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Reflective insulation

Started by okie, January 13, 2009, 09:53:18 PM

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okie

Anyone ever use reflective bubble insulation? Saw some at the hardware store, label says it blocks 95% of reflective heat and blocks most of conduction. It is 5/16" thick and is comprised of a layer of foil, layer of polyethylene, and layer of bubbles.  It says the foil blocks reflective heat and the bubbles block the conductive heat.  The brand I saw was Refletix (? SP).
The package didnt state a R value but clerk says many local contractors have started using the material and several homeowners swear by it, they used to onlyy special order but have started stocking the product.
The price was quite a bit lower than the fiberglass insulation.
Striving to create a self sustaining homestead and lifestyle for my family and myself.

scsmith42

Okie, I've used it quite a bit, and learned that it is quite effective in certain situations, but not all.Z 

It workes very well for keeping heat in (reflective and emissive), such as what you'd need in an oven.  Another example would be keeping cold or hot air inside a duct, well cold or hot.

It does not work well at all for keeping "passive" temperatures in or out.

My kiln is built inside a steel container, and it works quite well to keep the heat inside the kiln.  On a cool day, if it' is 135 degrees inside the kiln the outer metal skin will be whatever the ambient outdoor temp is - say 70- degrees.

A good spray foam insulation is probably better in terms of overall effectiveness.  I have some insulated containers, and when it's cool at night they will stay fairly cool during a hot day (passive temp does not migrate through the foam insulation).  However, in my kiln (if it's not in operation) it will be just as hot or cold inside as it is outside - ie the passive temp passes right through the insulation.

The brand that I use is called Tekfoil (purchased from farmtek.com).  I also use it underneath concrete slabs to serve both as a vapor barrier as well as an insulation to reflect heat from the radiant heating in the slab back up into the building.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Paso

It works great on the ground when installing radiant floor heat forces the heat up.

I was attaching photo but the site doesn't accept Jpegs

beenthere

Welcome to the forum, Peso.

What site doesn't accept jpegs?   This one does.  :) :)

Go to help button above to learn to post. It is easy, and now we have the java uploader that resizes for you.

Seems to me bubble insulation would be somewhat temporary...that is until the bubbles are no more. I'm not a believer in plastic holding up for very long.   ::) ::) ::)
But until that happens, suspect it is good insulation.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Paso

105-0501_IMG.JPG.
You cannot upload that type of file. The only allowed extensions are xlsx,txt,doc,pdf,xls,wks,avi,mov,mpg,html,htm,shtml,kmz,eml.

This is what I got when attempting to attach my jpeg

Radar67

Welcome to the forum.

Pictures can't be attached to a post. They have to be loaded to your gallery here on the forum, then linked to. The help section will cover the steps to set up the gallery and upload the pictures.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Paso

Sorry  Most of the forums I belong to allow the pictures to be attached to the post.

That usually helps the topic along :)

okie

Thanks for the responses. I just had'nt seen the stuff before and was curious about it.
Striving to create a self sustaining homestead and lifestyle for my family and myself.

Paul_H

Quote from: Paso on January 14, 2009, 08:11:32 PM
Sorry  Most of the forums I belong to allow the pictures to be attached to the post.

That usually helps the topic along :)


Like this..






or this?





That would be really cool,I'll ask Jeff if he can do some tweeking with the software that would let us have pics in posts :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Tom Sawyer

Quote from: Paul_H on January 14, 2009, 10:50:29 PM
Quote from: Paso on January 14, 2009, 08:11:32 PM
Sorry  Most of the forums I belong to allow the pictures to be attached to the post.

That usually helps the topic along :)


Like this..






Where did you find the 2 headed deer?

scsmith42

Hi Paso - welcome to the FF!  I recently poured a slab with radiant heat and the bubble insulation, and can post a photo.

Here is a photo of the slab pour for my new shop.  The white material underneath the wire and tubing is the Tekfoil radiant barrier insulation.



Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

stonebroke

Is that all you used or did you put foam under it also?

Stonebroke

scsmith42

SB - I just used the Tekfoil, because my intention was to reflect all of the heat upward into the building and minimize the heat loss into the ground. 

After compacting the soil, I placed a few inches of gravel and then put the Tekfoil on top of the gravel (the tekfoil also serves as a moisture barrier).

However, I'm in North Carolina and we don't get the depths of freezing like our Northern Cousins.

If I had a situation where I had some extremely cold ground underneath my building, I would consider using styrafoam as a thermal break and to minimize passive cold transfer, with tekfoil on top to reflect the heat upward into the building instead of downward into the foam.  The foam would keep the cold out, and the tekfoil would keep the heat in, and my utilitiy bills should thus be minimized.  If the building was not going to be heated, I would skip the tekfoil and only use the styrafoam.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

stonebroke

So you have no thermal break around the perimeter of your shop?

Stonebroke

Don_Papenburg

I was informed by some radiant heat gurus that a radiant barrier has to have an air gap to work properly (most efective) Then it needs some sort of good Rvalue insulation to help out .   
I put 2" of extruded foam  under my concrete over a visqueen moisture barrier.  Then my pex and then rebar and wire.    Covered it with a bit of concrete
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Paso

Okay I see I have to upload the picture to the gallery that I create then attach it to my post.

I have usually attached it directly from my computer.

It's nice to be new to the site and get so many nice welcomes.

What was with the warning I got saying only these files can be  uploaded?

scsmith42

Quote from: stonebroke on January 15, 2009, 12:47:18 PM
So you have no thermal break around the perimeter of your shop?

Stonebroke

Not on the outside - it doesn't get that cold here (the ground rarely freezes). 
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

stonebroke

Boy are you lucky  or maybe just smart enough not to live up here.

Stonebroke

woodbowl

About the color silver. The ability of the color silver to reflect heat in the broad daylight is understandable, but it befuddles me that a mere color, (silver) sealed inside a dark wall claims to do the same. Does anyone know the technical reasoning for this?
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Ianab

Quote from: woodbowl on March 07, 2009, 10:01:41 PM
About the color silver. The ability of the color silver to reflect heat in the broad daylight is understandable, but it befuddles me that a mere color, (silver) sealed inside a dark wall claims to do the same. Does anyone know the technical reasoning for this?

Well light doesn't go through walls, but Infra-red light (heat) can. So by relfecting it back into the room, it acts as insulation. Every object thats above absolute zero radiates infra red energy, even the internal parts of your wall.

So anyway, another layer of insulation inside the wall will increase the total insulation value of the wall.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

bandmiller2

Save the scraps of that thin foil insulation and make disposible insoles for inside your work boots.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

SPIKER

That PEX install looks good for the Mesh & stand offs, but looks like the PEX is too far apart for the northern climates. I'm told in Ohio you need 12" spacing, and 2 rows around perimeter 6" from outside walls.   This was told to me by guy who does the installs a lot.   
I got some info from a company who also has a 1/4" thick layer of foam built into the foil bubble stuff.   Unfortunately that is in my email which crashed and is all gone.. :( thank you YAHOO.

I bought the foil bubble bubble poly for under my slab, but I'm putting it between a layer of 1" white styro and /4" blue styro sandwich.  (plastic/poly vapor barrier, 1" white styro, foil side down bubble bubble poly, and then 3/4" pink/blue styro, mesh on chairs PEX-AL-PEX and then 5" concrete with fiber in 6000 mix.) this is what my floor is going to be made up of. I bought the PEX-AL-PEX and the fittings & the "Foil Bubble Bubble Poly" from Farmtek a year or two back. just prior to the prices all going up.   the pricing is all back down now, reason I didn't get it in was I still had to have the outdoor pipe run prior to doing the floor. time money and loss of job kept the pour from happening for a couple years almost now...   This other foil bubble foam stuff looks good I have a sample from "PRODEX" http://www.insulation4less.com that will be going into my boots for this next winter!  thanks for that IDEA! lol should be just enough if I cut the stuff just right...;)

Mark M
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

moonhill

I would place a caution on using the foil face bubble wrap as an insulator.  It needs an air space to work properly.  Squished under a slap leaves no air space, a vapor barrier, sure.  You can't beat 2" of foam under the slap, yes it cost more but you get what you pay for.  scsmith made a great point in his kiln being the same temp out side as in when the kiln is not running.  And being in the a warmer climate he will get away with it.  In the north it would be best to use the foam.   

I run pex on a 1' grid also and rebar for a floating slab.  After you get done with the pour the wire mesh is usually on the bottom of the slab not in the middle where it belongs. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

OneWithWood

For the pured floors of the greenhouses we used 2" styro underneath the slab and on the sides of the slab.  A lot of heat is lost out the slab sides if it is not insulated.  The pex was installed on 12" centers using two overlapping rows.  The greenhouse stays nice and toasty during the winter.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Engineer

I put a product under my basement slab that is thin foam on both sides with a layer of foil in between.  I put wire mesh on top of that, ran my tubing on 12" centers, and ziptied all the tubing to the wire, and then poured concrete.  My floor stays nice and warm, it actually heats my entire house except for two second-floor bathrooms.








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