band belts on the mill, adjusted the band tension and used my pressure pen to adjust the drive belt tension.  Amazing what proper set up will do, everything ran as nice as can be.
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Offline MSTireman

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2021, 12:15:01 PM »
Thanks for all the info guys.  Turned out the majority of my problems were dull blades.  My dad and I haven't been at this long and didn't know the difference between a dull and sharp blade.  We have tried 3 brands and so far the munks blades are doing a good job.  I cut a little with a cooks blade saturday and it did ok but had a tooth that was set wrong or got damaged during shipping.  It was some of the roughest finish on any boards we have cut so far and did have some wave in them also. So far, the munks blades have had no wave at all.  I/ve got 5 more of the cooks and munks and will cut some more next weekend and see which ones do the best.  I have a cooks sharpener and setter coming also and this will be the next thing we have to learn is how to correctly sharpen out blades.  I've been in touch with a forum member and he has a tension meter and is gonna bring it one day to see what the tension vs hydraulic gauge is so I know ballpark how much pressure to apply to my bands. Thanks again for the time and replies.


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