The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: kelLOGg on November 14, 2012, 09:35:25 PM

Title: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: kelLOGg on November 14, 2012, 09:35:25 PM
After setting a band have you ever verified the set by screwing out the moveable anvil so it will not strike the tooth and take a set reading while pressing hard on the handle so it bottoms out? If the band is pressed flat against the backstop during setting also you should get the same readings, right? Well, I tried it on my Cook’s Setter and found that the reading for the inside teeth is lower than the set value by up to as much as 0.005” Why would this be?  (The inside teeth are those that are set to point to the inside of the band and the outside teeth are set to point to the outside.) The two readings for the outside teeth are essentially the same. Even with a little bit of curvature the band should be temporarily flattened by the pressure during the setting and verification process no matter which way the band is oriented in the setter. In the case of the inside teeth, what is the correct set? - the value to which it was set or the measured value? Better still, has anyone made a dial indicator holder for mounting on a taut band and measured the set under actual cutting conditions?

The reasons for these questions are that I am trying to diagnose reasons for an occasional slight rise (~1/16”) of a sharp band when cutting clear hardwoods.

Bob
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: customsawyer on November 15, 2012, 05:47:05 AM
Have you zeroed out the setter? I zero the dial indicators on the cooks setter about every 10-12 blades.
I have gotten a few bad blades from time to time. I would try some different blades first before changing much on the mill.
Check the set before you run the blade and then after as you might have something on the mill that is taking the set out of the teeth on the inside of the blade.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: scouter Joe on November 15, 2012, 06:25:43 AM
Check your blade alinement . The roller guides could be worn a bit causing the front of the blade to be a bit higher than the back . This was a problem that I had with mine . scouter Joe
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: slider on November 15, 2012, 06:39:41 AM
Suffolk machinery sells a hand operated dial indicator ,cooks may also have them.They were around 100 bucks.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: bandmiller2 on November 15, 2012, 07:15:01 AM
All setters are adjustable,adjust the anvil to give the inner set teeth a few more thou. or the outside less.I've found the inner teeth seem to have less set after running the band for a wile.You can make your own gauge for checking set.You will need a dial indicator, new or used,with a flat anvil {most are curved] a small chunk of steel like 1x1x2" near one end drill a hole for the indicator shaft tap for a set screw to hold and adjust the indicator.On the indicator end of the block file,mill or grind away 1/8" of steel.You set the tool on a flat surface and zero it then hold it agenst the side of a band,anvil on the tooth point and read the set. No pictures. Frank C.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: Bibbyman on November 15, 2012, 07:28:03 AM
I have a hand held gauge that was supplied with the Wood-Mizer dual tooth setter.  It's basically a very heavy C clamp with a dial indicator. 

Accurate reading with any of these gauges requires the blade to be clean and burrs removed. 

I too am finding the inside teeth to loose a couple of thousand set on running.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/wsgaugecheck20120809.jpg)

Here is a picture of the gauge where I'm checking the zero.  I found out after I'd overset some blades that I should check the gauge every now and then.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: kelLOGg on November 17, 2012, 06:05:59 PM
Have you zeroed out the setter?

I zero before setting the inside and outside teeth. Overkill, I know, but until I'm more confident I will continue to do so.

adjust the anvil to give the inner set teeth a few more thou. or the outside less.

OK. I did this on a band where the inside was set to 0.005" more than the outside but both inside and outside checked as I described to close to the same. I'm really anticipating just how this band cuts. I have no logs now so it will have to weait. Don't think I will try it on a customer's log.

I have a hand held gauge that was supplied with the Wood-Mizer dual tooth setter.

Are you checking the set on a tensioned band? Seems to me that is the absolute best condition under which to make a measurement! Sounds like I could use Frank's advice and make my own.

Thanks for all the replies.

Bob

Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: bandmiller2 on November 17, 2012, 08:32:14 PM
Bob,I don't think it makes any differance if the band is tensioned or not to check set.If you are used to using a vernier caliper it can be used to check set.one jaw on the band back the outher on the tooth tip.Most of us check the set before sharpening to avoid the burr thrown up from the grinding wheel. Frank C.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: JohnSR on November 17, 2012, 10:37:19 PM
.If you are used to using a vernier caliper it can be used to check set.one jaw on the band back the outher on the tooth tip.Most of us check the set before sharpening to avoid the burr thrown up from the grinding wheel. Frank C.
Thanks for the tip on the vernier caliper idea. I have the dual setter from Cook's and never was sure if I was getting a good set. After zeroing the caliper to the thickness of the blade, found out I was .07 under on the inside compared to the outside even though both dial indicators on the setter reads .20. Will have to play around with the setter tomorrow.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: pineywoods on November 18, 2012, 03:40:01 PM
I finally just took the dial indicator off my setter. I use a caliper to set both sides to 27 thou and just leave it there.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: Solomon on November 19, 2012, 02:01:26 PM
Thanks for starting this thread Kellog.   I have an old Woodmizer sharpener (not the cbn) and a single tooth setter.  I have only sharpened a couple mill blades and one from my 20 inch band saw in the shop.   Don't really know what I'm doing. (yet).     For the mill blades it took three passes ,  and two passes for the band saw blades.    The mill blades are 229 inches x inch and a half x 7/8, and around .045 or .050 thick.   I dont think my sharpener is really heavy duty enough to do a lot of them.
  Thinking about buying another sharpener.  Not sure yet.  Anyway, I learned a lot from this thread.
 Thanks.
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: woodmills1 on November 19, 2012, 05:47:23 PM
I have sharpened hundreds of WM blades

1.25 .042

1.25 .045

1.5 .055

old style drag type wm sharpener and one tooth setter


hate setting, only do it ifin I has to

I check the first three teeth   ifin they sets well I jam it around lika semi automatic   and 75% it works

I check my sets with a vernier caliper as described
Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: Chuck White on November 20, 2012, 09:35:12 AM
I check my set with the setter (Cooks single tooth).

I set every blade every time!

I have found that after a blade is used, the set "inside" will be different (less) than the set "outside" and there will be different amounts of set, here and there, all the way around the blade!

I have partially "unset" blades before too.  Doing this, I just push the point back towards the center, to a set of about .020, and then reverse it and set as normal.

Title: Re: How do you verify the band set?
Post by: John Bartley on November 20, 2012, 06:07:53 PM
I check my set with the setter (Cooks single tooth).

I set every blade every time!

I have found that after a blade is used, the set "inside" will be different (less) than the set "outside" and there will be different amounts of set, here and there, all the way around the blade!

I have partially "unset" blades before too.  Doing this, I just push the point back towards the center, to a set of about .020, and then reverse it and set as normal.

+1 ... word for word.

John