Started on a new router sled. My old one was just slapped together scrap wood and only good for 4 ft x 10/4.
I need one good for 80 inches x 18 inches x 4 inches. Decided to try cheap Chinese rails and extrusions to keep it light so I can hang it from the ceiling to store when not in use. Starting out manual but next winter I'll add motors to make it arduino controlled with steppers.
Starting to get some parts together.
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Cutting down the cheap 2020 extrusions that will support the board and offer tie down and shim points.
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Waiting for some hardware to start assembly.
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I am really surprised by how straight and stiff the 2200mm rails are that I got on amazon for under $200.00 with tax delivered. The best is yet to come.
Watching smiley_thumbsup
Also watching.
I know this build will be top notch.
My Son Wild Bill just made one that does 9'x just over 4ft.
Been fighting a heavy warp in this slab.
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Wow that sled would take up my whole shop. Is that a top for an island?
conference room table
Already looking good 21incher!
Raider Bill, I like the design for where the router goes, is that stick a handle to move the router back and forth?
Quote from: aigheadish on March 08, 2022, 08:59:49 AM
Already looking good 21incher!
Raider Bill, I like the design for where the router goes, is that stick a handle to move the router back and forth?
Yepper. He just stands there, moves his arm back and forth instead of bending over.
Hmm... Granted, I've only used my sled once but I felt like I really had to hold it down to keep it from jumping around and stuff. Is that not the case? I was surprised with the amount of work it took me to grind off some wood, but it sounds like I may have been overdoing it. I'm also pretty new to routers in general.
He says the weight of his 2hp router holds it down.
Another cool thing is it's designed to fold in half and lay up against the wall out of the way when not in use.
:P
That is essentially all the Lucas planer head is doing. ~9" head with around a 3" max width of cut per pass. Mind wander... Craftsman had a planer head for the radial arm, I'm guessing the spindle was regular 3450 rpm. I'm wondering if it would be faster to use a dedicated motor and planer head combo on the sled?
I got the arduino to talk to a stepper motor with a keypad for inputs last night. My mind is really wandering :D
That looks awful familiar :) It will work well. I had the same ideas as you, but I am building a very large CNC instead.
(74) Router surface 1 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km6eMz_YS9A)
(74) Router sled surfacing spruce slab - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdErZaL5yas&t=10s)
and just for the record, I thought I would have issues with the router lifting as well. But it did not lift at all.
That was just a cobbed together setup so I could flatten a couple slabs. So the router plate is just a piece of luan slid into the groove on the 8020 extrusion. it is not precision by any means but it left an incredible finish on the slabs.
Quote from: Don P on March 09, 2022, 08:54:44 AM
That is essentially all the Lucas planer head is doing. ~9" head with around a 3" max width of cut per pass. Mind wander... Craftsman had a planer head for the radial arm, I'm guessing the spindle was regular 3450 rpm. I'm wondering if it would be faster to use a dedicated motor and planer head combo on the sled?
I got the arduino to talk to a stepper motor with a keypad for inputs last night. My mind is really wandering :D
I had one of those craftsman planer heads. Used it once and put it back in the box. I found it to be dangerous and catchy. I haven't gotten that far with the Arduino. Tried but gave up. I just use GRBL. This is the box I built for another project that I lost interest in. Will eventually use it for this.
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Runs 2 small nema 34 steppers that should be enough.
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Just a $6.00 arduino clone that I gave up trying to write my own code for.
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Quote from: Crusarius on March 09, 2022, 10:34:20 AM
and just for the record, I thought I would have issues with the router lifting as well. But it did not lift at all.
That was just a cobbed together setup so I could flatten a couple slabs. So the router plate is just a piece of luan slid into the groove on the 8020 extrusion. it is not precision by any means but it left an incredible finish on the slabs.
That looks nice. I am going to stand my X slides up to have better height adjustment and get the ball screw centered. I am trying to keep this light and portable but looks like it will take 2 to move. I decided against going with a spindle and will start with a 2.25 hp router to keep it running on a 15 amp breaker. I built my cnc router to small but looks like it will be a good thing when we pack up and leave NY. How long are your guides? I was looking for 2500mm but went with 2200mm because I was afraid of shipping damage.
Well haven't had much time to work on it but got the basic frame all assembled and squared up
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Came out nice and straight Next I have to machine leveling wedges and slab clamps that will mount on the 2020 rails. Made plastic end caps to retain the t nuts and end stops for the bearing blocks on the CNC router. Can't believe how soft the shafts are for drilling and tapping. O well they should work for this application but I wouldn't recommend them for a fast cnc machine. You get what you pay for.
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Next week should have time to start machining the X carriage
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I think it's going to take longer than I thought but will be a fun project.
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My rails are 1200mm If I remember correctly. Cost $83 from ebay when I got them. I did find that you can put them end to end and the bearing makes a seamless transition.
Originally the linear bearings were supposed to be my raise and lower guide for my sawmill build. But I ended up not using them for that.
Those all look great and y'all are much higher class than me... I just went with mdf and no moving parts.
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Moving along slowly. Don't have to many good hours a day with this darn long term Covid . Started making the cross slide. Decided to go with an air cooled 3 hp 2,2 KW spindle to keep the noise down so waiting for that to arrive. I know the air cooled ones are a little louder then my cnc water cooled spindle but should still be half the noise of a router. Plus its a pain to remove the big Milwaukee from my table so this will be fun to try. A couple more parts to finish machining and it will be ready for manual cuts. If that works then I will add the motors. Decided to shoot for 6 inch x 18 inch x 7 ft max capability.
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Quote from: 21incher on March 16, 2022, 07:34:13 PMDecided to shoot for 6 inch x 18 inch x 7 ft max capability.
??? Why so narrow? Not going to do any table top slabs?
Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 16, 2022, 07:48:08 PM
Quote from: 21incher on March 16, 2022, 07:34:13 PMDecided to shoot for 6 inch x 18 inch x 7 ft max capability.
??? Why so narrow? Not going to do any table top slabs?
That's the max width cut of my saw so anything bigger is waste. Want it just big enough for mantles and small enough to be portable. I don't have room for anything bigger. :o
you sure your not building a full on CNC?
Quote from: Crusarius on March 16, 2022, 08:20:16 PM
you sure your not building a full on CNC?
No just a simple x y sled with motors to make it easy to use. Going with a 220 volt spindle because it costs less then another 3 hp router and will make a lot less noise plus dust collection will be easier. Basically a big jointer.
I like the spindle idea. Definitely want to know what you think of it. I like the air-cooled idea as well. I already have to many things I am trying to house on my CNC.
Are you making a utube on the build?
I'm accumulating parts to build one.....someday. Working on a design now. Thinking about a carriage that runs on the sawmill rails. Trying to figure out how to use a 6" Byrd jointer head for the cutter.
I built a wood sled that works ok, but found out dust collection should be a top priority.
I found a 2.2kw 4 bearing air cooled one on Ebay marked down to $151.00 so I decided to give one a try. Not sure how those cheap slides will hold up with the 15 pound spindle. I see marks on the rails just from playing with them. Invest in square rails if your building a table. After a couple hundred hours the square rails on my table still have no signs of wear. Still trying to decide if I will go with the same vfd as my router or try one that costs a little more with a speed control pot. If you're building a cnc router that will run in your house for hours go water cooled spindle that is whisper quiet and doesn't blow dust around. VFD speed control is very accurate and easy to interface.
Quote from: Larry on March 16, 2022, 09:39:02 PM
Are you making a utube on the build?
I'm accumulating parts to build one.....someday. Working on a design now. Thinking about a carriage that runs on the sawmill rails. Trying to figure out how to use a 6" Byrd jointer head for the cutter.
I built a wood sled that works ok, but found out dust collection should be a top priority.
I am but it's going very slow. I have been fatigued and fuzzy headed since having covid and it takes a long time to make the videos and build items now. Yours will have to be very heavy duty to use a jointer head. Indexing it should be fun also. Originally I was going to use my mill as the rails but I keep it up on a pallet rack when not used so it takes 1/2 a day to get down .
My wood sled has zero dust collection and hopefully this will have zero dust. The big question is how much air the spindle moves when I get to try it out. The water cooled spindles move zero air and make dust collection easy but the one I picked could cause some problems.
Good point about dust collection with air cooled spindle. I never thought about that. Unfortunately for you, I am positive dust is going to be an issue. It is surprising how much is created surfacing a small board.
Well the carriage is done for now. Still waiting on the spindle to arrive to try it. No drive motors or belts yet, but at least I can use it manually until my budget recovers. My VFD arrived. Went with the Huanyang this time. Will use on my Bridgeport when not using the sled. Looks like a better quality VFD then the Velor I use on my cnc router.
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Using a drill for the cross slide for now. Will be adding stepping motors in the future
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The cross rails are mounted to some old 3030 extrusions
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Got the spindle mount squared up and the mounting holes drilled. UPS is very slow delivering the spindle from California
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This is what happens as a result of long term covid brain fog. Went out to make 2 brackets with 8 holes each and came in 4 hours later after multiple tries to get the holes in the right place. So frustrating and exhausting. Spent the rest of the day sleeping on the couch. I never messed anything up this bad before and each part for this build has taken 5times to long to make.
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Had a long ball screw laying around and took it apart to cut down and machine the ends. One thing I learned is expect to spend a couple hours learning how to get the 57 tiny balls back in the proper locations. There are 3 separate circuits in these screws and the sun and moon must align to get them working properly.
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There is what those brackets were supposed to look like. Remade them and this time wrote the dimensions down so I didn't have to do any calculating in my head. Just a little update and going to start on a video soon.
The same thing goes for square linear bearings. Do no try to do anything with them without something inside to hold the balls in place. The good news is I now know how they are built and can rebuild them very easily. It sure is a pain to first of all find all the stupid balls and secondly to put them all back in.
Spindle is here and had to make an offset adapter for the dust boot because of no Z clearance. Just have to go out and find some wire and a 220 15 amp plug. The spindle weighs about 20 pounds. Much heavier then my water cooled one. Got some belts and pulleys on order for the Y drive and need a new blast gate in my dust collection line.
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dust shoe 3d printed? where did you get the broom material?
Quote from: Crusarius on March 22, 2022, 10:33:27 PM
dust shoe 3d printed? where did you get the broom material?
It's a molded nylon 100mm dust shoe with an 80mm adapter. That's the one from my cnc router that I am trying first. With the water cooled spindle it gets about 95% of the chips and 100% of the dust when doing smaller slabs on my cnc table. With this air cooled spindle not sure how the airflow will affect it so going to try this first before committing. It came with shorter broom material and I found the longer version on Amazon that. I had to switch to for surfacing. It's a fixed shoe so the broom length is critical. The broom is very easy to change. It fits in a slot with a couple sheet metal screws holding it in place. I have an idea for a different shoe that separates the cooling air if this has a problem but trying to keep it simple first.
Finally finished the first part video. Got the spindle fired up and looks like no problem collecting the sawdust.
Building The Ultimate Auto Slab Flattening Sled Part 1 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/YVyy3vZHxCM)
That's a work of art 21incher! Very nice!
thats really nice. Good job.
A couple updates. It's moving but manually now. Decided not to use GRBL because of dealing with g code for different size slabs. Going to try and learn to program an arduino to use adjustable switches for slab size and then just repeat a cycle till it hits an end switch set at the slab width. You can see I added low current steppers and $10 drives to move x & y with belts tensioned on the y. Works great with pulse generators for now.
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Still have to work on a z lift to move the spindle in the mount but garden season may delay it if the weather breaks this week as predicted.
I may make another just like it to work on my mill rails in the future.
I was going to make an excel file that would write the g-code after inputting slab size and a few other variables. g-code really is not that difficult. would probably work perfect for your needs.
The g code is not hard but choosing the right size and loading can be cumbersome. I have been through many different ideas and decided that I eventually want a tool I can turn the power on, adjust an x and y limit switch then just push go. I started looking at my grbl box but that requires a PC to load the code. I then was going to use a 3018 controller with off line control with 3 amp drivers from one of the Chinese cnc machines I scrapped out. I found high torque low amp motors that would work with the on board drive chips and planned to store all the code on a sd card the display on the controller could load and run. Decided that was to complicated to have to deal with. I also thought about a laser controller I have and again to complicated in my mind. So now I have my mind made up that it's possible to make a very simple to use machine that requires no g code and just some canned cycles to adjustable switches. Travel speed will be set and spindle will be controlled will just a start button. There will also be a emergency stop and reset button if things go bad. Biggest problem is I have to figure out how to do the programming with brain fog. I may have help though. Just going to use pulse generators to work out the speeds and step increments at first to see how it works. The actual carriage can be adapted to mill rails and belts clamped in place for driving as a portable flatner in the next generation with a wider spread and no programming will be required.
wonder if you could write a code that says goto limit switch then move over 1.5" then return to limit switch. That could work really well.
Quote from: 21incher on April 05, 2022, 08:27:26 PM
Going to try and learn to program an arduino to use adjustable switches for slab size and then just repeat a cycle till it hits an end switch set at the slab width.
I always thought this would be the way to build a low cost and relatively low tech sled.
I did have on thought I don't know how to resolve. Say you have a slab with 20 square foot. On the first couple of passes the router will only cut on the high spots, say 3 square foot. You wouldn't want the router running the whole 20 square foot just to cut on the high spots. I thought it might work to hit the high spots with manual control, maybe a joystick similar to the WM Slabmizer. After the high spots are mostly gone, switch to automatic arduino control with limit switches.
could still use the limit switches just have to move them accordingly. would actually work pretty good. listen till you do not hear the cutter hitting anymore then place the magnetic limit switch on the rail.
You could actually use a joy stick to start at a different home but that really gets complicated. I was thinking fixed home switches and run the whole slab cutting or not. After hitting high spots hit reset to send home.That's one of the reasons for a spindle that won't self destruct like a router with no load. Maybe making them adjustable would be something that would be useful. Just playing with a concept now and I didn't figure time mattered to me if I can just walk away and let it run for simplicity. Then just drop the spindle for the next cut. I think the limit will be about 3/16 a pass (depending on cutter) so it's not going to be fast on twisted slabs.
I actually am finding going with the grain seems to give the best cuts then return and step over for the next cut so it may be really slow for the best results that don't leave marks. Still lots of playing ahead.
It is possible to write G-code to read limit switches. A caution however if you try this route. You want two sets of limit switches. The first set for controlling the cutting process you describe, the second set at max travel for when things go wrong and your machine tries to move the cutting head to the other side of your shop. :o You will also need a number of pin outs on your board. I ran out of pins on my board and had to upgrade.
There are lots of postings online about people wanting to probe surface levels to do similar things. This will of course be driven by your controller choices and technical abilities. I remember one article about using a touch probe to duplicate objects, though I can't find it now.
I was thinking of some kind of roller on a probe end that is run across the surface at various intervals to find the high spots. A simple touch probe would also work.
You might also be interested in this turnkey solution:
https://www.autoleveller.co.uk/ (https://www.autoleveller.co.uk/)
Open source free software. It does require java 8 installed on your computer.
I have looked into the auto leveler before but its designed to contour your g-code to the warped surface. Not find the highs and machine those first. I wish I was better at real programming I would love to write a program that would profile the slab then write the g-code to take off the high spots.
21incher, I found for sure that running with the grain works much better. The pattern I found works the best for me is to start with a full width pass down the edge , then move over almost a full cutter width on the return pass. Then once back at Y0 move the head towards the cut side a 1/4" then run all the way back up. This gives you a series of overlapping squares. Doing the climb cut on the reverse cleans up that last little machining marks and leaves an incredible finish. No sanding was necessary on my boards.
I guess I don't understand the probing for flatness application. You could use 3d printer firmware and a simple switch but my sled is flat and wood will be removed until it's flat then flipped over for parallelism. You can just eyeball from the far end to set the start height. For flattening on my CNC router I probe the top of the high spot and step down from there. Masso controllers have multiple spot probing built in if you need it.
Crusarius what cutting bit have you had the best luck with? My 2 inch Whitside flattening bit was destroyed when I flattened the MDF spoil board on my cnc router. I want an Amana type insert cutter but don't want to spend $300.00. Have you tried any of the low cost insert cutters from Amazon as many of them have excellent reviews for 1/3 the cost and can use std 14mm inserts.
I found a 2.5" cutter with 45 degree cutting edge 4 inserts for a reasonable price. I need to see if I can find it again.
The only thing I have used is a 2" cheapy router but 2 flute. I find the lower RPM made it last quite a bit longer.
I bet something like this would work very nice. reasonable price for what it is
Amana Tool - 3Fl 2" Dia Spoilboard 1/2" Shnk (RC-2255), Industrial Grade - - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-Spoilboard-Surfacing-Flycutting/dp/B077HWY1DS/ref=sr_1_60?crid=3V0ZMHJUJG5YO&keywords=2.5%22+insert+cutter&qid=1649369349&sprefix=2.5%2522%2520insert%2520ecutter%2Caps%2C53&sr=8-60)
I have been really interested in this style bit.
Amana Tool - Spoilboard 2+2 1-1/4" D 1/2 Shk (RC-2247), Industrial Grade - - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-Surfacing-Rabbeting-Flycutter/dp/B00O4TF8LO/ref=sr_1_148?crid=3U07V4DGUD03X&keywords=spoilboard+surfacing+bit&qid=1649372620&sprefix=spoilboard+%2Caps%2C69&sr=8-148)
Wish I could justify buying one.
Those are some of the cutters I was originally looking into but most of them come setup for MDF spoilboards and you also have to buy a set of inserts for wood that are over $30.00 each pushing them over $300.00 with tax. I am looking at a Chinese 2 inch 3 wing version for $70.00 that uses standard 14mm carbide that I have extra boxes of for my jointer and planer. Just don't know how good they work. Guess there's only one way to find out.That's the only way I can keep the total cost of this toy under the 1k I am shooting for. I found the 2 inch whiteside bit to be the max size I could run on the 3hp spindle on my cnc router. I actually was able to stall it out at a 1/4 inch cut in ash and luckily the over current on my y drive shut down movement before any damage occurred because I don't have my VFD fault wired into the Masso.
Which Masso do you have? I almost bought one of those before I found the DDCS
I am using the Masso g3 Mill/ Router 4 axis. They are awesome controllers that have great support. Just plug in a monitor and a USB keyboard/mouse. Very easy to set up and calibrate with wireless support for loading code or just plug in a USB thumb drive. I see they now have one with the built in touchscreen. They provide updates and feature upgrades that users ask for. I could never go back to Mach3. I like how easy it was to set up probing and tool change probing along with enough inputs for my needs and easy pendent implementation. I bought the 4 axis version but for a couple dollars in software it can be upgraded to 5 axis. Not cheap and takes a week to get from Australia but I feel it was well worth it.
Yea, I was really into the Masso g3 touch. comes with 15" touch screen. great for aging eyes. but 1300 I think was the final price.
I like the idea of upgrading to 5 axis cause I do want rotary one day.
For finding high spots, can it just be a laser or whatever beaming down the length of the slab just in front of the cutter, looking down the next path. If the beam is interrupted that line is cut. If the beam makes it to an eye at the far end, then the carriage travels until the beam is broken by the next high spot where it initiates the code to run a line and then look down the length again.
Don, that's a brilliant idea. I never thought of doing it that way. Thanks :)
Finally almost complete. First cuts were amazing and 99% of the chips and dust are captured by my dust collector. Now just a couple things to button up and this fall hopefully I will get the arduino programing figured out to go auto.
Building An Auto Flattening Router Sled Part 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/bV1owRAtepk)
Nice. Once you get that arduino setup your not going to know what to do with yourself :)
Wow! So clean! Amazing dust collection job, not to mention all your tools completely sellable! Man, good work!
Enjoyed the video as always! That build is way beyond me even if my mind still worked the way it use to.
Thanks guys. I will tell you I struggled with this. This covid brain fog is so frustrating to deal with. I made many mistakes that had to be fixed and learned to just walk away when the frustration starts. It feels really good to have made it this far and know things can only get better from here on out. Loosing the ability to think logically and do simple things like math in your head really stinks.
Quote from: aigheadish on April 14, 2022, 02:57:33 PM
Wow! So clean! Amazing dust collection job, not to mention all your tools completely sellable! Man, good work!
I am amazed how well the dust collection worked. With my old sled I would get sick feeling from all the walnut dust. Not so with this one. This is supposed to just be a learning step for the next one I had planned. I want to make one that is adjustable to be able to run on mill rails from 20 to 36 inches wide with simple belt anchors that clamp to the rails. If things get better I will but for now I will be happy to just have this. It's amazing what can be made with a couple parts from Amazon.
Great video and a high quality build. I'm going to refer back to it when I start building one.
Quote from: Larry on April 15, 2022, 09:19:23 PM
Great video and a high quality build. I'm going to refer back to it when I start building one.
Start a thread when you build yours. Having controlled feed really gives a beautiful finish. Now to try that cutter with epoxy fills.
Do you think that dust collector could be fitted to a manual sled? I'll have to look more closely at it to see why that wouldn't work...
And, does it bother you to not see the router bit as it cuts?
Quote from: aigheadish on April 18, 2022, 10:01:57 AM
Do you think that dust collector could be fitted to a manual sled? I'll have to look more closely at it to see why that wouldn't work...
And, does it bother you to not see the router bit as it cuts?
You can do it but a router moves a lot of air downward making it hard to collect the real fine stuff. I would rather not see dust in the air then see the bit.
Well finally made a space in the shop and finished it up. Cheated and bought a clearance butcher block top and cheap metal legs for it. The final video.
Finishing Up My Dustless Slab Flattening Machine - YouTube (https://youtu.be/CzWYKie9f3w)