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is this red or white oak?

Started by steveh2112, April 12, 2021, 03:05:16 PM

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steveh2112

 

 
no leaves at the moment, i'm near Boone, north carolina, about 3000' elevation

to me it looks like the white oak in this picture NOTE FROM ADMIN. LINKING TO OFFSITE PHOTOS NOT ALLOWED. PLEASE READ RULES
and the description matches white oak, but my local tree expert said red
thanks

mike_belben

theres a lot of oaks and a few other trees that have similar bark too.. but its for sure not white oak.
Praise The Lord

steveh2112

thanks, here's what may be a leaf from it, hard to know for sure and many different trees in the area

 

firefighter ontheside

Chinkapin or chestnut oak perhaps.
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steveh2112

thanks, the leaf looks very much like chestnut oak which is a member of the white oak family i think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_montana which is great, thanks

WDH

Yes, the leaf is chestnut oak.  Yes, chestnut oak is a white oak. No, your oak is not a chestnut oak or any other white oak, it is a red oak, most likely Quercus velutina, black oak.

Virginia Tech Dendrology Fact Sheet
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KEC

I would concur with Black Oak; in the Red Oak group. Note the chunky looking bark.

steveh2112

Quote from: WDH on April 12, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
Yes, the leaf is chestnut oak.  Yes, chestnut oak is a white oak. No, your oak is not a chestnut oak or any other white oak, it is a red oak, most likely Quercus velutina, black oak.

Virginia Tech Dendrology Fact Sheet
thanks, so you are saying that leaf came from another tree then. ok, thanks. i guess black oak isn't so great for outdoor use, bummer!

mike_belben

I have had that sort of cubed blocky bark pattern also on mature black gum / tupelo
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scsmith42

Quote from: steveh2112 on April 14, 2021, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: WDH on April 12, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
Yes, the leaf is chestnut oak.  Yes, chestnut oak is a white oak. No, your oak is not a chestnut oak or any other white oak, it is a red oak, most likely Quercus velutina, black oak.

Virginia Tech Dendrology Fact Sheet
thanks, so you are saying that leaf came from another tree then. ok, thanks. i guess black oak isn't so great for outdoor use, bummer!
Neither is chestnut white oak, since it is open pored.
Red oak is fine for outdoor use if you treat it with some type of preservative. We soak red oak boards with used hydraulic fluid and use them for trailer decking. The open pores allow the treatment to soak deeper into the wood, as contrasted with white oak.
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and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

WDH

Chestnut oak is classified in the white oak group because the leaves do not have spines and the acorns mature in one year while red oak leaves have spines and the acorns take two years to mature.  However, chestnut oak does not have the pore clogging tyloses.  So it is a pore white oak :)
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samandothers


steveh2112

Quote from: scsmith42 on April 18, 2021, 09:24:05 AM

Neither is chestnut white oak, since it is open pored.
Red oak is fine for outdoor use if you treat it with some type of preservative. We soak red oak boards with used hydraulic fluid and use them for trailer decking. The open pores allow the treatment to soak deeper into the wood, as contrasted with white oak.


great, good to know since i have a lot of decks planned for my house and would love to do something more useful than fire wood with the trees.
where do you find used hydraulic fluid? i guess farm equipment of heavy equipment service places?
do you dry the lumber first then soak it? i assume so, wouldn't suck up the fluid if green.  also, do you get any smell from the finished product?
thanks

scsmith42

Heavy equipment ent service places. There is not much smell in hydraulic oil and it goes away in a few weeks.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

steveh2112

ok, thanks. so what's the process? do you completely submerge the red oak in the hydraulic fluid? for how long? i'm thinking 1 1/4" x 6 boards for use as decking. and probably some 2x4 for handrails

thanks

scsmith42

For trailer decking, I'll saturate the bottom side with a mop until it won't soak any more in.  Then I install the decking and soak the top side.

If this was going to be a house deck, I'd go with a high quality deck stain such as Prolux (formerly Sikkens Cetol), TWP or Penofin.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

mike_belben

I do the same with my red oak trailer planks, usually propped ontop a 55gal drum with paintbrush before install.  Whatever mix is in the waste oil bucket.  Its just to kill bugs and displace water.
Praise The Lord

Southside

Quote from: steveh2112 on April 21, 2021, 03:59:23 PMwhere do you find used hydraulic fluid?


Usually in a puddle right at the end of a hose I just broke, but that's just me.  As far as mature acorns go, around here some are not mature at 67 years of age.... @WDH   :D
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WDH

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Magicman

Quote from: Southside on April 27, 2021, 08:02:30 AMAs far as mature acorns go, around here some are not mature at 67 years of age
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olcowhand

Quote from: Southside on April 27, 2021, 08:02:30 AM
Quote from: steveh2112 on April 21, 2021, 03:59:23 PMwhere do you find used hydraulic fluid?


Usually in a puddle right at the end of a hose I just broke, but that's just me.  As far as mature acorns go, around here some are not mature at 67 years of age.... @WDH   :D
I see what you did there.....
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stavebuyer

I agree with what has been said about the leaf belonging to a Chestnut Oak and not the tree in the Red Oak family pictured. I think your tree is probably a Scarlet Oak and as such I wouldn't be real optimistic about the lumber. Scarlet Oak retains its dead limbs in a manner similar to Pin Oak; and is noted for ant nests.

Texas Ranger

nuts seem to mature at varying ages.
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mike_belben

What SB said.  Without leaves the only giveaway on scarlet oak i can tell is if you blur your eyes a bit youll see the white splotches in the furrows are arranged as short vertical whitish streaks.  When it leafs out the pointy leaves with narrow fingers spread by deep gulfs is the giveaway.   Its like a chain of floridas or italy's around the leaf.

The lumber sucks. Great FW.  I cull scarlets.  Heart free trailer decking is best use i have.. And mine tends toward shake and insect holes in addition to a dirt chimney up the heart. 
Praise The Lord

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