John Deere 440c woes

[Woodschopper]

Hello friends,

I have a John Deere 440c grapple skidder. I've owned it for approximately 8 months and am impressed with its capability. I used it all winter long up until mud season with zero issues, Parked it for hay season and now have returned to the woods doing contract work for an Amish mill. Right away I began having heat issues, after a turn or two in the woods I'd have to let it idle to cool off before being able to make another pass, eventually having to drop it down a gear to prolong the inevitable over heating. By about noon each day it becomes impossible to keep it from reaching the 220 degree mark. I ordered a reman water pump, two 180 degree thermostats, and fresh coolant. Today I replaced all those parts, made sure fan belts were tight etc and went back to the woods. It immediately worked its way up to 190 degrees and slowly climbed through out the two pulls I made, eventually coming close to 220. I'm at my wits end, I don't know what to do and I need to be able to get some wood produced. Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you!
Woodschopper

[Firewoodjoe]

If it's pumping and your not building pressure or swapping coolant and oil id take the hood off and try it. Maybe the radiator is getting plugged. Inside or even outside. 

[Wlmedley]

Sounds like a airflow problem.Make sure you are getting good airflow through the radiator and make sure sides and top and bottom are sealed so air has to go through radiator and exit,not recirculate back through radiator.This was a common problem with Komatsu equipment and I suspect John Deere would be no different.Good luck.

[Log-it-up]

Would try cleaning out the radiator with a garden hose I would try and avoid full spray it could bend the fins over and make the problem worse/ you could use air Todo the same thing 
And wich way dose the fan blow air it should be sucking air from the front and pushing it back towards the motor some times people would put reverse fans on for winter use to help keep the engines warm 

[Woodschopper]

I cleaned out the radiator fins with a garden hose and heavy duty degreaser before changing the water pump. It has a pusher fan on it, pushing the heat out and away from the engine bay, I had thought all 440c's had pusher fans?

[teakwood]

Also Radiatores get build up in the inside and slowly reduce flow by over the years. I had a radiator from a car opened here once and guy who specialized in such matters cleaned it out with a long flexible metal plate, like a spring coil from a chain saw pull start device, and then put the top back on the radiator and sealed it back up.

Latino ingenuity, repair it instead of new :D  

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Use a radiator tank thermometer to verify if your dash gauge is reading correctly. Usually at the 220 degree range the coolant is at the boiling point and is over pressuring the cooling system. 

[newoodguy78]

I have one of those pistol grip laser type temperature guns. They work great for isolating where the heat is building. Simply checking the top and bottom radiator hose temp tells the tale pretty quick if the radiator is plugged up. 
Like mentioned above have seen the temperature guages and sending units go bad.

[Log-it-up]

No not all the 440 I had pulled the air. I think there two different ways to look at the fan the engine builds heat and is basically enclosed in a metal box I would rather have the cooler air even if it is 90 out side it's still colder than cooling the radiator down with 200+/- degree that's in the engine compartment down fall is it pushes all the warm air back towards the operator 

[Wlmedley]

I agree with Log-it-up.You to bring air in though front of radiator and exit out engine compartment.Engine compartment air is a lot hotter than outside air.As a heavy equipment mechanic for 45 years heating problems were a lot of times the hardest to solve.

[Woodschopper]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I'm gonna pull the radiator out tomorrow and take it to a shop, see what they find. If I were to order a pull fan, where would I do that?

[BargeMonkey]

Randy Nason. "Harold's in Maine". 
207-942-9331  There's 3x of us here with 2x 440Ds and a 440C local, everything is coming from him, excellent to deal with and who I would call for parts. 

[Log-it-up]

I know this might sound a little crazy but with past experience on race cars We did not run a thermostat just a disk to reduce water flow because the water can actually circulate to fast and not cool down and with the double thermostat in those 440 it lets a lot of coolant pass quickly when open if you get the radiator clean and reverse fan it might be worth putting 180 degree thermostat in one side and maybe a 200 degree on other so when it gets hot it can have full flow 
This is just a theory,maybe Wlmedley has thoughts on this or your local mechanic 

[Woodschopper]

Yesterday I pulled the radiator and took it to a local shop, guess I'll hear back by tomorrow. I also called Harolds logging supply in Maine and talked to Randy. The New England accent is wonderful, not something found here in Michigan. He said to stick with the Pusher fan I have and to check the hydraulic system for overheating as well, especially being a grapple skidder. When I find out what the radiator man has to say I'll keep you all updated. Thanks again everyone.

[Woodschopper]

Update:

Got my radiator back, flushed out, fins deep cleaned. Radiator man said it wasn't too dirty which is sad news. I put the radiator back in, filled up with coolant + some additives and fired it up with the cap off. I ran it for about 20 minutes at 50% throttle and watched the coolant. Never could get it hot enough to get the thermostat to open. I reassembled everything and started skidding trees. It started getting hot pretty quickly and I had to stop working again at 220 degrees. I'm leaning towards a leaking head gasket. :(

[chep]

Is the thermostat working? 

[rusticretreater]

Also, does the thermostat housing have a bleed screw?  

[tacks Y]

Not saying head gasket is causing your problem but was told they are a problem on the 276. When I tore mine down the gasket had been leaking also, I made sure to re torque it after running. I have the same engine in a hoe and never any problems.

[snowstorm]

Update:

Got my radiator back, flushed out, fins deep cleaned. Radiator man said it wasn't too dirty which is sad news. I put the radiator back in, filled up with coolant + some additives and fired it up with the cap off. I ran it for about 20 minutes at 50% throttle and watched the coolant. Never could get it hot enough to get the thermostat to open. I reassembled everything and started skidding trees. It started getting hot pretty quickly and I had to stop working again at 220 degrees. I'm leaning towards a leaking head gasket. :(

before you throw more money and parts at this it could be less expensive to hire someone that knows deere engines to look at it? you said you downshift to slow the over heating= your lugging the motor. is it really running 220? a temp gun or a new gauge. could it be a head gasket? its possible. is it as simple as just a new gasket? no its not. at the very least its surface the head and have the valves done. if the liners are ok. head gasket seals to the liners. there are lots of things it could be

[Wlmedley]

I would try to find a good John Deere engine man to check it also.To many possibilities to throw parts at it.Like I said before ,heating problems are probably the hardest to troubleshoot.Head gaskets blown would either put compression in radiator or water in crankcase or compression in crankcase or any of the above to external area around head .A lot of possibilities.Someone familiar with engine might know common problem areas .I do not.Could be something simple none of us has thought of.

[Woodschopper]

Thank you all for your responses again. I've stressed over the engine enough and like your idea of calling someone with some experience. 

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Generally speaking head gasket failure equals coolant loss and is usually accompanied by bubbles in the cooling system. Most times this compression leak into the cooling system give the illusion of overheating as the antifreeze wants to puke out the radiator cap due over pressuring and coolant foaming. Two scenarios possible here.

If the temperature of the upper radiator tank is below boiling a compression leak is suspect.
If it is above boiling a defective thermostat has to be ruled out first.

There is another possibility for overheating under load and that is the fuel system. It's not uncommon for a high hour Roosa-Master pump to have problems in the governor and timing advance department. If the injector timing is retarded under load it can cause the engine to run warm. If you have the pump checked do the injectors also.

[newoodguy78]

Napa sells a kit that will test for combustion gases in the coolant. We had a ford tractor here that was prone to overheating, was kind of at wits end with it as far as not being able to figure out the cause. A friend tipped me off to it and picked one up sure enough it showed an accurate assessment. 

If I remember correctly it was only about 30 bucks. Worth every penny in my opinion. 
That tractor about drove me crazy, simply because it wouldn't overheat all the time but often enough you knew something was up. 
Sure enough when I ended up pulling the head the gasket was bad. 

Going after a head gasket is always my last resort and make sure everything else is ruled out first. 

[Mountain_d]

I did not see mention if you tried it without a thermostat, as a test. Is it possible the new thermostat is in backwards? 
Mountain. 

[Ed_K]

 I liked mountain-d's responce don't ask me why  ;D :(.