The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: Woodhauler on March 14, 2016, 03:00:15 PM

Title: How many left???
Post by: Woodhauler on March 14, 2016, 03:00:15 PM
With Madison on its way out, How many are left in maine making paper? Sappi, Verso for now, Catalyst, And Woodland. Maybe one in the county? Fraser paper? Many guys are going to fold up after mud season. Wood prices will continue to plummet. Spruce and Fir market is gone now. Sappi has a long term deal with plum creek to take all there softwood. They gave them the deal when they bought sappi woodland. A once proud industry in Maine is on the brink of destruction!!
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: rick f on March 14, 2016, 05:03:19 PM
SAD just plan sad our industries are going down the tubes.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Peter Drouin on March 14, 2016, 07:52:04 PM
You can't sell Spruce and Fir saw logs? What about cedar?
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Woodhauler on March 14, 2016, 07:54:54 PM
You can't sell Spruce and Fir saw logs? What about cedar?
There is still a log market, but the trickle down effect will be bad. My thoughts are price will keep dropping on everything.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Ken on March 14, 2016, 08:13:44 PM
New Brunswick had several softwood pulp mills a decade ago.  Now we have one in the south and one in the north.  Both of them are too far away from me to make it worthwhile to ship it there.  Therefore we have been leaving softwood pulp on the ground for a while now.  Sucks when you have already done most of the work with a tree but can't merchandise the last bit. 
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: starmac on March 14, 2016, 08:34:05 PM
We only had one pulp market to start with, they are still takeing a little wood (why I have no idea) as their yard is so full lots of it will rot before it is ever chipped.

Most loggers didn't leave the pulp in the woods here anyway, what I am worried about is the mill (only mill) has probably 2 years worth of logs in the yard right now and more comeing in everyday till weight restrictions go on.
Hard to say what next year will bring.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: timberlinetree on March 15, 2016, 06:22:59 AM
We need the companies to stay in the USA and provide jobs! And less handouts so people will work!
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Bert on March 15, 2016, 08:45:37 AM
Coal mines are having the same fate in our part of the country. Many mills are folding up without the orders for blocking. No steel and no coal is not good for business. Im gonna try to hang on for awhile.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 15, 2016, 02:47:23 PM
Coal mines are having the same fate in our part of the country. Many mills are folding up without the orders for blocking. No steel and no coal is not good for business. Im gonna try to hang on for awhile.

   My neighbor used to buy wedge blocks from me. I could cut saw logs or such and sell him the tops and big limbs down to 6" diameter. I usually sold him 12" long blocks, sometimes he'd want 15 or 16 inch long blocks. Also lots of folks sold crib blocks and such. Locust from 5' up was much in demand. I guess all was used for bracing in the mines. Has been no market for many years with current administration. So another side industry gone. I hate it especially now that I have my sawmill as would have been a good market for the tops and big limbs. Neighbor liked poplar and any soft wood I came across.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: loggah on March 15, 2016, 04:47:30 PM
Im pretty sad about the logging industry in Northern New England, It has been getting worse for the last 20 years in Northern N.H. ,with no pulp mills left, and i'm afraid Maine is headed in the same direction. When i was logging i was also in the excavation business,figured out years ago not to keep all my eggs in one basket. hopefully things will turn around. Don
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Woodhauler on March 15, 2016, 05:47:48 PM
Went to Madison this morning for the last time, Guys running cranes in the yard act like nothing is wrong!! He said see you next week! I said I don't think there is a next week here! Thursday is last day for wood.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Jhenderson on March 15, 2016, 06:00:55 PM
Ignorance is bliss.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Gary_C on March 15, 2016, 06:18:19 PM
I wonder how much of this mill closing is due to the expiration of the Canadian Softwood Lumber Agreement? Everyone has said there is going to be a flood of softwood coming from Canada.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: David-L on March 15, 2016, 08:04:38 PM
When things like Nafta and some of the other deals these politicians come up with to line there pockets the small guy always loses. Very sad state of affairs for those of us who love makin a living off the land and its renewable resources it offers. Example, worked all winter cutting beautiful pine, have done some mud season repairs to the skidder and broke again. Just not enough profit in the end product when theres all these middle people involved. Sorry to rant gentlemen. Happy Saint Pats day all.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Woodhauler on March 15, 2016, 09:05:11 PM
I wonder how much of this mill closing is due to the expiration of the Canadian Softwood Lumber Agreement? Everyone has said there is going to be a flood of softwood coming from Canada.
I'm sorry but the biggest reason these mills going out is lack of use of paper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  All of us depend on the world wide web for our news, paying bills banking , sending letters to friends family, When is the last time you wrote a letter and sent it? Had pictures printed? Sent your payments in the mail??? I can go on and on!! We are a paperless country now.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: peterpaul on March 15, 2016, 09:11:13 PM
I spent my working career in the paper industry and left/retired in 2004.  When I started in 1973 the camaraderie in the industry just blew my mind.  My focus was fine paper.  It amazed me that competitors would be so open to help solve one another's problems.  Then in the early 90's, things started to change.  More off shore competition, less civility, and, and.  Then the late 90's thru the early 2000s in order to increase market share, merger mania took place followed by shutted mills.  For me, it ended when a mill in Brazil or Indonesia could put a ream of cut-size paper on the street in Chicago for less $ then a mill in WI.  I made a great living and provided for my family, was blessed with many friends and experiences.  I attended the school of "hard knocks" and cherished it.  I am so sorry to hear of all the mill closings, not only for those who are multi generational Company employees, but for the entire infrastructure that each mill supports.  Where does that leave next generation?  I always looked at it as one mill directly supports a 200 mile radius and many more suppliers of equipment such as myself, that it becomes a giant pyramid.  For what ever reason, our "bean counters" have focused on quick profits vs. long term sustainability.  All the equipment manufacturers that I worked for or represented have gone belly up.  Very sad indeed.  I share your pain.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Woodhauler on March 15, 2016, 09:14:17 PM
I spent my working career in the paper industry and left/retired in 2004.  When I started in 1973 the camaraderie in the industry just blew my mind.  My focus was fine paper.  It amazed me that competitors would be so open to help solve one another's problems.  Then in the early 90's, things started to change.  More off shore competition, less civility, and, and.  Then the late 90's thru the early 2000s in order to increase market share, merger mania took place followed by shutted mills.  For me, it ended when a mill in Brazil or Indonesia could put a ream of cut-size paper on the street in Chicago for less $ then a mill in WI.  I made a great living and provided for my family, was blessed with many friends and experiences.  I attended the school of "hard knocks" and cherished it.  I am so sorry to hear of all the mill closings, not only for those who are multi generational Company employees, but for the entire infrastructure that each mill supports.  Where does that leave next generation?  I always looked at it as one mill directly supports a 200 mile radius and many more suppliers of equipment such as myself, that it becomes a giant pyramid.  For what ever reason, our "bean counters" have focused on quick profits vs. long term sustainability.  All the equipment manufacturers that I worked for or represented have gone belly up.  Very sad indeed.  I share your pain.
If you are not making a profit why stay in the game??? Its the way it goes! If I can't make a profit hauling wood I'm done Game over!!!!
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: thecfarm on March 15, 2016, 09:18:48 PM
I use to live in a paper mill town.Than I moved about 10 minutes away.  ;D I'm about 45 minutes from Rumford,20 minutes from Verso,Jay.Otis mill,Jay,Chisholm,if you have some age to ya, was only 15 minutes away,about an hour from Madison,Sappi,maybe an hour. That's about all I know. Seem like Winslow had one?? Maybe an hour from there too? I have no idea what will happen. Not much for jobs in this area.Well jobs that pay more than $10 an hour.  ::)
I can't argue about imports on paper, or how the paper can made cheaper someplace else. BUT I use to work in a factory,if they could make it cheaper someplace else,they did it. Yes,the jobs stayed in the states,but many machines was sent to OH. Also many countries are slack on thier pollation laws. The town I live in lost about 20 jobs because the smell of the glue would cost too much to remove and make better air for the workers. Send it over seas and let them breath in the fumes.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: David-L on March 15, 2016, 09:19:04 PM
I get charged by some of my vendors for paying by check. Imagine that. Goods coming into this country should be taxed and that would change the playing field.
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: timberlinetree on March 16, 2016, 05:23:28 AM
I agree! It should be tax time for them not us! It's not just in the woods. Marcia might loss her job unless we want to move to India. :-\
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: snowstorm on March 16, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
verso and madison asked for a tariff on paper from canada and got it. a short time later verso stops buying ground wood now madison closes. so dose the tariff continue? the tariff was for paper from portahaksbury irving and catlist
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: HiTech on March 17, 2016, 06:48:54 AM
Look at anyone under 40. They can't function without a cell phone stuck in their hand. Some young people can't even tell time...give them a watch and ask them what time it is, they are clueless, they have to use them handhelds. Digital. Many newspapers folded because they switched times of delivery. It used to be a kids job to deliver papers in the afternoon. You could come home read the paper and get ready to eat. Then some important people needed a paper under their arm while carrying their $3 cup of coffee around. If anyone wants to get rich open a coffee shop. Put in a couple varieties of good doughnuts and count the cash. Millions and Millions of dollars are spent by people buying coffee on the way to work. Instead of making it at home. People are just too entitled today. I have seen time and again people buy a soda, drink a little then throw the rest away because it got warm. Why not put it someplace to stay cold? It is Sad where our country is headed but whose fault is it?
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: Woodhauler on March 17, 2016, 08:09:30 AM
I just googled paper mills that have closed in the last 5 years in the us, Its a long long list!!!!
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: enigmaT120 on March 17, 2016, 02:39:55 PM
Where is the paper being made?  The place where I work goes through tons of paper, as people seem to think they have to print out every email and all their stuff every day.  It's Georgia Pacific brand, says "Made in the U.S.A.", but I don't know where the mills are any more.  I think there are still some in Oregon.

Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: HiTech on March 17, 2016, 05:44:41 PM
I have a feeling many are in South America...the rain forest is being devastated. That will be a climate changer when that is gone. Hourly wages are probably pennies and no government control, vacations or health insurance. The CEO's of these companies are literally pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars. They say the rain forest will not grow back. At least we got fast food joints here. 
Title: Re: How many left???
Post by: lopet on March 17, 2016, 10:26:43 PM
whose fault is it?

I would say    Woodrow Wilson's.      No offense here, but seriously  we all know that things are out of whack.

Here is a video of Mike Maloney which explains our monetary system pretty good.   You don't have to agree with all this, but it doesn't hurt to watch it.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0