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Author Topic: Domestic mutt or coydog?  (Read 4611 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Domestic mutt or coydog?
« on: April 20, 2021, 08:13:53 AM »









Im about 3days into rehabbing this dog and wondering if its not full canine.  I thought maybe a pitbull or bull terriers blocky skull and shorthair, with tall, stiff shepherd ears and dual fur layers.  maybe some mountain cur donated that bony frame and long skinny forearms.. those are all common of the self breeding pack mutts that run all around here.  The snout is narrow for a pit and wide for a coyote. Im starting to think the stiff ears that never move...long furry low tail that never sways, and straight forearms with no taper, the arched back when seeking scent...might be coyote features.




 Ive seen all sort of temperments in domestic dog but none even close to this one.


Behaves like a wild animal and by all accounts is living wild among the predators and parasites.  Shes extremely calm, has shown no aggression to humans or other dog nor any playfullness.  Strictly business with this dog which boils down to eat, bed, sleep and slink away.  Doesnt even pay any mind to conventional sounds, like snaps calls, squeeks, kisses or sweet talk.  Uninterested in my other dog.

She seems to want light companionship from me at 3feet, will reluctantly follow me, but shows no signs of wanting to be pet and has never wagged a tail or shown any sign of dominance or submission.  More like a forlorn independence.. "Im hungry and dont mind your company but i dont need you." 


She is leery of being touched other than on the snout or head.  Has eaten from my hand gently but is also reluctant to do so.  I have never seen her teeth or heard her make a sound.  Its like an old doe more than a dog.  Just lays down in a coil and beds in complete silence. She has a very energy conserving demeanor, like a starving deer.   Moves as slow and minimal as possible.


What do you think?




































Isaiah 63:10

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2021, 08:24:28 AM »
I do not know the answer, but if raised/survived in the wild, may not be socialized like human associated puppies.  good luck, and be careful with your kids.  May not want company but to hungry to avoid it.  It may be the greatest pet you ever had.  watch for kid trying to wrap arms around her and give a hug.  may just be a one man dog. 
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Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2021, 08:29:24 AM »
Looks well fed.
How big is it?
The First 60 some years of childhood is always the hardest.

Offline Nebraska

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2021, 08:31:10 AM »
Here she would be a rez dog. A well mixed mix.. Seems she chose you.  I would make a pen of cattle panels  outside of a shed and feed her in there and gradually  get her to the point you can handle her and you can close it for short periods of time.    She will come around I bet. I agree with Doc's apprensions about kids and other folks. 

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2021, 08:53:45 AM »
  I'm with others on whether it is pure dog or coyote mix. My little Rat Terrier Sampson was 9 months old when I got him and had never been socialized. The owner fed and watered him but never petted or played with him. He will only come to or let me or my wife pet him. He has never snapped at others wanting to pet him but he does not like it and when not on a leash others can't touch him. After a few days with us the grandkids can pet him but he never seeks their attention, just allows it.

   Yours looks pretty well fed and healthy if she is truly a feral animal. Good luck with calming and gentling her. Does she bark - you said she never makes a sound so I assume not. Have you had her around other dogs? Do you know how she reacts to them?

   When I was a kid we had one that was pretty wild and I eventually gentled him. The final step to get to pet him was jealousy. He'd get close but not let me pet him. I'd call my other dog (There was no dog aggression on either's part) and pet her and this one would come closer and closer till he was by my side then rolled on his back when I'd pet him. After a couple of sessions of that he'd come right to me and rush to beat the other dogs for attention.

   Good luck. 
Howard Green
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2021, 09:39:58 AM »
if you look at the pic with the fence wire.. thats 6x6 inch fence holes and a cut down McCafe coffee can for a bowl.  and her body isnt any wider than it. a black dog is hard to photo in the sun.  especially with a pitbull face, the contrast of shadow makes lumps look like ripples of muscles when theyre really joints and bones and sockets covered in skin and a winter coat.  she has zero fat. her coat is quite nice for wild but she is definitely starving hungry.. im sure the worms are eating most of what ive fed her which has been quite a lot.


so my experience started with her coming to the fence for a few days where i toss scraps that i dont want in my burn barrel to be scattered, or in my septic to clog.  my own identical looking black pitbull named bella checked her out (this wild dog is named pity or piti.. short for pitiful.. and me taking pity on her) and there was zero drama. they were nose to nose at a fence they could both get their heads through and no barking or challenge.  just about touched noses for a minute and both parted nonchalant.  neither seems challenged or threatened.


so i started feeding this starving creature since the Lord has fed me when i was pitiful.  she has eaten gently out of my hand.. gentler than my own dog that sleeps inside. so thats good.  

one day she didnt show up and i figured she got eaten by one of the 3 or 4 yote packs.  yesterday she came back.  i got some mini milk bones and went around to that part of the fence and sat in the abandoned dirt driveway.  she wouldnt close the distance until i started halving it with bones.  she had one from my palm, and the last one was with her head going through a loop but she backed out  and put some distance before i could gently close it up.   before long im out of bones and we are just sitting in the shade on the dirt about 5 feet apart, for like 20 or 30 minutes.  she just lays out and closes her eyes. a very sleepy dog. soon as she is comfortable its nap.. every time.   so i get up and walk away.. and she follows at 30 feet but wont come all the way with me.

i call for the boy to get me the bowl and food, and i get it at the fence.  now shes interested.  i let her eat out of the bowl while i hold it a minute.. then i remove it and walk away.  zero sounds, no aggression, fully docile. she follows cautiously.  let her eat some more.  repeat until we have walked into my open gate.  i put the food in the center then when shes on it i circle back and close the gate.  shes cautious but not too scared.  

she was captive inside my 1 acre "pen" about 2 hours, during which time momma and me introduced very cautiously and at a minimum of 30 ft distance, the kids and bella on a leash. i had a pistol just incase but pity has simply no concern about any of it.  id almost wonder if she was blind and mute except she definitely isnt.  2 times i have encountered lone does that let me in their proximity like this and it feels very similar except i didnt feed does.  i have never heard pity make a noise.  not even a stick crack. she slinks in silence.


so at one point im on a stool and shes fully sprawled, eye closed in the sun 2 feet away.. im just barely petting her snout or forehead with a fingertip and she is neutral about it.  not pulling back or leaning in. and shes just got her eyes closed.  the ticks are huge, pregnant, little ones are crawling on her fur and its driving me nuts.  ive got some permethrin horse spray and decide i need to try to treat this mess before it spreads to bella.  well with the first spritz of that Pity was out, straight to a single broken link of the fence i hadnt noticed.. she wiggled through a 6x8 hole like shes done it every night.. probably in the process of scattering my burn barrel through a rust hole that keeps growing.  aha. no wonder she wasnt too scared of being in the yard.  she went right back to our normal meeting spot and bedded there until dark without making a sound, then disappeared probably to a den.  she has very long dew claws but all of her toe nails are very short.. in my experience thats a digger.

yesterday i gave her a cure-all pill in a piece of bread.  heartworm, dewormer, flea tick mite etc.  i hope to see her looking better and better in time.  and next time i wont rush her trust.  im treating her like a racoon rather than a dog.  since she shows no emotion the teeth may come before a sound.  kids obviously are dying to run to her but im not allowing it until its a vet tested and approved dog if ever.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2021, 09:51:11 AM »
what my gut is telling me, is that this is a wild living critter with good instincts for survival that are ever present.  but that mode is struggling to suppress centuries of domesticated instincts it cant fully hold back when in my presence.  its getting a glimpse of comfort in the midst of its uncomfortable, rugged, hungry life.  fully wild deer, particularly does, will always bed in the securest feeling spot they can find in close proximity to food and water, and pity seems just the same.  

a domesticated stray runs right into your house as soon as you let it smell food. this dog will not go near my door.  im sure its always watching that spot i emerge from whenever robbing my trash.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Corley5

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2021, 09:54:06 AM »
  You're a good man Mike :) :)  If she allows herself to be rescued she'll make a good dog.  I've heard that coy dogs are very paranoid :-\  
  We've got a dog nicknamed named Piddy.  It's short for stupid  ;) ;D :)  Her actual name is Roxie.  She responds to both names :D ;D  She's a really good dog and means well but isn't the brightest dog we've ever had :) :)  Mountain Dog Cocker Spaniel mix she is. 
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2021, 10:06:40 AM »
pid short for stupid  :D :D

thanks corley.  this is the kinda dog you see with impeccable behavior, following a hobo across a walmart parking lot or a busy 6 lane intersection, backpack 7feet high, smelly junk clanging all over with a dog thats never been collared.  they are so serious about survival they just dont screw around.  
Isaiah 63:10

Offline barbender

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM »
I'm not seeing any 'yote blood, but I've certainly been wrong before. Definitely pitbull blood in te mix. I live on a reservation and you see a lot of semi-wild dogs like that in the villages. Some act just as you describe, Mike.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline alan gage

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2021, 11:25:10 AM »
From my limited experience I'd say once the dog puts some meat on its bones its energy levels will pick up considerably.

Alan
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Offline Runningalucas

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2021, 11:33:23 AM »
I think somewhere in Tennessee, or Kentucky, are natural wild dogs; millennias old.  There are a few breeds of these types of dogs out there; the Alaskan Malamute is one, as well as the Mexican Xolo; both going back thousands of years.  We happened to pick a dying puppy off the road in 'no where' Mexico; turned out to be a Xolo.  We paid 3000 pesos in vet bills saving it's life, and now we've got our dog!  She's going on 13, and every time we take her to the vet, the vet stands amazed at her physique; which is layered muscle, and narrow snout.  The vet said that the layering was unique to basically 'habitat' wild dogs.  I see a lot of those same 'layers', and breed type stuff going on in that dog you have.

No idea what you've got there,  but I think the super muscular body, mixed with a narrowing jaw line, is for digging small burrowing prey out of the ground.  I cannot say for your dog, but Mexico, and Central America are loaded with wild dogs; when a native starts feeding them, they'll hang around out in the street permanently, and will mess anyone up who comes near their meal ticket in an aggressive way.
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2021, 11:33:48 AM »
I can see spine and ribs.   when she is full each day and back to normal weight, maybe her true personality may shine through.  she may make a great pet, or may be tolerating everyone now for a good supply of food.  who knows where she came from and what she endured, possibly at the hands of humans.  hard to know where she thinks she fall in the pecking order.  so far not at the top, but also not at the bottom.  As a pediatric ED doc, I have seen the worst doc attacks on children, never to be the same.  so I am slanted that way.  Mike you are a good dad, and in touch with animals.  it will be a judgement that you will make.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2021, 11:40:52 AM »
Mike,

   I try to sneak in some wormer in some soft feed for her. You might even get her to eat some pills or powder that help remove ticks and fleas until she gentles enough you can spray or put a flea collar on her.

   My wildlife professor (Dr. Keith Causey - Head of the Wildlife Dept) at AU a couple hundred years ago when I went there, did his doctorate thesis on Wild Dogs in Ala. I read it in the Journal of Wildlife Management and one of his findings was that the wild dogs he studied had to have a supplemental food supply. They would scrounge and catch some of their food but didn't catch or find enough to survive indefinitely. One source he found for one pack was a landfill. Another was a TV tower where birds would fly into the guy wires and kill or injure themselves. One of the first things he had to do in his study was distinguish between a free ranging dog that had a home to go back to and a totally feral dog that ran at the first contact with any human.

   I think you will eventually get her tamed and it could be a very rewarding experience but I think you will have to have more patience than a goat farmer to complete the task. Keep us posted.
Howard Green
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Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2021, 11:49:47 AM »
Running Lucas reminded me of a tale our guide in Peru told us. He took an American out in the jungle to photograph jaguars. I think he had game cameras set out to photograph them. He tried to buy 2 roosters from a village to stake out and attract the cats. The roosters would crow at each other all day and attract the cats. The village did not have any spare roosters they sell so he bought a puppy to tie out. The howling and whining would do the same thing. They'd tie the puppy out and go back to camp and each morning they'd wake up and find the puppy by the fire waiting for breakfast. The one night he did not chew through his rope a jaguar did come by but the puppy kept his mouth shut and did not get noticed and survived. The happy ending was the American tourist fell in love with the puppy, dropped it with a vet for treatment and quarantine and finally flew it to the USA. He spent several hundred if not thousands of dollars getting the puppy home but he had a happy forever home in the end. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Runningalucas

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2021, 12:09:40 PM »
I can see spine and ribs.   when she is full each day and back to normal weight, maybe her true personality may shine through.  she may make a great pet, or may be tolerating everyone now for a good supply of food.  who knows where she came from and what she endured, possibly at the hands of humans.  hard to know where she thinks she fall in the pecking order.  so far not at the top, but also not at the bottom.  As a pediatric ED doc, I have seen the worst doc attacks on children, never to be the same.  so I am slanted that way.  Mike you are a good dad, and in touch with animals.  it will be a judgement that you will make.
Children move awkwardly; any dog of prey, even well trained can be lead astray by the very distinct movement of small children.  On top of that, most parents, let alone their kids, truly have no clue about what a dog is saying by it's posturing, and expressions.  The worst morons are the ones who lean in with their faces, or move in quickly for a quick, "good boy petting action'. 
Dogs are cute, and cuddly for cold weather, not to be handled like a teddy bear; people need to remember that, and also that they have those big teeth for tearing meat, and tissue apart.  I guess more specifically, people need to learn respect for an animal who has it's own line of thoughts.
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2021, 12:51:57 PM »
I agree.  dogs still have genetic ingrained qualities, like many hunting dogs that do it naturally.  some breeds are one man dogs.  they really only take correction from the alpha in a pinch.  pets need to be socialized and even then may place themselves above the children in the pack they have adopted.  Out German shepherd has a bark that tells me someone is in the yard and or drive.  I go see who it is.  some who do not know us hesitate to get out of their car, and that is fine with me.  I can call her back if she is at the front property line barking at a dog being walked.  If I get a shady guy trying to coat my driveway and his partner starts walking around and looking at my property, I tell them not to come in the yard cause if I was not home, they may get bit.  
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2021, 01:06:48 PM »
These type of dog/man meetings go case by case. Dog not raised by human hands and not real young makes it tough especially if children are around [many grown ups are children also]  Wild dogs are wormy and never had shots and worst of all may not be trusted when they get a belly full . {also like some humans]. I either dig a hole or adopt it. This opinion coms from experience both good and bad. Whatever , man needs to be responsible.

Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2021, 01:45:40 PM »
I agree.  dogs still have genetic ingrained qualities, like many hunting dogs that do it naturally.  some breeds are one man dogs.  they really only take correction from the alpha in a pinch.  pets need to be socialized and even then may place themselves above the children in the pack they have adopted.  Out German shepherd has a bark that tells me someone is in the yard and or drive.  I go see who it is.  some who do not know us hesitate to get out of their car, and that is fine with me.  I can call her back if she is at the front property line barking at a dog being walked.  If I get a shady guy trying to coat my driveway and his partner starts walking around and looking at my property, I tell them not to come in the yard cause if I was not home, they may get bit.  
Never, ever, never and then still don't tell someone that they may get bit, ever, never. You tell them that your dog is a guard or a working dog and it takes it's job seriously. If you tell someone or have signs that says your dog bites etc, you are admitting that your dog is dangerous and you made it much easier for the ambulance chasing lawyer to sue the local doctor....... Just my 74.392 cents worth.....

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Domestic mutt or coydog?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2021, 02:47:38 PM »
It is reserved for the guys who cannot stand still, and mouth is moving even when they are not talking.  the latest one has cleaned up, but still has the movement.  My dog has never bit anyone, but does bark.  a little fear is ok.  This guy knocked on the shop door but was parked in front of the house and must of got my daughter at the door, who sent him to the shop.  I do not want him coming to the house when I a not home.  He can listen or not.  If comes in the middle of the night, he will wish for the dog.  she (Libby) always lets us know if there is an animal in the yard.  I appreciate what you are saying, and as I said, the neighbors go past and walk in the drive way with no fear.  Libby even barks at me when I drive in.  funny thing, is when she hears an alert on our life 360 that someone is home, she barks and goes to the door.  I guess she needs a cell phone.  dogs are still basically animals and look after the pack.  The worst is grandmas dog, and the grand kids come over to visit and hug the old dog, not accustomed to children.  If someone comes into my yard and the hair on my neck stands up (methy senses) then I make it clear for them to not just drop in day or night.  
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor


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