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osage orange

Started by c austin, March 14, 2010, 09:06:40 AM

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c austin

Hi, I was told osage orange grows around the Texas area I'm in VA and was told there is a osage orange at a local church that needs to bee taken down. Here in VA we have a weed tree called a malberry tree I think people are confusing the two trees or are they the same thing, what is a easy adinafier of the tree thanks.

LeeB

Same fammily but not the same thing. Both trees grow across a wide cross section of the country. The wood from each is very similar in my experiance. Both are a bright yellow when first cut and turn a golden brown with time and very hard stuff with osage being a little harder. Can't help you with the easy identification.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

SwampDonkey

If Osage: Soak some of the heartwood in some warm/hot water and yellow dye color will bleed out. Tyloses (blocked pores) in earlywood pores, seen on end grain but not well defined. Very heavy wood and hard, 20% denser that mulberry. Leaf is pointed at apex, dark green and shiny, twigs are armed with sharp spines. Mulbery leaves are serrated along the edge and has many forms, from entire to 3 lobed.
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miking

Short, stout thorns on the hedge (or osage orange) are an obvious difference as are the fruit. OO's have  green fleshy fruits fist sized or bigger while mulberries have small edible purple when ripe fruits.
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tractorfarmer

And the thorns on the osage orange are only on the younger branches. They won't be on the trunk. Be careful, they are about one inch long and go through shoes easily. The green baseball sized fruit should be on the trees now and falling.
The mulberry can have white or red fruit. Usually early summer. If its red, the fruit will stain.
The oasage orange has a light color bark. And the mulberry has a much darker bark.
Both are nice trees, but I love osage orange. The wood is very hard and one of the most rot resistant. It can take a good hacking without being killed. I think they were native to Texas or Oklahoma, but were used in PA by farmers as fences before barbed wire was invented.

Ironwood

During the post Dust Bowl years FDR's conservation plans included planting shelter belt Osage throughout much of the temperete US, they planted some 250 million trees, beyond it native range in the Texas /Oklahoma areas. We have it here in Western Pa. FOR SURE, thanks FDR

Ironwood (I love Osage wood)
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Walnut Beast

After the F5 tornado leveled much of downtown Joplin, Missouri, in 2011, the only thing left standing in the half-mile swath of destruction was a massive Osage-orange–a testimony to the tree's resiliency and toughness.

farmfromkansas

I have lots of hedge trees on my farm, and the osage is a shallow rooted tree, and wind storms often tip them on their side partially up rooted.  They will continue to grow, sometimes causes some interesting bent pieces. Funny how the hedge rows are less susceptible to getting up rooted.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

bluthum

 A little more background, both are great woods for cabinetry and many other things. The name "boidarc" came from French explorers who noted how the native Americans they encountered loved the wood for bows. Ditto the Osage orange title [Osage Indians]. I think the French were talking about the Natives they first encountered like the Caddo and Osage in the Mississippi river valley.  

Both are also prone to not making great fine logs although sometimes mulberry will make a wonderful big clear straight bole . That's rare in osage orange. Both can be difficult to season when sawn but are stable when finally dried.

Osage orange is prized for making duck callers though it has a loud harsh sound compared to most other woods. I think mulberry may have some great tonal qualities itself, I've never had any luck trying to get a duck caller guy to try it. 

I can't imagine calling a fruit producing tree like a mulberry a weed tree, it has too many good qualities  to merit being dismissed  simply because people can't appreciate a tasty fruit enough to over look the fact wildlife loves it and will sometimes result in birds painting a car or two. 

I think the original range of osage orange is some what debated but it included Arkansas and
 most  likely Louisiana and maybe other states. Early  European settlers intentionally took it to places like Kansas and likely other states well before FDR. It's my supposition that native Americans had done the same thing long before the Euros care around.

I hope no one was bored but all the back ground but sometimes history just has to be told....

doc henderson

 


Mulberry end grain.  we milled a log and the owner did not know what it was.  he thought it was Osage Orange (Hedge). 

It is Mulberry

there is post where @WDH helped to ID and tell the wood from Osage.



 

ooops.  a Mulberry board in a stack of sample boards showing how it darkens with uv exposure.  the lighter area had another boards on top.



 



above Mulberry with wet finish applied





above raw Mulberry seat





Hedge "apples" under a tree with no leaves that help ID in early winter Osage.





striker of Osage, call from spalted dead standing oak.




 

turkey call and striker made from Hedge.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Walnut Beast

It's a good thing you said Hedge! I wouldn't have known what you we're talking about 😂. Actually you probably know most people in the Midwest probably wouldn't know what you we're talking about if you said Osage Orange but they would if you said Hedge row, tree and apple. Nice looking stuff!!! Hedge (Osage) also turns a really cool brown left in the sun. The striker Doc pictured looks like the natural brown it turns

doc henderson

went out and took a few Mulberry pics.  I do not have Osage in the yard.  many of the "windbreaks" had a mixture of Osage and ERC.  Mulberry is spread by birds and poss. why it is considered a weed.  
Mulberry is a favorite firewood here at about the same as oak, at 25 million BTUs per cord.  Surpassed by Osage Orange at 32 million BTUs per cord, but it tends to pop and spark, and is rumored to be so dense and hot, that a stove unattended may overfire easily.  often it is added at night and the stove air shut way down to last all night.



 

shade at my mill is a clump of Mulberry, ERC and Elm.



 

Mulberry bark.



 

MB leaves and early fruit.



 

 

 

leaves and fruit.



 

trees this close are good at slowing wind, and therefore erosion (remember the dust bowl).  this pic shows a limb of an ERC growing though the Elm trunk next to it.  some poison Ivy in the shade on the ground.  lots of these mile long Hedge rows are being taking out now that more no till farming is being done.  the piles of trees are sought after for heating wood.  
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Walnut Beast

The bark is a dead giveaway to me on the identification between the two long strips of bark on Hedge

WDH

Interestingly Doc, your mulberry is not the native red mulberry but the white mulberry that was brought over from Southeast Asia for the silk trade as silk worms feed on them.  The way to distinguish the difference between the native red mulberry and the introduced white mulberry is rubbing the top of the leaf on your cheek.  The native red mulberry is scabrous, that is the upper leaf surface is rough like sandpaper.  The upper surface of the white mulberry is as smooth as a baby's bottom.  The fruits are pretty much identical.  The wood of mulberry is one of the most beautiful to me. 

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Walnut Beast

The Osage is producing some high dollar stuff 😂. From these guys in the sap wood.

  Very nice dark brown in the sun

 

 

  

doc henderson

Danny, is the darkening an enzymatic thing with UV?  
I am not comfortable rubbing a baby bottom on my cheek!  :D :D :D 
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WDH

I understand.  It is better not to know. 

I believe that the darkening is from oxidation.  Talking about wood, not babies.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: doc henderson on June 15, 2022, 11:08:07 PM...
I am not comfortable rubbing a baby bottom on my cheek!  :D :D :D
This from a Doctor who ran a pediatric E/D for years? Trust the science Doc! :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WDH

Doc, the training for tree ID is rigorous :D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

hedgerow

Hedge in my area is you have it or you don't. Not a lot in the area. One farm we have a dozen miles from my home place has it and a bunch of it. This farm had it planted on it during the WPA days and then no one every took care of it. Elm, cotton woods, cedars, mulberry, locust and hedge overtook this 160 so bad no one would rent it. We owned the rest of the section around it so about 15 years ago the guy that owned it died and we got a chance to buy it so we did. I don't want to think about the time money and energy that has been spent cleaning this farm up. We now farm 120 of it and forty is in pasture. We are down to just about only hedge is left and the big cotton woods. I have been burning about fifteen cord of hardwood a year out of there since 2009 in my Garn to heat my house and shop. I run the Garn year around to heat my domestic. There has been some huge trunk hedge trees but none straight and tall. Hedge is a bitch to deal with. I have never seen a mulberry with a rough leaf all smooth around hear. We have no hedge on any other land we own.   

doc henderson

Yes Danny.  I bought 3 new books on tree ID as you suggested.  they are neatly stacked under my side of the bed.  I still do not know all there is to know about tree ID.  I guess I may have to resort to reading them.   :P   :o   :)   ;)   ;D
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Larry

If one were to call the wood osage orange in these parts you might be characterized as a foreigner or even worse a Yankee.  The proper name is Bodark!

I keep a few chunks on hand to make tools and kitchen utensils.  It's one of the best for those uses.

Reamers and mallets.




About 25 years ago I was shipping hundreds of square short blocks to a guy in Stuttgart Arkansas, the duck hunting capital of the entire world.  He was making duck calls.  The wood was green and I dipped the ends in hot melted paraffin wax to keep it from checking.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Walnut Beast

Very cool Larry! Love to hear about the Stories and pictures of everything everyone is making or made with it!!

doc henderson

Here we use Osage Orange (hedge or bodark is the same thing) for fence posts.  50 years in soil contact and still ok.  Mulberry not so much.  the tyloses in Hedge, white oak, and black locust make the wood more rot resistant.  the indigenous folks made bows from the bodark, and the campsite we stayed in at camp, was Osage, named after that tribe.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WDH

It is dioecious.  Unlike most tree species which produce both male and female flowers on the same plant, osage orange has male and female trees.  The boys do not produce fruit.  Mulberry is the same.  Osage orange and mulberry are in the same plant family, the Moraceace.  Mulberry was a preferred wood for airplane propellers in WWI.  Osage orange is the second hardest North American hardwood that has any commercial significance.  It is second to live oak. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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