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Those wonderfull old Husqvarna's...model 61 Ranchers thru 272XP's

Started by weimedog, December 23, 2010, 02:14:21 PM

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weimedog

As an extension of another question about this series of saws & are they a good saw.

The answer in my mind is ....YES they are a great old saw design. Not going to run with the new design's but will certainly cut wood fast enough to matter and are cheap and lots of fun to modify. Lots of parts interchangeability as well. Here is a picture of a few components...going to put a 272XP cyliner and piston on a 1978 era 61 Rancher. There are a few significant changes in the cases...so mixing the 272intake with the 61 rubber seal along with a few other things requires some creativity....like the cover. But...here's a pic of the project as it begins. All the 272 parts required and some of the parts replaced in this pic. Including...a 272XP Cylinder & Piston along with the 61 P&C. The 272XP intake tract along with the old 61's intake...going to assemble and mod as required to get it running first..then might go back and clean up the intake thru exhaust if there is any reason or interest...more an excercise in blending the two extreme's in this series of saws!

Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

NCFarmboy

I agree, great old saws.   Good torque in the wood.  I have 5 or 6 61's, 3 or 4 266's as well as 2 late model 268's.  I just tore down one 268 to replace with 272 P&C kit.  Good thing about 272 is compression release.  I also have tons of parts to fit this series of saw.  If you need or can't find anything let me know I probably have it.  God Bless You & Family!  Shep
Lots & Lots of Saws

weimedog

Thanks for the offer & support & ditto for u! I also have the Jonsered equivalent 630's .. and my next project is to build one of those into a "Red" 272XP just of chits & grins and to show the parts interchangeability. (Down the road as if i don't have enough saw projects!) Be nice to post pics of the different iterations of that series for info and also who ever takes one on pics of how they build theirs...along with a thumb up or down on the results! So others who get into this stuff can learn from our mistakes!
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Have the 272XP Piston, Cylinder, Intake, and Filter base on the 61 bottom end..a few pics. The two places I have to get creative are the 61 cover & muffler. I could just put a later model cover & muffler on...but chose to hack the 61 for two reasons..one to keep the color, look, and feel of the 61 Rancher and two thought it would be cool to see that bigger cylinder busting out all over! So part way thru the mod of the cover...and a few other pics of interest.

Check out the x-sectional area difference between the 61 and 272 intake manifold..u may have to zoom. There is no way I could open a 61 to breath like the 272!


OEM 272 Piston installed on the stock 61 con rod...and ring compressed with piston part way in the cylinder..I do this and then wipe on the Three Bond...not as messy.


272XP top end and intake assembled on the 61 bottom end....and there it is!


Had to hack the cover...here is the cover fitted..but I'm not done with it yet..


Either going to mod a 268 muffler and those front braces from the newer versions to fit on this 61 or going to use Al Smith's approach to the old 61 muffler & braze in some tubes for the mounting bolts to both go thru and snug up against so I can crank on them and not crush the muffler. (Muffler will have no other internal baffles and has a .75 in tube welded to the upper clutch side corner for its exit.)

Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Dave Shepard

I have a 66. It is a very reliable saw. Just keeps going and going.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

weimedog

All those 200 series Husqvarna's were well thought out simple and reliable! You know I honestly don't know if the 266 is on the same case as the 61, 268 and 272. I have a friend who is building what I think is a 262, and its a little smaller saw. Is the 266 built on that or is it yet another on the larger cases like the 272?

(BTW that 262 is a shocker on how well it runs & cuts! Amazing little saw)


And tube spacers inside the 61's muffler as we plod along....
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

And here it is...


A Model 61 Rancher with a cylinder/piston/intake manifold from a 272XP, a airhorn & filter from a 268 and the rest all 61. Had to moddify the muffler and cover to make it all fit...going to use this as a test mule for porting mods as the winter goes on...can have it apart and back together in about an hour! These series saws are SO simple and SO easy to work on!

Have four detail left before this project is done:

1) Have miss matched bolts to hold the muffler..a trip to the hardware store is required! One is a case screw from a Honda CR125 motor, and the other standard hardware store stock.
2) Have to trim a little more from the cover to clear the plug wire...I want the plug wire not to e pushed onto the cylinder fins..(another five minutes or so)
3) Have to trim a little on the filter to make it fit under that smaller cover.
4) Going to drill and tap a small hole on top of that cylinder so I can use a small screw to fasten the cover there as was stock. This one will take a bit of care not to ruin a good cylinder..unnecessary but I like dotting the "i's" and crossing my "t's"...details details....

But I have to go to work so this will be for another day! Enjoy! Merry Christmas all!
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Al_Smith

With that mention of the J-red 630's ,I worked on a pair of them a few years back .Rebuilt the carbs and tuned them .They were impressive for 60 cc saws .

The young man I did the work for had  the tops from 100 some odd white oaks to cut for firewood .I'll bet it took him the best portion of the winter to accomplish that task .

weimedog

I like those little saws...Spike60 has a couple...and his well tuned stock 630 ate my slightly modded 61 (this one with its stock cylinder prior to this 272 swap) up...which was the genesis of this project...chits & grins and going for a rematch at our next GTG...wonder if he will see the hints that all is not as it seems! Part of the fun...and my next hunt for the holy grail...to find all the bits & pieces to build a big bore 630 in Jonsered Red plastic...but that's after finishing a 920 Jred and a 925 Homey..:)


Going to take this complete and running Jonsered 920 and put a ported 930 "windowed" cylinder on it:



The two Jonsered cylinder styles..closed and windowed, the closed cylinder is what is on that saw right now...stock. The one with the windows is from a 930..its what going on after some wood dyno data is collected to see the differences.



Interestingly enough they (Jonsered) must have had that modification in mind years before the 930 as all the cases have windows..look at the shadow on the closed 920 cylinder!...Any this is for another thread another time!..again Merry Christmas!!
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Cut4fun

I had a 2 262 and case is smaller then 66 and 266.

Since you seem to work on these models you might know. Not to throw your thread off on a derail. I have one question and then I wont derail anymore.

But I have a like new 66 coming in on trade and dummy me sold a used abused running 266 PHO for $30 to a friend because I didnt want to get into these model of saws during the spring.  So far I have found out only difference in 66 and 266 is open port 66 v/s closed port 266. Is there anything else different and will a 272 top end be a direct swap on this 66?

Thanks for any additional info.

weimedog

I have never personally owner and worked on a 66 or 266. I've focused on 268 to 272xp upgrades since they are ..bolt off & bolt on the upgrades (And cheap as dirt so I don't care if I mess one up!). I believe the 66 & 266 are in the same class as that 61-268-272XP. The types of things that differed in that series that actually mattered relative to swapping parts were the older cases with a different (straighter) casting right by the intake manifold and the earlier ones had a different ignition. The rubber grommet that surrounds the intake manifold reflects that difference and (as I did) will work with the later manifolds, so its an easily solved issue. The bolt sizes for the muffler and carb thru intake manifold are different between the early models and the 272 forcing the use of 272 parts in some cases or modifying the old parts (like I did to the 61 muffler). The cover...well you see what I did with the earliest cover design from that series. The intake air horn & filters, muffler etc change from one generation to the next..but most of that is just deciding if you want to keep the original or do as I did and swap to the later versions. The reason I picked that 61 was to basically take the two extremes...earliest and latest and blend the later top end to the early cases. So I guess action speaks louder than words..bottom line is with a little ingenuity, simple fabrication type modifications, and patience you can fit a 272XP top end on any of those bottom ends of that class saw. BTW before u do pitch that open port 66 cylinder...(actually either open or closed port after upgrading to the 272) Use them to learn how to grind ports or trade them away for parts. I know a 266 with closed ports can  be made to run..really well.

As If i haven't blended enough! How about a Homelite 18inch Bar to the Husqvarna...a little flat file work on the "slot" was all it took. That saw starts easy and runs strong! Can't wait to break it in.



Other side along with the other project for the day...by the way they BOTH run quite well.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Quote from: Cut4fun on December 25, 2010, 07:18:06 PM

But I have a like new 66 coming in on trade and dummy me sold a used abused running 266 PHO for $30 to a friend because I didnt want to get into these model of saws during the spring.  So far I have found out only difference in 66 and 266 is open port 66 v/s closed port 266. Is there anything else different and will a 272 top end be a direct swap on this 66?

Thanks for any additional info.

Put up some pics and we can see as well as have other chime in who may know more..
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Al_Smith

The subject of saw brands has been discussed and cussed for the matter time and again .It just goes back to the McCulloch/Homelite days of yore .As such it seems what ever geographical area of the country or world for that matter that what was or is the popular brand is what you find to tinker with .For me that's old Macs and not so old Stihls .

Husqvarna made a power play some time back in this area more or less dictating to dealers how much inventory they muct keep on hand etc .As such every single dealer told them to take a hike and the closest dealer to me is 40 miles away and doesn't know beans from apple butter .

J-red ,although the saws seem to be top notch never was a player in this area nor was Dolmar . The ones I run across are kind of red headed step children to put it punishly,so to speak .

weimedog

This is an active logging territory with the headquarters of one of the largest landowners in New York..and looging outfit in town! So there are all brands here. We have 3 Dolmar dealers within 20 miles...2 within 10. I big Husqvarna & Stihl dealer. Interestingly there is no Jonsered or Solo dealers anymore. Having said that, the old shop in town who lost their Husqvarna & Stihl dealerships to the big powersports muscle in town USED to be dealers for Jonsered, Efco/Olympic and just about every other brand imaginable from time to time so there are all kinds of stuff that turns up at garage sales. Oh yea..they were Homelite and McCulloch at one time as well...fertile harvesting for the saw collectors around here.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Al_Smith

Well that certainly plays a factor in it too .While north western Ohio does have some active logging it's mainly agriculture  .Now over towards the eastern side of the state in the big oaks or southern in the pulp wood no doubt the selection of tinkering stock would be better .

weimedog

BTW, asked Spike60, The most knowledgeable person I know on the subject of Husqvarna/Jred history; about the 266 and J-red cross overs models to this series of saws.

Here is a summary of his answer:


"Saws in that family are 625, 630, and 670 on the J red side. 66 and 266 are both early twin coil versions (Ignition). 66 is a rare model, using the open port jug that was later used in the non-"XP" 268, as well as the 268K.

the Jonsereds do not have different model numbers to help ID between early and late saws, such as the 266 to 268 change with husky. The term "II" after super might be it. Both the 625 and 670 use the impulse port coming off the cylinder. I guess a rule of thumb with this family is to figure on swapping the whole intake setup with most jugs. "
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Cut4fun

Thanks for digging up info.

I will get some pics in due time when trades are done.  ;)

JohnG28

Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

HolmenTree

I logged with a Jonsered 630 in the early 1980s and was a tough reliable saw. Later on I bought a Stihl 034 super which had the same cc as the 630 but the 034S didn't have the torque and cutting speed of the Jonsered. Alot of other loggers I worked alongside said the 034 was a toy compared to the 630.
The newer 670 Jonsered was a strong saw from what I remember. I never owned one because by then I was running a Stihl 064 and a 044. But I woods ported a 670 for my brother Cliff and that saw turned out some real amazing cut times, I ground 4 finger ports into the cylinder for good measure. That little 670 was blowing away well broke in Stihl 066 Mags in 12"X12" spruce.
If I remember correctly this 670 my brother had was the 1st yr model with a undersized crankcase making good hp but was later enlarged with extra volume and material because they weren't standing up.
Those early 670's were strong runners.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

weimedog

I would love to see the inside of that 670 cylinder you worked over! Thanks for the history. I have a bunch of old J-red bottom ends & plastic from that series and at some point want to buiild one. You have any pics of that era? (I can scan them in to digital format & post them if u want)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

wannabeonetoo

Weimedog,I'd like to hear more on the 266 mods you mentioned that they run well. I have one that "some farmer" ran over & I'd like to get it up to "snuff" this winter !

Steve

weimedog

Quote from: wannabeonetoo on December 29, 2010, 12:27:53 PM
Weimedog,I'd like to hear more on the 266 mods you mentioned that they run well.  I have one that "some farmer" ran over & I'd like to get it up to "snuff" this winter !

Steve

I haven't worked on the 266, but I know a fella who has one that runs quite well hence my comment. What I can say is the "closed" port cylinders I believe that 266 has run stronger than the "open" transfer port cylinder. Also the same things that work on the slightly larger 272 work on the 266.  (266XP has a 50mm bore and is 66.7cc while the 272 has a 52mm bore and is 72cc)

The types of mods that are simple to do are like we went thru on my old 61...muffler mods & match inlet of muffler to exhaust port, assemble cylinder with out base gasket using seal material like three bond 1194 instead, (Boost compression and slightly alters port timing) For those a little more adventuresome and have the tools & skills...Opening the exhaust port exit,  and carefully widening the intake & exhaust ports laterally (NOT vertically as that alters port timing!)...(DON'T widen past the piston skirts & chamfer when done!) stuff like that. Other things like opening air passages into the cover help support down stream mods....turns out with a little log dyno time I found the weakest link on my 61 after swapping on 272 components was the cover! Of course swapping a 272 top end adds displacement....so its where ever you want to go. Food for thought...make certain stuff is dirt cheap and expendable! Stuff can be had for scrap prices on those old saws! Typical carcass cost me 20 bucks. Most of mine were junk parts saws from local dealers or garage sales...don't think I have over $100 dollars in this 61....that does include a new OEM piston for $60 & two parts saws. Never going to make it run like a stock 372XP! So use that as a gauge to see if its worth it to you.

Note: I actually found the "hogged" out 61 intake with the cover opened worked as well as the stock 272 intake horn with no filter....so I took things apart to see why...look how straight a shot that hogged out with die grinder stock 61 intake horn has on the carb...and if u look at the top of the pic you can see the opening enlarged at the back of the cover...and that made a tangible difference.




Real deal and almost deal..Book ends on that saw series both time and displacement extremes..at least they started out that way!
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

HolmenTree

Quote from: weimedog on December 29, 2010, 08:36:20 AM
I would love to see the inside of that 670 cylinder you worked over! Thanks for the history. I have a bunch of old J-red bottom ends & plastic from that series and at some point want to buiild one. You have any pics of that era? (I can scan them in to digital format & post them if u want)
I don't have any pics from this 20 yr old plus project but my brother probably still has that saw .
If you go to page 3 on this forum and read what I posted on the "038AV wanting to change to 038 Magnum" thread, the information I gave there is exactly what I did to the 670 except I used a big Tilliston Husqvarna carb. The finger ports are easy to grind, just don't grind through the cylinder :D. Grooves 1/4"- 5/16"wide from each top corner of the lower transfer window arcing up alongside the upper transfer ports and ending at the ceiling of the transfer ports.
No widening of exhaust or intake ports, just a good polish on the exhaust port. Just as simple as this . I have seen some folks turn the rear finger ports back towards the intake port for a swirl affect, but I have never tried this and have had good sucess what I have already done.
Now if we are talking real serious race mods, then it would be full circle journal crankshaft, oversized transfer port covers; cutoff head and go kart carb. But thats a project I will do when I have some spare time. :D

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Spike60

Well, well, well. So this is why we have some interest in the rematch, eh?  :D

I love the fact that you used the shorter muffler and kept the white top on there. But the truth is, covers in this family of saws do not interchange between the early twin coil saws and the later single coil units. The location of the left front bolt hole is about a 1/2 inch different on the early vs late cases.

I'm game to run my STOCK 630 against that new wolf in sheeps clothing you've got there. Be interesting to see the result. 630's are still the best 60cc class saw out there as far as I'm concerned. I should have run it against the 560XP prototype I had before I sent it back to Husky!

Couple more items concerning this family of saws. For the most part, no two models used the same cylinder. The two exceptions are: the first saw in the family, the Husky 162, used the same cylinder as the Jonny 630. The 162 is kind of rare, and has a metal fuel tank. The second exception is the Husky 66 and non-XP 268 using the open port 268K cylinder. The 50MM saws, 670, 266, and 268 can use the same piston, but are all different cylinders. The 625 and 670 jugs differ from their Husky cousins in that the have the separate impulse port coming off the clutch side of the cylinder.

IPL's over the years will show some confusing part numbers for things such as pistons, but these generally all supercede up to the latest number. Early items might have been thin ring and/or full skirted.

Mounts for these saws can be tricky, as there are two threads involved. Essentially there is the fine thread for the metal tanks, and the course thread for the plastic tanks. But where you can get fooled is that the early plastic tanks had a metal insert and therefore take the same mount as the metal tank.

Cylinder bolts are another. I gave a buddy a 266 top end to put on his 630 II. The holes in the 266 cylinder flange were slightly smaller, but could be easily enlarged for the 630 bolts. But what would you do going the other way? Was the difference due to Husky vs Jonsered, or early vs late cases?? Who the heck knows? Solving the puzzle is half the fun!
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

weimedog

 
Quote from: Spike60 on December 30, 2010, 09:12:29 AM
Well, well, well. So this is why we have some interest in the rematch, eh?  :D

I'm game to run my STOCK 630 against that new wolf in sheeps clothing you've got there. Be interesting to see the result. 630's are still the best 60cc class saw out there as far as I'm concerned. I should have run it against the 560XP prototype I had before I sent it back to Husky!


:) Figured you would get a kick out of that! :D Bet its closer than I would like as well! That 560 was an eye opener...so are we going to see the 560 or 562 when it finally arrives?


And like i said before on the muffler mod thread...more true knowledge! Thanks for your time on this subject! Was there a 50mm full skirt piston? I have a 268 cylinder where the intake got...ahem..a little too wide so its about .010inch past the skirt on one side...I think a full skirt piston would make that one useful again!


Quote from: Spike60 on December 30, 2010, 09:12:29 AM
Cylinder bolts are another. I gave a buddy a 266 top end to put on his 630 II. The holes in the 266 cylinder flange were slightly smaller, but could be easily enlarged for the 630 bolts. But what would you do going the other way?

Bet they will as the skirt centers the cylinder. Maybe a washer but I doubt the difference in ID even requires that! I noticed it appears to be an SAE vs Metric thing for what ever reason with the cap screws allen head size.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

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