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punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!

Started by doc henderson, July 13, 2020, 10:31:26 PM

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Old Greenhorn

That feller has some good hands. How can anybody not like that?!
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

alan gage

Quote from: tule peak timber on July 14, 2020, 06:56:47 PMAlso remember that several days are required for the "thinner" to outgass and leave the wood.


I think this is worth repeating. I've had the same experience when thinning epoxy (multiple brands). For a day or two it has a kind of gummy plastic feel to it but after that feels and sands just like regular unthinned resin. As far as I know you can thin any epoxy but I can see why manufacturer's wouldn't recommend it as it changes the way it works and cures. Some say it might reduce strength too but that doesn't matter in an application like this.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

doc henderson

I get more stock Thursday, and we will finish the low viscosity stabilization of the wood.  I work 11 out of the next 13 days, (vacations)  so It will set for days after getting the thin on.  Will then move onto filling cracks, and flattening the slab.  should I re-flatten before or after the cracks are filled.  the slab will be more stable after the filling of cracks.  then will sand and finish with a top bar coat.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

tule peak timber

Quote from: alan gage on July 28, 2020, 12:57:19 PM
Quote from: tule peak timber on July 14, 2020, 06:56:47 PMAlso remember that several days are required for the "thinner" to outgass and leave the wood.


I think this is worth repeating. I've had the same experience when thinning epoxy (multiple brands). For a day or two it has a kind of gummy plastic feel to it but after that feels and sands just like regular unthinned resin. As far as I know you can thin any epoxy but I can see why manufacturer's wouldn't recommend it as it changes the way it works and cures. Some say it might reduce strength too but that doesn't matter in an application like this.

Alan
Some epoxy's thin (dilute) better that others. Salesmen will always tell you NO ! ,,,but they are just sales people. I use about six different types of epoxy for different jobs and they all have their place. This morning alone -a phone call from Alaska, 2 customers, and a PM from a member here all relating to epoxy use. When used correctly , an awesome tool.  
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

doc henderson

thanks Tule.  I was just looking at the slabs.  the slabs came from near the pith.  the heart wood has splits, and the differential density from the heart wood to punk wood has not made that better.  we are happy with the look we will get filling with an opaque black in the cracks.  do you think it is better to fill these, so the piece is solid on the mill?  I have a little twist and cupping.  It is funny that the Wagner moisture meter read 14 in the center, 3 on one edge and 0 on the other edge.  now after filling with LV epoxy, reading in the 5s on the edges.  I will have hundreds in epoxy, so I do not want to ruin it on the mill flattening it.  will it mill ok.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

tule peak timber

Epoxy is fine against HSS or carbide. Make darn sure that you blow out any foreign material (sand/dirt) BEFORE any epoxy is applied to your wood. Can't comment on moisture differential as we cook our woods down to 5% minus before infusion, that is 150degrees for weeks. When you go past 50 gallons a month the epoxy distributors get real friendly.... :D :D :D :D :D
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

doc henderson

I have bought on Amazon, any inside track on cheaper?  thanks for you help.  this project is worth the investment, but i do not want to ruin it.  I have 10 and 7° blades.  any thoughts?  I am thinking I will fill cracks first as at one end, some are now almost 1/2 inch wide.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

I am sure the moisture meter was reflecting the relative density of the wood and to some degree the MC.  I think the punky wood dries faster.  No way to look up the setting for "very punky sycamore" and change it in different regions of the slab.  it is more the way the meter interprets density and converts that to a relative MC.  the limitation of the device based on tech.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

tule peak timber

Quote from: doc henderson on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 PM
I have bought on Amazon, any inside track on cheaper?  thanks for you help.  this project is worth the investment, but i do not want to ruin it.  I have 10 and 7° blades.  any thoughts?  I am thinking I will fill cracks first as at one end, some are now almost 1/2 inch wide.
Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc., Ultraclear epoxy, AeroMarine epoxy, best bartop epoxy, And there are various smaller distributors selling from the chemical plants as sales people. Shell Epon, CibaGeigy, and other principals. Don't discount Jamestown Distributors with their repackaging. Fibreglast carbon fiber Co, and other carbon fiber dist. (and fiberglass sales folks) all carry their own brand of repackaged epoxy in various viscosity. West, but they just are sales people not principals, but I am unable to confirm after years of their ads (Epoxyheads/ West systems). I have used these suppliers and more that I won't list who coat golf clubs, tennis rackets, bats, fishing poles, military, marine, space, aircraft, medical, secret junk ad nauseum.
  So cheapest maybe the first two. Today I used several gallons of AeroMarine 300/21 series on a 5 X42 foot walnut top spot filling while over the weekend several gallons of Smiths CPS to prep two vanities and a giant pine slab, and spot repair a bunch of walnut wall panel. I'm not much on "showing " epoxy but very bullish on it's wood stabilizing properties. Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

alan gage

Raka is very popular in the cedar strip canoe world. Relatively thin. Nice cost. Good performance. Multiple hardener choices. Haven't heard any complaints about them and I've been happy.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

WDH

It jumps out like a resonator guitar. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

tule peak timber

Yup, epoxy is good to build guitars with as there is no moisture in it  :)

 

 
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Old Greenhorn

I would think if you made a resonator guitar out of resin, it would fail to provide resonance. ;D

Tule, what were you doing to that poor guitar?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

tule peak timber

I split it in two, added a brass and walnut composite sandwich in the center that stood proud around the perimeter by 1/2 inch. Also a new pick up and some other box thing. A polished radius gave the guitar a new look.....$$$ 8)
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: tule peak timber on July 29, 2020, 09:22:12 PMAlso a new pick up and some other box thing.
I love it when you talk technical :D. I have a high end Luthier friend that would be rolling his eyes at that "some other box thing" remark. Those guys go crazy picking out just the right stuff for a particular sound and customer and playing style and the time of the year and the phase of the moon. Who makes it, what wire is it wound with, what was the humidity when it was wound, all make a big difference apparently. Who knew? :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

mike_belben

Quote from: doc henderson on July 28, 2020, 10:46:59 AM
@Old Greenhorn I choose this one cause hit hat looks like yours.  you friends will know of him.  go to 50 seconds to start the song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L21rXgzjiFE
Roy got nothin on the carters.  
;D
Praise The Lord

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: mike_belben on July 29, 2020, 10:53:30 PM

Roy got nothin on the carters.  
;D
This may be true, but they out number Roy by a fair amount and are better lookin'. :D ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

tule peak timber

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on July 29, 2020, 10:01:38 PM
Quote from: tule peak timber on July 29, 2020, 09:22:12 PMAlso a new pick up and some other box thing.
I love it when you talk technical :D. I have a high end Luthier friend that would be rolling his eyes at that "some other box thing" remark. Those guys go crazy picking out just the right stuff for a particular sound and customer and playing style and the time of the year and the phase of the moon. Who makes it, what wire is it wound with, what was the humidity when it was wound, all make a big difference apparently. Who knew? :D
This customer was cut from the same cloth. Occasionally, in the past I did work for Fender and got to see all the craziness in their big manufacturing plant in Los Angeles (Corona). The coolest thing was the thousands of guitars that hang from a moving rail system attached to the ceiling production line style. I built some drums for them also. I stay away from the exacting, VERY competitive nutcakes building musical instruments, like Fender. The cigarette burns, the drool, sweat stains....I'll stick to selling walnut sapwood :D :D :D :D :D
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

doc henderson

we have some diagonal splits along the live edge.  do not want to mess that up.  I guess we will fill those carefully so it does not get all over the edge.  any other ideas?  I will add a pic later.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

tule peak timber

Yes, make a dryer mix of epoxy and wood flour and using a putty knife plaster all the cracks across the grain. Do not worry about being messy.
   In about half an hour wet a cloth with acetone and scrub WITH the grain the ENTIRE natural edge face- even where you did not fill -or have any cracks. This blends the entire edge and puts a little epoxy into the entire natural edge.
  Next day, spot sand gently and you will have a stable finish ready natural edge.  Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

doc henderson

thanks Rob.  here are a couple more pics.  I am at work, and my son held it together as I kept texting how i wanted the pics.  


 

 

 

 
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

That would be with the regular epoxy I assume?  still total boat.  I have another gallon of the low viscosity, incase I unroof some punky stuff in the flattening phase.
it is the high performance epoxy with 2:1 medium hardener.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

I think I will pack the epoxy flour in from the back to help seal the bottom up, for the filling of the surface.  i plan to pigment with japan lamp black, and put in some turquoise stones, in the large cracks.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

tule peak timber

With the cracks shown in the pics I would turn the slab upright, butter, fill, dam, both sides with "mud" and the next day fill the front with liquid for a 100% fill. This is the type of work I do here ad nauseum  7 days a week, nonstop. If you use walnut flour from your sander, after sifting, colorant will not be needed.
 Another note , I only use wood flour and epoxy to make "mud"for sealing cracks on sides and bottoms-and wait the extra day to fill voids with less viscous mixes. Years of tape failure have taught me no short cuts even with production pressure.
 If that is your natural edge face , fill vertical the next day slightly lower than grade, and the day after that do the "mud"and along the grain wipe routine for a very natural looking natural edge. I can also guarantee that those splits will NEVER open again.
 Regular epoxy for the mudding and low viscosity fill mixed with wood flour for desired effect.
  I only did turquoise in one set of table tops and to me it looked like a bunch of mixed rocks that got dumped in the epoxy-I don't care for the look- even diamond cut and polished. Pretty crude even in mixed aggregate.
 Something else I came up with instead. 

 

 

 
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Walnut Beast


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