Hi Guys!
I just had a really bad experiance.
I called up my home insurance and asked them how much more a month to cover theft for my new sawmill(as a rider on home insurance). After no kidding, 2 months of calling them back and sending pictures. I finally heard back from them, and guess what? Not only did they not want to cover the sawmill but they cancelled our home insurance!!!! >:( I was furious. to add insult to injury the broker mentioned that now that I mentioned this no other insurance company will insure me with the exception of one! its twice the amount that were paying now and it doesn't cover theft or liability for the mill ???? :o WHAT?????? I have no idea what to do? Actualy I don't even know what I did wrong? :-[ Any help would be appreciated! :-\
Canadian Sawmill Insurance. I can't believe some of these Canadian insurance brokers. ::)
http://www.woodchuck.ca
Hope this helps.
I will try and contact them but my mill is simply for personal use! I don't know if they will have that coverage? Do you mind if I ask how much you pay for insurance annually? :-\
I don't have a sawmill. I just know about the program. Some insurance brokers aren't even informed about it's exhistance. ::)
However, my general liabiliy insurance was $1350, jumped $350 bucks. In 2003 - 2004 it went up $250 each year. These insurance outfits are working to put people out of business and milking the cow as long as everyone keeps paying. OH well, tax deductions. ::) :D
Monte, I had a similar experience when I bought my mill but didn't get canceled. Tried to find reasonable insurance for a couple of months and gave up. Took some steps to limit my exposure to theft, vandalism, fire, and liability. Couldn't do much about tornados. ;D
Look to your left and check out the insurance company listed there. They may be able to assist.
Mark
monte
Not sure, but sometimes insurance companies group things together and play the 'odds' based on past clients. Just possibly trying hard to get theft insurance rang some of their little 'bells' and maybe they thought you were up to something. I do know they look at 'risk' and don't know just how they decide. Sounds unfair, and hopefully you have an Insurance Commissioner who would listen to what happened, and would not be on the side of the Insurance Co. (which I see all too often happens).
Man I sure don't understand that. I called and had a rider within 2 days. I could cut all I wanted as long as it was for personal use no questions asked. Getting liability insurance is turning out to be a bit more tricky. They can give me a ball park figure on cost but as I try to actually get it I get more and more run around.
Now they want to know our show schedule, all safety documentation that Petersons sent, all safety rules for the company we are trying to form, bla, bla, bla.
It just seems funny to me to get a price but not be able to write a check.
best of luck
Tom
Hey, Monte.
We've got something special here in Canada that our American friends don't -- a nation-wide insurance plan specifically designed for portable sawmills. Check out the link that SwampDonkey gives above. Some of the features of the plan ..
- They will supply the insurance through your local insurance agent (sounds like you need a new one, though).
- Coverage includes liability, fire, theft, vandalism, etc., plus coverage if you get billed for starting a forest fire with it :D.
- If your mill is destroyed or damaged beyond repair and is less than 3 years old, you get fulll replacement coverage (up to the declared value). For example, I insured my mill for the amount it cost me, including taxes, plus a small allowance for inflation.
- The downside is, they only insure certain brands of sawmills. I don't know off hand which ones they will cover -- certainly the major brands like WoodMizer, Baker, etc.
As for cost, last year I paid $1125 Cdn for
- $2,000,000 liability.
- $50,000 fire fighting protection.
- loss/damage coverage on a $24,000 sawmill.
I don't know the whole cost breakdown, but the loss/damage portion of the premium $300. They weren't worried about whether or not I was a business. I got coverage under my own name just before I headed off to pick up the mill. When I got myself a business name, etc., they simply changed the name on the policy (at no charge).
Give them a call or e-mail. Then find yourself a good insurance agent ;D.
Do you suppose this had anything to do with the lawsuit WM lost over a little girl loosing her fingers in a mill? I don't rememeber where I read that online, but it was a large settlement, and I think WM was unfairly targeted...you know, deep pockets and lawyer involved. Seems like what I read went something like a grandfather was out sawing, grandmother was watching the 3 year old grandaughter, telephone rang, GM went to answer, 3 year old went to the mill, GP didn't see her and she got her hand or fingers caught in a feed sprocket. Don't know the accuracy of this, but do you suppose insurance companies are responding in their own way? I do not insure my mill, and I do not allow anyone near it when it is operating. Closest anyone comes is the out feed belt and that guy works for me anyway.
I just switched my home owners and my rental units to a farm policy along with my blueberry operation and my maple syrup business as well as my 3 vehicles. This all combined was less than $2000/yr and with seperate companies before I was almost $3000/yr. Coverages 1,000,000/2,000,000. Then they made the sawmill go under a seperate policy, fire, theft, liability, and even covered if I am sued because the lumber I cut was defective and someone got injured and sued me for cutting defective lumber,same limits as above and the cost was under $500/yr if my exposure was under $100,000 in receipts/yr, not sure what the next level is. This company is called Farm Family and has "an association with farm bureau. They are licensed in New York State, I do not know what other states. They are based in Glenmont, New York. Someone might want to check them out. When I got their price I joined Farm Bureau and they even had the paperwork to handle that end. I wrote the deposit check and was covered immediately. I was impressed to say the least. PM me if you want more info and I can give you specifics. I checked and they have a web site--- www.farmfamily.com , in the site they have a place that lists several states that they cover. Good luck. It appears our sponser (Insurance) only covers Mi and Wi. If they cover more the site does not show it. Farm family does not show they cover Mi, Wi, seem to cover most of northeast.
Insurance companies are shylocks.. ::)
Insurance brokers are worse. I got quotes on liability insurance and they were:
$1350
$900
$750
no response on one.
Same coverages, and I'll wager there were only a couple insurance companies they were dealing with.
I also have farm family, if you can get in do it.
Do they have a "Mountain Family"... ;D
I have had Farm Family Insurance on my auto for 24 years on my home and farm for almost as long. When I wanted to start a lawn mowing service this spring I checked into general liability $300,000. Farm Family wanted over $700 all up front. I checked with another guy I know and got a quote of about $400 paid quarterly. I think I am going to have him go through the rest of my policies.
Will
Looks like Florida isnt a covered state :(
Products are offered by Farm Family Casualty Insurance Company in Connecticut, Delaware, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, and West Virginia, and by United Farm Family Insurance Company in Maryland and Pennsylvania. Products are offered by Farm Family Life Insurance Company in Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and West Virginia.
GOI - check out Farm Bureau. Farm Family is one of their member companies; there are others in different states.
My Farm Bureau policy includes general liability for farm related work (including sawmilling).
Ian's Big Link is inside of here. Click this to reach it. (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:zYoDPRgei_cJ:commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju62444.000/hju62444_0.HTM+woodmizer+little+girl+lost+fingers&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=1)
the site was down but google and click cached takes you to the above
iain
I heard on the radio couple weeks ago that several major insurance companies were not writing any new policies in florida, louisiana and parts of texas. They were warning snowbirds to check for coverage before they bought any property in any of these states. Apperantly the god honest realty folks down there were forgetting to mention this little tidbit of info to purchasers.
It's not just a matter of not writing new policies. Insurance companies are canceling old accounts and moving out of the State.
My next door neighbor just got a letter from Nationwide saying that he has 30 days to find another insurance company for his Double Wide. He's been with this company for years and paid premiums religiously. You'd think that they would give more than a 30 day warning.
Here is the aggravating thing. The State requires that he carry insurance, nobody will write him a new policy but his existing insurance company is allowed to drop him even if he did nothing wrong. He is one of the policy holders who lives in the relatively unscathed part of the state that has been paying for the damage claims in the other parts of the State.
It looks to me like, if the State could require him to have insurance, the law would also require that the insurance company have a valid reason for dropping him. I'd have them in Jail if I were the insurance commissioner.
What happens to these poor souls? They end up on the street. His house mortgage is tied to his 50 acre farm. Without insurance, the mortgage company calls the note. Without funds to pay off the note, he is forclosed and ends up on the street. He can't refinance or get a second mortgage because there is no insurance to be had. That's a pretty sad state of affairs for someone who has been trying to pay off his farm since 1986, keep a job in a "downsizing" economy, find work in a society that is sending jobs off-shore, can be put on the street by his Government.
Tom, I hate to say it being the anti-litigious type, but it sounds like lawyer-up-time for your neighbor. Paid premiums all those years and prolly never made a claim. Sounds like it would be a nice class action suit where only the lawyers get paid.
How about a new jingle...Nationwide won't cover your doublewide.
Insurance companies here are cancelling policies on homes with not so well maintained flues and 10 + year old oil bareels. I know some that are 40 years old. In this case I'm with the insurance company. But, as far as Tom's neighbor is concerned I think buracracy is becoming very burdensome. Another example of insurance and government 'stupidy' is the case of a young mother not being able to afford high auto insurance to drive her car to work. The government agent said stay home and go on welfare. ::)
Thank you Tom
i'll save your advice and find some place to have a go at it
iain
Here is what i decided to do with this problem. Don't call around for "sawmill" insurance. Call around for liability for woodworking. Do you ask for tablesaw insurance? My "bandsaw" is one of many tools i use as a "woodworker" When i called around for "sawmill" insurance it was like asking for submarine insurance. Who woould want to handle that liability? Not me. But, if you are like me, you do many things with wood and have many tools. One of which is a portable bandsaw, made by woodmizer maybe. Insure it like you would all your other tools, tractors and equipment. When i used this route nobody turned me down, i said everything in a different way but didn't lie or cover up anything, so i should be covered. Just ask for basic liability insurance.
Guess a lot must depend on the agent as well as location. When I got my mill, called my homeowners agent to add fire, theft and vandalism to cover the mill. Was told if the mill wasn't removed from my property, my homeowners would be canceled. :o >:( My response to him was "cancel the Dang stuff. I'll get my homeowners coverage elsewhere." Never heard anymore from him until I got my renewal notice, however, he did not insure my mill. >:(
The insurance company is Farm Bureau, so as I said, it must depend on a lot on the agent and location, since some of you said you had them or a division of them. I have never heard of the Farm Family in this area!
An odd thing about this was that several years ago his brother was working with him and came by to do a review/update on my coverage so they could raise the premium. He looked at the old circle mill and run-down shed over it and ask if I would like to add coverage for it!!! :D
scsmith, gipper,
I have KY Farm Bureau for our farm, houses, vehicles and farm equipment. When I asked the local agent to add the sawmill to my policy, he almost had a cow. He thought I was wanting insurance for workman's comp, business liabilty, etc. He told me it would require special approval from State office to be allowed to consider it. Since I was only sawing for myself as a hobby, I explained I only needed the mill added as another piece of farm equipment which seemed to be acceptable. If I decide to get serious about this, it is obvious I'll need to take my time and look around outside of Farm Bureau.
Regarding the poor guy loosing his insurance, the unfortunate part is that most insurance policies are written to protect the insurance company as much, or more so than the policy holder. Regarding state insurance commissions, keep in mind they are made up primarily of former insurance agents and other people with very close ties to the insurance industry.
Warren
just my 2 cents but I would shop for specific sawmill ins so as not to get outed if I ahd a claim
Warren, thanks for the feedback. My agent told me that Farm Bureau did not want to insure "logging" operations, but a farm-based sawmill was ok.
My Farm Bureau knew my mill was a for profit venture and would not touch it. My daughter works for him, nothing in KY. :(
Quote from: jpgreen on June 11, 2006, 11:10:45 PM
Insurance companies are shylocks.. ::)
You are being too kind!! :) Far as I am concerned they are far worse than lawyers.
Those insurance companies can and will cancel your policy for no reason at all.
The Minnesota Attorney General, who is now running for Governor, just took on Blue Cross/ Blue Shield of MN because they have amassed over a billion dollar reserve and they are still raising rates. He also ripped the insurance regulators in the MN Dept of Commerce and said "they are supposed to be WATCH DOGS, not LAP DOGS!" :D
I thought I'd give an update on what we have experianced.
When I bought my first mill I called the agent and had a theft/fire policy that day.
When we decided to start milling for others and wanted liability our agent went out and found someone to do our rider. it took a bit of doing but it is a comercial policy for the LLC. Whe had to show our safety rules and the book that comes with the mill. Tell how we store the mill and how we take care of onlookers. Lots of questions but no hassles.
I wonder if it being an insurance policy on a LLC makes a differance?
Anyway we were able to secure 2,000,000 liabilityand theft/fire/...... for $900 a year.
Here is the funny part if we just had the liability it was $1200 a year or if it was just the theft/... it was $1600 but since we wanted both it was $900. GO figure.
Hmmmm....our homeowners covers fire, theft, wind damage of any building and contents on the property, up to and inclusive of a certain dollar amount. There are a few specified exclusions (like, airplanes). We have rather limited liability coverage on the property, but, I consider that my responsibility (so is the rest of it in reality, but sometimes insurance is 'forced').
One itsy bitsy little thing about insurance, though there is "coverage", there is no 'real time' guarantee of payment. Some states have passed legislation which mandates insurance payment to certain things and protections to policy holders in certain matters. This is why some companies have vacated certain areas.
One of the little 'catch-22s' insurance lobbies here created for themselves was in regard to vehicle coverage. Once they succeeded in making it a criminal offense to NOT have auto liability (lapdog politicians), then they brought legislative responsibility into that area (for whatever that may or may not be 'worth').
Now, there are several mandated guarantees regarding auto insurance responsibility. Of course, ultimately, companies just pass off the cost to the consumer.
Generally, I like court a lot better than insurance.
I like how they handle it in Cambodia.
THere is no insurance, and there are no scum sucking attorneys. You take care of your own.
My agent knew he was selling for a small commercial portable sawmill business, had to do a seperate policy. $2,000,000 liability coverage $420/yr and can do a ten pay plan (25% down, bal in 9 equal payments + paperwork charge[$4/pmt I think]) Thru Farm Family. I DO farm some but if you own a wood lot and manage it for any type of production (saw logs, maple syrup, firewood, whatever) you also farm it.
Quote from: scsmith42 on June 13, 2006, 11:11:54 AM
GOI - check out Farm Bureau. Farm Family is one of their member companies; there are others in different states.
My Farm Bureau policy includes general liability for farm related work (including sawmilling).
My farm bureau agent balked at my mill. He even came over and looked at it. He said when the time came to insure our new place, he'd have to check into the sawmill. He said they may want to exclude it. The way he acted about the mill was a little strange to me.
Hey Joelmar 10 where in central Ill. are you located? I am east of Streator .
Fisher, 15 mi NW of Champaign. Not too far. I've worked on machines in Streator on the day job.
Wow! A few days ago, I read about the homeowners policy being cancelled because of the new sawmill. Lo and behold, a sneaky insurance inspector made a visit with his camera to my cabin here in New Hampshire, where my sugarhouse is, and where I store my portable sawmill when not in use. Photos went to the home office and they cancelled the policy on the cabin because the inspector "observed the presence of an operational sugarhouse and a portable sawmill parked near by" and that was unacceptable. Cancelled. They didn't bother to inquire and find out that the sugaring operation and sawmill were fully insured with farm insurance. Guess they don't like people that make maple syrup and lumber. Farm Family gets all of it now.
Must have been Inspector Clouseau.
Hey!! I just picked up the new Pink Panther DVD, haven't viewed it yet though. ;D I've got the original Pink Panther DVD set also. :) 8)