Going rate for standing ERC

[Sedgehammer]

I need a bunch of cedar and a chance came up to buy some standing . The landowner wants them gone , but he's asking if they have value standing . I'll cut them and he'll help load them . He about 90 minutes from me . I'll trailer them to my yard and have a guy come in and mill them

Thanks

[doc henderson]

around here that is hard to say.  most folks want them gone enough to pay you to take them.  I have a PA that is clearing cedars, and I get about 200 logs at a shot, limbed, on the ground 20 feet long.  I mill him trim stuff, and stock for raised beds.  all that was about 10 of his logs.  I think in a city area, it might bring something if several mills want it.  Most people i know say i am the only one they know with a mill.  I am a hobby guy.  I think if he wants them gone, and you will help cut and haul away the bulk of the trunk, he may be happy.  It is a lot of work to limb up an ERC.  I find it easier to use a pole saw to reach in and begin cutting limbs.  you have to remove as you go, or risk tripping and it wears you out.  then fall the tree.  then cut the rest of the limbs.  I think if you were making money on the deal you could share, but for your own use, it may be enough that you a taking the trees.  Sounds like you want to be fair.  

[Ianab]

Amount of trees matter too.  If it's 10 trees, chances are no commercial operation is going to be interested, which limits the value of the trees. Now if there are 1,000 trees then it might be worth moving machinery in and harvesting them? 

Otherwise it's getting a land clearing or tree service, and they will be charging $$ to make the trees "go away". 

That leaves the gap for the hobby guys like us. Yes we can remove the trees, and take the logs as payment. Of course that leaves the options open to give the landowner "something", some sawed boards to make outdoor furniture or a fence etc. 

[LeeB]

This is what one buyer heere is paying. These are prices delivered to the mill. The price for stumpage around here for it is generally 1/3 to the land owner and 2/3 to the cutter. 

 

[Cedarman]

We are paying $.65 on cedar scale now. Up from, $.45, then $.50, then $.55, now $.65.
$130 /ton tree length.
And I am not paying the most.
Have very few logs coming in now, so out scouting for trees to cut.
Normally 1/3 owner, 2/3 us.
In Oklahoma going rate for clearing cedar is from$75 to $100 per acre and the land owner pays.
We take the whole tree and grind.  Down trees are free, but take all.
There are quite a few good cedars in different patches that are not limby to the ground.
NRCS might help you find some of them.
If you are cutting the best and leaving the rest, it would be fair to pay the land owner something.

[Sedgehammer]

We are paying $.65 on cedar scale now. Up from, $.45, then $.50, then $.55, now $.65.
$130 /ton tree length.
And I am not paying the most.
Have very few logs coming in now, so out scouting for trees to cut.
Normally 1/3 owner, 2/3 us.
In Oklahoma going rate for clearing cedar is from$75 to $100 per acre and the land owner pays.
We take the whole tree and grind.  Down trees are free, but take all.
There are quite a few good cedars in different patches that are not limby to the ground.
NRCS might help you find some of them.
If you are cutting the best and leaving the rest, it would be fair to pay the land owner something.

I'm not following you on how you're paying on the cedar scale , is that $.65 a board ft ? Then you added the $130 per ton
then the 1/3 - 2/3
Thanks

[nativewolf]

IF you bring the whole tree to him, he'll buy it by the ton.  If you bring logs cut to maximize yield he'll buy it by the bdft.  Either Or but not both.

[LeeB]

the one third/two thirds is for stumpage. If the load sells for $900 you get $600 and the land owner gets $300.

[LeeB]

Cedar scale.



 

[doc henderson]

Lee, does it estimate cedar board feet based on more loss from a typical ERC (lobulations).   ie is it less than normal true board feet?  I cannot read all the fine print.   

[stavebuyer]

The Eastern 2/3 Cedar rule favors small logs and as such is true to its name. It basically gives the board footage of log as what the resulting sqaure timber would be. No allowance made for kerf as often 4"-10" cedars were 4 slabs and a post. Most generous of all the scales up to about 16".

A 6" diameter post 8' long is expected to cut a 4"x4"x8' and rounds up the board footage in the log to 11 bd/ft.

[stavebuyer]

ERC is plentiful here and has established markets. $100 ton or $.65 board foot on the 2/3 Cedar scale are common numbers. When cut on shares the landowner is often 1/3. So $.20-$.25 bdft on the cedar scale or $30-$35 per ton would be typical stumpage rates here.

There is also a "veneer" export market for logs generally 10"+ and no ingrown bark. $1-$1.50 per foot.

I cut a world of it back in the late 80s and early 90s.

Easier ways to make living. Kind of like tobacco. You don't see the small timers anymore. Many who cut now are fully automated. Used to be 8' logs hand loaded in the bed of a 1/2 ton pickup truck. 8' pickups and people willing to do manual labor are both just a memory.


 

[Nebraska]

.65 was the last bid I researched out of Missouri  I tried to buy some at .80 bf but the logger wanted 2.00$ a bf. Last I knew they were still sitting at his yard.

[Skeans1]

Lee, does it estimate cedar board feet based on more loss from a typical ERC (lobulations).   ie is it less than normal true board feet?  I cannot read all the fine print.  

It looks like scribner scale.

[LeeB]

DocH, you'll have to direct that question to Cedarman. I got the scacle from him many years ago and never did quite figure it out fully although after looking at it last night I think I now understand it somewhat but not enough to try and explain it.

[moodnacreek]

So cedar scale is a square solid stick , no kerf taken out and no side boards added. You could almost scale by looking on the smaller logs.

[YellowHammer]

I was wondering the same thing, around here Doyle is king, except with cedar, everybody switches to Scribner.  

I'm struggling to get cedar logs, it's plentiful, but all the loggers have switched to selling tree length by the ton to a local cedar chip board company.  The loggers make more money in a day selling tree length down to 3 inches than selling the logs themselves.

Who would have thought cedar logs would be hard to get? 

[nativewolf]

I have heard glowing reports about the pricing from those mills, $150+ a ton for tree length I think.   For someone with a harvester it would be high cotton, probably do several trucks a day if the wood was there.  Like doing pulpwood but it pays 4x as much.  I think it bumped to $200 if the stems were all 8" small end?   Anyway, at those prices a logger could do well to stay in cedar indefinitely.  

[moodnacreek]

I was wondering the same thing, around here Doyle is king, except with cedar, everybody switches to Scribner.  

I'm struggling to get cedar logs, it's plentiful, but all the loggers have switched to selling tree length by the ton to a local cedar chip board company.  The loggers make more money in a day selling tree length down to 3 inches than selling the logs themselves.

Who would have thought cedar logs would be hard to get?

I thought you where all hard wood. A mill I know upstate [in cedar country] gets 24'+ tree length n.w.c. C.t.L. logs are going out of style now along with chainsaws. Do you get any Atlantic white down there? That can be some nice cedar.

[YellowHammer]

You are correct, this is hardwood country, but ERC grows everywhere, and it is the wood of choice for outdoor furniture.  Years ago, I could almost get it for free, it was just something that was easy to get and easy to sell.  Now that I have a market for it, I can't hardly get the logs anymore. Figures!

It's the only native cedar around.  There's a place in Nashville that sells Western cedar for near walnut prices, and I don't want to take that step.  The problem with ERC is that it's not a high value wood so I can't put a lot of effort or money into getting logs.  They are almost invasive and they just don't grow that big, and as soon as they do, they get chipped into plywood.

[Cedarman]

I talked to an exporter a few days ago and he said he needed wood for China.  I asked if the wood is being sent over there to be manufactured into product and sent back.  He said most was being sold to the Chinese people.  That is one huge market.
I see a lot fewer bird feeders and bird houses made of cedar then I did 15 years ago.
We made a small gable end for those.  We made 50,000 pieces per month.  Market died when the US company got bought out (Cedarworks) and the new company went to China for production.  That didn't work out well.  Destroyed a US company.  But it forced us to go from making a commodity to making custom sawn products and was the best thing that could have happened for us.  Internet made our day.

One logging company can cut, drag, delimb, load and deliver 20 tons of cedar every 2 hours when they are in a good stand.  Amazing.
Look at the amount of shavings being sold.  Retail price has about doubled in the last decade.

There is good potential to get into the cedar business in Ok.  No cedar mills.  No cedar loggers.
Millions of acres of cedar.  Not all has sawtimber of course.

[WDH]

Atlantic white cedar has gotten quite rare due to habitat conversion.  It only grows in the lower coastal plain in the wet flatwoods. 

[moodnacreek]

Atlantic white cedar has gotten quite rare due to habitat conversion.  It only grows in the lower coastal plain in the wet flatwoods.

Thanks for response.  I have been curious to it's range. The most I ever saw was on an island off N.C. I get about half a truck load a year from N.J. and there are a few places here in s.e. n.y. where it grows quite a ways from the ocean. They say it can be found as far north as N.H. It is amazing to me that an eastern cedar can grow so large.

[WDH]

This link shows the natural range. 

https://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=96