Stains for English walnut

OlJarhead · December 30, 2019, 07:24:46 PM

Howdy, looking for some assistance on choosing stains or oils for English walnut, particularly the sapwood.

OK here is a well saturated cookie with Danish Oil - Natural. Even without the strange yellow hue in the wood (yellow stain a thing?) it tends to darken the white to a more yellow tint even though in Cherry it changes them more red -- I found that interesting.

Anyone know what that yellow is?

OK the cookie is natural Danish, obviously a blank planed but unfinished piece, then the left is another Danish oil (medium walnut I believe -- which imparts more greys) and the lower right is natural Danish with a little sadona red rubbed on over it.

I'm looking for more of an oak (like a honey or golden) look to the sapwood.

ideas?

OlJarhead · December 30, 2019, 08:15:22 PM

I think I've already answered this :D WOOD DYE! DOH!

I ordered some and can't wait to give it a try.

tule peak timber · December 30, 2019, 08:22:34 PM

I use dry pigments mixed into the oil to make the sapwood attractive.Rob

OlJarhead · December 31, 2019, 09:53:12 AM

I've ordered some and can't wait to try it. Meanwhile this is a piece with the Danish natural oil...notice the yellow stain?

We actually live this piece but want a little darker sapwood...

tule peak timber · December 31, 2019, 10:02:39 AM

Next after the pigments, use a dye in the oil also. Cool results..... 8)
This same type of treatment is also good for sticker stain with a little practice .

OlJarhead · December 31, 2019, 12:10:52 PM

Thanks guys.

Anyone know what the yellow is? I'm thinking it must be some kind of 'yellow stain' like you see 'blue' in Pine???

Or is it just something typical of English Walnut?

OlJarhead · December 31, 2019, 04:03:40 PM

cleaned and water washed the underside

tacks Y · January 01, 2020, 09:37:12 AM

Tule peak, What wood is that floor made of? Thanks

tule peak timber · January 01, 2020, 09:58:25 AM

The floor is english walnut from a grove in Wasco Ca. The finish is hardwax oil with brown ,black and green dry pigment I custom mix. Normally the sapwood is a dull grey and the pigments really do a nice job of dressing it up by filling the pores with color. I like to work with the grafts in the wood also for something different. Monday I'm pitching a new 7000 sq foot job with this material

tacks Y · January 01, 2020, 05:08:35 PM

Tule peak, Nice looking. I figured walnut but wanted to be sure. Hoping to put a mixed hard wood floor in my house. Sawing every wood I can find. Is that floor 5 or 6 inch wide? Any problems going that wide? Thanks Tom

tule peak timber · January 01, 2020, 05:12:54 PM

The widths are 3,4, 5, 6, 7, 8 inches all mixed. You can make a lot more square feet per hour with wider planks. ;D

OlJarhead · January 02, 2020, 08:40:33 PM

Tule -- which dry stain powders do you use?

I have some Keda Dye that I'm trying to figure out how to create a stain to darken the sapwood but not too much.

tule peak timber · January 02, 2020, 09:02:03 PM

Mostly earthpigments.com . A few other folks also. Dyes are a whole lot trickier...

OlJarhead · January 02, 2020, 09:26:03 PM

A little experimentation later and I think I found something

This is a dash of brown plus a smidgen of red, yellow and brown -- don't laugh! I used my wifes super secret measuring spoons with 8oz of water which would be enough to cover quite a bit I think and is easily reproduced.

OlJarhead · January 02, 2020, 09:51:01 PM

The cookie on top is treated with Danish oil (natural), the 3 dyes below it (on one piece) are brown, brown with a pinch of red and the brown with red and yello. Below that is brown and red (left side) and brown with yellow and red in the final dye mix after drying (so a little lighter) and the bottom right is the final dye with a light coat of shellac.

I think that one will work but now I need to sand down a sacrificial cookie to 120grit (they say not to go to 220 or the dye might not take as well) and then dye it, dry, lightly sand and shellac...then I can decide if I want to do any more or just varathane it.

Ruffgear · January 02, 2020, 11:48:33 PM

Dang tule, your always amazing me. You hiring🤷. What brand oil you use? Or do you make your own? I've tried a couple different brands, but I'm still a bit weary that they will hold up

tule peak timber · January 03, 2020, 10:10:13 AM

First KUDOS to OLJarhead for experimenting and coming up with a great looking result..... 8) 8) 8)
Ruffgear, I started out with Rubio Monocoat doing special effects on flooring but due to the very high costs and the lack of customer respect went on to Unearthed hardwax oil. Rubio costs around 650$ a gallon give or take while Unearthed runs 250$/gallon. Unearthed is a really small company that will make deals and is customer friendly so I use them by the pallet full. Good stuff- but you need to make up your own custom colors.
I never do business with company's that don't answer my questions................. :P
Lately I've been mixing my own finishes and fillers from scratch, but that is because I'm in Ca.with very strict regulations on what I can use--also it saves a lot of $$$. Rob

OlJarhead · January 03, 2020, 12:33:11 PM

Thanks 8)

There is more red in it than the pic shows actually. Seems very yellow in the pic but it's more red in RL. I'm still tempted to mess around a little more but am happy with this one as is too.

Next up is to sand the top of the Danish oiled piece and try a dye on it too. Want to see if I can tone down that yellow on it.

And then of course to mess with the walnut until I'm 100% satisfied. This color is planned for two tables and I want to be certain before moving forward.

tule peak timber · January 03, 2020, 01:21:13 PM

Adapt, and overcome...Think I heard that somewhere

Let it dry and try a little "finger painting" in a different color followed by a buffing rag to blend.

Magicman · January 03, 2020, 01:26:57 PM

Erik, the end grain on the cookie is going to take the dye differently and therefore be a much darker color than your sample pieces.

tule peak timber · January 03, 2020, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: Magicman on January 03, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
Erik, the end grain on the cookie is going to take the dye differently and therefore be a much darker color than your sample pieces.

A way to get around the grain difference is to pre seal the wood then "bounce" the coloration off the more "even " surface. I like mixing oil and water......

Ruffgear · January 03, 2020, 06:31:39 PM

Thanks Rob, I've tried Rubio been using odies lately, bit very pricey. I feel I can get almost the same results with pure Tung oil, but it takes time, to much time.

tule peak timber · January 03, 2020, 06:51:45 PM

Ruff, Buy a can of Japan dryer and get happy,,,,,,,,,,,,,real fast.
Ditch the tung and substitute boiled linseed oil and save money.
Add solvent based floor wax to the mix,,,,,,,,nirvana.

Magicman · January 03, 2020, 10:40:04 PM

Yes Rob, it looks like Erik is maybe sealing some with Danish and some not. ??? I will be interesting to see what the final product looks like.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · January 04, 2020, 09:06:26 AM

In the old days, furniture, cabinets and flooring were made to show little color variation. This meant that sanding sealers and similar products were applied first to wood so that subsequent finishing materials soaked into the wood uniformly. There is now more appreciation for the diversity of wood appearance.

I used the word "more" because if you look at most of the imported furniture and flooring sold in the US, which is over 60% of purchases today, you will see uniformity and not natural diversity.

tacks Y · January 04, 2020, 06:21:51 PM

Tule peak, On your floors with hard wax finish how are they holding up? Is that the only thing you use or do you do some with poly? Thanks

tule peak timber · January 04, 2020, 06:48:13 PM

In heavy commercial use a light aqueous wax solution once a month during normal floor cleaning.In a home -once a year with the light waxing.Poly ( water or solvent ) is a whole different system......
The flooring finish holds up very well.

OlJarhead · January 05, 2020, 03:18:06 PM

First -- THANK YOU!

You guys and this site always amaze me, it's like Woodworking 101/201/301/etc....only more like ALL things wood...

One could earn a degree here, I'm certain of it!

The Danish was an experiment. I was trying to see what would happen if I just added more and then some more...in short, a couple light coats appeared to give the same result as soaking it....and the end grain ensures it comes out the other side ;)

Haven't worked on the dyes yet as the wife had a honey do of a shelf she wanted...and I had some Melamine (hate working with that stuff) so....speaking of, I'll try to remember to show a shelf I made for her Christmas village. It's like a puzzle as it comes apart and goes together without any hardware so that it can be assembled and then torn down before and after Christmas and stored flat in the shed until the next year ;) Not quite finished but I'll show a pic or 3 somewhere (maybe there is a "not really woodworking but sorta since it is MDF/Melamine" thread... ;)

OlJarhead · July 28, 2021, 11:05:33 AM

Dredging up an old thread here because I just realized no one knows what I did!!! (unless you saw the WoodMizers personal best I posted ;) )

Sadly, I can't find my recipe so I'll have to test it again but I believe it was TWO dashes of Keda Dye, Brown to 8oz of hot water. And that table? Ya, it became a bar in our new house!