silky dogwood

chuckp · October 20, 2007, 06:16:19 AM

Here in N.W nj, there is what is supposedly silky dogwood growing all throughout the woods. It was identified by the local extension agent.
The shrub doesn't grow very tall, maybe 2' max. and I have yet to see any berries. I'm starting to doubt this is silky dogwood.
I'll try to take some pictures but in the meantime, what can I look for to positively i.d this?

Timburr · October 20, 2007, 07:03:41 AM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Come on in and let's find you a seat.

Does THIS LINK bear any resemblance to your querie?

If you are doubting silky dogwood id, what else do you think it might be?

chuckp · October 20, 2007, 08:44:04 AM

Thanks for the welcome.
The bushes in question have similar leaves, but hairless twigs. Seems to grow no taller than 2'. Really spreading as far as you can see some parts of the hillside are covered.
No berries. Never saw any berries on this shrub.
Maybe it is silky dogwood.

Brian Beauchamp · October 20, 2007, 02:32:43 PM

Pics...we need pics! ...please!

SwampDonkey · October 20, 2007, 03:20:55 PM

red osier dogwood, squaw bush, red bush ??? It's takes over marginal ground.

chuckp · October 25, 2007, 03:35:03 PM

This is the picture:
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/edit/preview_3b1672f6.JPG

SwampDonkey · October 25, 2007, 03:44:21 PM

Can't see much in a tiny thumbnail. Why isn't in your gallery?

chuckp · October 25, 2007, 07:30:32 PM

Please check my gallery.

SwampDonkey · October 26, 2007, 06:33:44 AM

The leaves and branching pattern I see reminds me of Viburnum cassinoides (northern wild raison, witherod). Grows on ground with fluctuating water table. Has large buds when dormant. But wild raison grows to six feet and has whithered black fruit in fall. MMMM good bear food. ;)

chuckp · October 26, 2007, 10:09:01 AM

This plant has no fruit. Do you rule out silky dogwood?

SwampDonkey · October 26, 2007, 06:06:21 PM

No I don't rule it out. I guess I have to get a good website picture of it to compare. I've never heard that name before. Usually there are some dogwood in a patch with fruit. But, maybe late spring frost did the flowers in?

SwampDonkey · October 26, 2007, 06:08:36 PM

Your picture has leaves less oval than most dogwood I'm familiar with. Looks more like wild raison leaves and they do turn reddish purple in fall. Plants don't have to have fruit for ID, but would be a help, although the fruit between the two plants are very similar. :

Also, they grow to around the same height to. Are the leaves opposite (twinned) on the stems? That ain't gonna help much either. :D :D :D :D

chuckp · October 26, 2007, 07:13:29 PM

It sure does look like the wild raison, one thing though. The extension service did tell me that the telltale sign of silky dogwood is the veins curve inwards as they near the edge of the leaf.
I know you can't see that in the picture. But I believe they do. I'll see if I can get my daughter to take a close-up of the leaf to better describe what I mean.

SwampDonkey · October 27, 2007, 07:18:40 AM

Are the branch tips red, sometimes lime green?

chuckp · October 27, 2007, 11:05:28 AM

Some branch tips are definitely red

SwampDonkey · October 27, 2007, 11:18:49 AM

If there are no hairs on the stems, I'm inclined to think it's red osier dogwood. They only grow 2-4 feet in height. The silky seems to grow to 10 feet. Although, that picture does not remind me so much of red osier. Look at a bud and compare it with the silky dogwood on the V-Tech website linked to in this thread. Red osier buds look like that also.