The Forestry Forum

Other topics for members => General Woodworking => Topic started by: 21incher on August 29, 2020, 08:07:59 PM

Title: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on August 29, 2020, 08:07:59 PM
I am starting to rebuild my CNC router. It was made from scrap I had at the time and worked good for about 500 hours but now the light duty bearing system is wearing and I am upgrading to a water cooled spindle that is quite heavy so time to rebuild it. I decided to go with a water cooled spindle to reduce noise with vfd speed control and also allow it to run at lower speeds for aluminum and plastic. Purchased the lowest cost one I could find on amazon and made a video about starting it up. It is a 3 bearing 80mm with ER-20 collet for 1/2" or smaller bits with a matching 220 volt VFD. I know many have interests in CNC routers and thought it may be good to start a thread so others can share info about what they use for spindles on their machines and any pros or cons about different types of VFDs and spindles.
This is the setup I bought on Amazon for under $250 including the mount and I just can't believe how quiet it is with basically zero run out on the bit shank.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_5581.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1598745481)
 
This is a link to the video about them
First Look, Wiring, And Startup Of The Lowest Cost 2 2 kw Spindle And VFD On Amazon - YouTube (https://youtu.be/pYvKI7fF4yQ)
Hopefully others will kick in about theirs and we can help each other with integration and questions others have.
Title: Re: Low Cost Chinese 2.2 kw spindle and VFD for a CNC router
Post by: sawguy21 on August 29, 2020, 09:09:23 PM
Sorry my friend. I lost interest when I saw the title, I am fed up with that ****.
Title: Re: Low Cost Chinese 2.2 kw spindle and VFD for a CNC router
Post by: 21incher on August 29, 2020, 09:55:17 PM
I would rather buy affordable items like this then do without. I don't have 4k to waste on toys that I can buy for $200.00 to use as a learning tool. I bet all the electronics in your car and home are assembled with Chinese parts along with the appliances right down to the light bulbs. Don't like it but these are the norm for low end CNC routers and mills that most use in an affordable price range. 
Title: Re: Low Cost Chinese 2.2 kw spindle and VFD for a CNC router
Post by: low_48 on August 29, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
A friend of mine had to remotely mount a cheap VFD as the electrical noise made his controller loose some steps. One axis would creep as he cut, until he mounted the VFD over on the wall instead of on the chassis of the machine. Just a heads up for you.
Title: Re: Low Cost Chinese 2.2 kw spindle and VFD for a CNC router
Post by: 21incher on August 30, 2020, 04:20:13 PM
A friend of mine had to remotely mount a cheap VFD as the electrical noise made his controller loose some steps. One axis would creep as he cut, until he mounted the VFD over on the wall instead of on the chassis of the machine. Just a heads up for you.


Thanks I will do that. I am a little worried about placing the 400hz spindle cable in the cable chains and plan on using a braided shield over it grounded back to the VFD. I read you should not use the ground on the spindle because it will create a ground loop.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on September 17, 2020, 10:09:34 PM
No one seems to be interested in the low cost spindles so I decided to turn this into a thread about building the CNC router it will be used on with some parts from my old one that was built from junk I had laying around and many new items. This one will be 30" x 50" cutting area that is the largest machine that I have room for. This is a video about getting started and finding a frame. 
CNC Router Build Part1 Tearing Down The Old One For Parts And New Base - YouTube (https://youtu.be/4aMdNMKgBgs)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6038.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600394740)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6040.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600394741)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6037.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600394738)
 

Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD CNC router Build
Post by: rastis on September 18, 2020, 12:29:22 PM
I just started looking into building a CNC router table for flattening slabs. Havenít done much searching yet, but looking to do a 4x8 table. What do you have for parts sources?
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on September 19, 2020, 08:13:20 AM
I just started looking into building a CNC router table for flattening slabs. Havenít done much searching yet, but looking to do a 4x8 table. What do you have for parts sources?


I have been trying to use parts from Amazon for this rebuild.  It's a good test to see how they last and work for my subscribers and is easy for them to buy the same parts for builds if they pass my testing.  I built  a larger plasma  table  and found  many of the parts on Ebay for that. Gecko has good motor  drives and 8020 has really  nice straight extrusions.  It all really depends on your budget and the accuracy you want from it plus the tools you have available for the build.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on September 30, 2020, 08:11:51 PM
Just another update video. Worked out the spindle cooling using the 35 pound aluminum extrusion for my gantry. That spindle is amazingly quiet.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6247.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1601510996)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6249.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1601510998)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6245.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1601510997)
 
CNC Router Build Part2 Finishing The Base And Prototyping The Spindle Cooling Scheme - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Vl3WoQeaHOg)

Machining the main parts now.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD CNC router Build
Post by: JRWoodchuck on September 30, 2020, 11:21:18 PM
Wholly moly your skill set is impressive! Where your from hillbilly redneck must mean something completely different than where Iím from!
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on October 01, 2020, 08:29:54 PM
Wholly moly your skill set is impressive! Where your from hillbilly redneck must mean something completely different than where Iím from!


It's the values you live by. There's a story  behind  my YouTube channel name. About  15 years  ago I  was laid off from my last job after  being  replaced  by H1B Visa workers.  I got mad and dropped out of the workforce.  After  being  Unemployed for a while  my wife started  calling things that I  made Unemployed Redneck Hillbilly Creations and when I  started  a YouTube channel years later I used that for the channel name. Looking  back now it gave me lots of time to learn new things. 
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on October 18, 2020, 09:43:21 PM
Well made a little more progress. Started to machine parts and a little assembly. Decided to go with a Masso controller and it's on the way from Australia. Looks like my cooling scheme is going to work.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6367.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603071633)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6370.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603071635)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6375.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603071635)
 

CNC Router Build Part 3 Maching Parts Starting Assembly And Selecting Controller - YouTube (https://youtu.be/uhTndHiPOdc)
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on October 26, 2020, 06:48:36 PM
Got a mini Ortur 3018 CNC router to play with until the build of this one is finished. My wife wants this one for making buttons when the big one is finished. Not making much progress on the build right now. Reading the 400 page Masso manual to figure out how to hook it up.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6381.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603752302)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6456.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603752302)
 
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on October 29, 2020, 11:38:06 AM
It has finally started coming to life. The Masso is so easy to set up.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6484.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603985799)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6474.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603985799)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6487.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1603985801)
  

This is the latest video 
CNC Router Build Part 4 First Look At The Masso Controller And It's starting to move - YouTube (https://youtu.be/6Rf7sWRYPpw)
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on November 14, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
A little more progress. Electrical box done. Have the Masso fully controlling the VFD and X & Z axis's. Have the rotary axis working along with homing. That Masso controller is awesome. Found a T10 belt on Ebay to sink the Y leadscrews so that is what is left along with finishing up the tables.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6553.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1605412675)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6551.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1605412673)
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_6570.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1605412928)
 
CNC Router Build Part 5 Control Box Wired Masso Controlling The VFD And Homing - YouTube (https://youtu.be/x0HCHe1mOf8)
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 15, 2020, 01:25:36 AM
Looking pretty good 👍
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on November 15, 2020, 08:11:54 PM
Looking pretty good 👍


Thanks.  Hopefully it will be finished  this week and I can get going  on Christmas presents. 
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: Crusarius on November 15, 2020, 09:28:55 PM
How did I miss this thread? Definitely looking forward to watching the videos when I have more time.

Anybody want to borrow a couple of rodents? They sure do impede getting work done.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on January 28, 2021, 07:01:33 PM
I haven't updated this in a while but it's working good now. Here is a final video about finishing it up.
CNC Router Build Part 7 Closed Loop Stepper Final Wiring Switch Panel Spoil Board Surfacing - YouTube (https://youtu.be/qkuLOvWYiq0)
You definitely learn a lot taking on something like this.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_7461.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1611878396)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/IMG_7453.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1611878390)
 
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: Crusarius on January 29, 2021, 07:11:46 AM
you find you like having the sides? I have been toying with open vs closed sides for a while.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on January 29, 2021, 10:30:15 AM
you find you like having the sides? I have been toying with open vs closed sides for a while.


I put them there to keep dust off the slides with plans for sheet metal outer covers with bellows to close the slides in. Turns out with the water cooled spindle there is no air blowing the dust around  so the collector gets almost all of it. I just spray the slides and screws with garage door screw dry lube and haven't seen dust build up so I don't  think they are really required if you use dust collection. I also figured  they would slow down things like flying knot parts that come loose. 
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: Crusarius on January 29, 2021, 10:35:15 AM
my plan for mine is going to be a interchangeable heads for router, plasma cutter, and anything else I feel like playing with :). so I will get into all sorts of other issues. The side shields probably will make sense to keep the linear bearings from getting slag on them.

Thanks for the insight.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on January 29, 2021, 11:38:39 AM
I put them on my plasma table and they don't help. It's in a 30 x 40 x12 ft tall shop and everything in there is covered with the fine black abrasive powder it creates.  A water table is the best way to catch  that but then you have to deal with hazardous waste. I used THK slides with  double seals that still work good with  constant greasing and wiping so don't  skimp on your slides because  that dust is very abrasive and really makes a mess. Slag is no problem because it's  heavy enough that the air can't blow it around and it all exits the bottom of the cut.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: Crusarius on January 29, 2021, 01:49:38 PM
I was hoping for a downdraft table. Direct vent outside.

So are you happy with the 2.2kw or would you go bigger? be awesome to be able to run a 3-6" surfacing bit for doing the large slabs.
Title: Re: 2.2 kw spindle and VFD With A Masso Controller CNC router Build
Post by: 21incher on January 29, 2021, 05:57:47 PM
I would not go bigger for a toy to play with in my shop. 2.2kw is about 3 hp and anything larger would require a more rigid machine plus cutters like that are in the $500 range and meant for production use. Also input power requirements to run it goes up considerably. I have more time then money so speed to surface an occasional slab doesn't mater to me.  If you build a big machine size the spindle and speeds for chip loads given by the cutter manufacturer.
I built a downdraft table on my plasma cutter but did not put the pipe through the wall to be able to use it after researching the consequences of blowing a cancer causing substance outdoors and homeowners insurance regulations. There are some affordable weld fume suckers I may look into someday.