Calculating Brick Pavers?

[kantuckid]

I'm trying to avoid drawing a scale drawing of the brick paver pattern I need to buy bricks for. The pattern I'll be using is called a 45 degree herringbone and websites tell me to allow 20% over to complete that pattern due to cutting waste. I can easily calculate the bricks using area of a 4x8 paver @ 32 SQ", which for my layout comes to 4.5 per sq' x 21 SQ' = 94.5 bricks. (It's less than 25 SQ' as I'm cutting off one corner of 4 SQ' of a 25' square area).
Web calculators also don't account for mortar joints which I'll be using underneath a wood stove for safety. 
Tightwad me doesn't want to buy many extras as these come from a private seller, not a store where I can return them. 

I tried changing sizes of web pics but never came out helpful. Is there an easy way-such as a paver template?

[doc henderson]

well they say not to cut corners, but if I understand your pattern, you will be cutting a lot of corners.  hey you are the one that chose the pattern ... or maybe it was Mrs. Kentuckid.  the only way to be a tight wad, is to draw it out and make the size overall so you can use the cutoff on the other side.  You may want an uncut square border so you do not see the innards of the cut edge of the brick.  any decorative pattern will tend to waste more.  do you have a concrete saw, as the whole outside edges will all be cut if I understand correctly.  the trick is to use a guide so the cuts line up and look good.  not sure you need a mortar joint as long as it is non combustible under the brick.  you can sand it in to lock it all together.

[doc henderson]

If you have a picture of a large pattern of witch you speak,  you can draw the outline to scale and count the bricks inside your line, and maybe help with a cut list to reduce waste.  will there be any secondary projects, you might want a few left over bricks for.  do not be dollar wise and penny foolish or how ever that saying goes.  :D :D :D  at Lowes those concrete brick are about two bucks a piece.  I have a pallet out in my yard if you are passing through.

[doc henderson]

this is a simple on but the pattern is at a 45° angel to the frame.  I assume you want to make it hard and have it go front to back and have a cut on every outside brick.

[doc henderson]

this one requires cutting.  if you are careful, and maybe do the center first then do a surround/frame, you should get the edges fill by cutting one brick at a 45.  if you put down a fire resistant board first, then you might get away with just tile and not have the 2.25 inch high trip hazard...  cause you are not getting any younger!   8)

[doc henderson]

do you have a board off the mill a full 2 x 4 inches that you can cut blocks out of in the shop and lay this thing out.  half scale.  if this is to please someone else, they can see it at small scale.  you can experiment with the pattern.  the one with the least waste is harder to see the complex pattern compared with the one with all the angled cuts.  

[SwampDonkey]

Here's a 2-2 herringbone, lighter shades are the cut bricks. Orientation of bricks indicated. This orientation is for same color brick, so that the brick orientation draws your eye to the pattern. If not the same color bricks, the bricks can be oriented the same, so then the cut off bricks are at different positions. But pattern also works if bricks are 90 to one another like in photo.

The cutoffs depend on how wide/long you make the 45 deg. twill lines between the reversal and the outer edge. You also might have several reversals. A lot less complicated cuts, just cut in two.

[doc henderson]

I like the way you use the graph paper or grid to make a pattern.  i would run the pattern through the whole piece but still not sure of the corners you are not doing that reduce the square footage.  

[kantuckid]

It's my choice of a pattern. I am well aware of the need to cut bricks for a 45 deg herringbone pattern! A 7" diamond blade is $12 on Amazon FWIW and in my cart.
My bricks will not be from retail, as I said they are private, old bricks, not concrete pavers. I have 7 left from having done the same thing long time ago under my old wood furnace in our basement where I built a pedestal for the stove on hard, antique bricks,. above a concrete basement floor. I used mortar there as there's no retainment edge, nor will there be one in my cabin floor, so still need mortar.

I will lay these on a purchased cement board base. The space is a true square with the front corner cut off.

I began yesterday to draw out a scale of a herringbone pattern on 1/4" sq graph paper after I failed to ever achieve a computer moniter zoom that matched the scale I needed. I got lazy and quit when "supper" was called, thus the post here.
I have drafting training back from mechanical old style work. Lazy is it huh.

There are templates on the web sold for such a purpose but I never found much otherwise except a calculator for the simple area math using a paver size.
Honestly, I'm now leaning toward a simpler pattern w/o the large number of brick corners to be cut off. Herringbone's got to be layed out precisely or it doesn't go down.

 A "twill" pattern like Doc's 4:37 post is MUCH!!! easier to lay and calculate then cut the front corner off as I plan.

In our home when I built a LR addition, I used large slate tiles inlaid in a corner stove area that extends to include the double French door entryway.
 I bordered the tile with a band of oak/walnut trim I custom made for decorative effect-green slate/green Jotul stove. This cabin is more basic and not an entryway either, no border other than the finish floor of solid wood that meets the bricks edge.   

[kantuckid]

this is a simple on but the pattern is at a 45° angel to the frame.  I assume you want to make it hard and have it go front to back and have a cut on every outside brick.

I looked at every possible brick pattern yesterday on puter. This one or another that's very similar are where I'm at now. Easy enough to cut bricks in half and I've done it before.

[Tom King]

Here's ours that I did in 1980.  Picture taken just now.   I used a 10" wet tile saw that also cut brick.

[SwampDonkey]

Herringbone makes a reversal as I've drawn earlier. All the other patterns shown are 2-2 straight twill designs. If 2 colors are used the pattern is more clear. These are common terms in the weaving world.





If it were woven on a loom, it would alternate colors when threaded on the loom and when tossing the shuttles. ;)

[Otis1]

Menards has landscaping paver design tools and calculators on their website for free. Not sure if that will work for you.

[kantuckid]

Here's ours that I did in 1980.  Picture taken just now.   I used a 10" wet tile saw that also cut brick.

Nice job! I'm sitting this cabin stove up in a corner with enough space that only the base matters, not the walls.
 I like the edge as shown above & done with soldiers to make the edge, not cut bricks. Thats similar to my homes basement wood furnace except it's a more basic pattern of weave with no cuts. I'm not under roof yet but planning for down time (like finding the brick which I think I've done) as I may be waiting for the help to raise the roof.
I checked out Menards which has some basics in their Garden section under projects header for doing patio pavers outdoors and a circular pattern.
This Fridays a rainout so I'll take the time and finish drawing up my pattern to scale- like I should have done beforehand. :D  The used bricks aren't that expensive but I don't want to have a bunch left over.
But I got some good ideas after all. 

[doc henderson]

so is the stove going in a corner and facing out at a 45° angle, and the front corner of the base with be cut off?

[kantuckid]

so is the stove going in a corner and facing out at a 45° angle, and the front corner of the base with be cut off?

Yep! It's going to be a 5' square with a 24" triangle cut away from the projecting edge- to keep the bricks away from the small cabin floor space area.
 
 Leg pain led me to get up very early today and I played on graph paper while drinking my coffee. I decided on a 90 deg Herringbone pattern with no soldier edge bricks. I drew it out to 1/4" graph paper scale and colored in the pattern for contrast and ease of brick counting. (It's similar to the weave I use with my hickory bark chair bottoms)
I need 98 whole 4x8 bricks and 12 half bricks. I have a couple of sources not far away. One I need to call now, in fact. 

[kantuckid]

Yesterday I got a return call from a guy tearing down a 1906 house in near downtown, Lexington, KY.  He has both paver bricks as I need and old soft bricks too. A few pavers are marked "Sphar". I looked it up and they were made in Maysville, KY from late 1800's to 1961 near town, on the banks of the Ohio River and shipped bricks to many states via rail and river. I think I'll include a few in my project.

[doc henderson]

pics if you get them.

[kantuckid]

Question??? : The only way I've ever cut bricks is with a chisel and scoring them. 
No pics cause I've not gone after any bricks... ;D
 
My question is how effective a 7" diamond blade is for hard paver bricks? I'll need to cut about 6 bricks into halves. What I read says a diamond blade on an angle grinder works good. Trying to decide which direction I'll choose. 

[SwampDonkey]

Tore down an old barn flu this spring, kept one dark red one for kicks. Built in 1954.

There's others over in the rock dump, but just wanted a memento.  Says Chipman, NB Canada along one edge. ;)

[doc henderson]

use of a chisel gives a rougher edge.  even a 7-inch blade in a skil saw works well.  I have cut a lot of concrete brick/pavers.  at least you have a nice smooth visible line even if you use a half inch score line then break the rest.  If you have several chop saws and one is older with all the new worn off, it works well also.  It is more stable than a handheld saw.  Remember to remove the dust bag.  do not ask me how I know, after cutting metal on one.  could drive around and find a brick job going on and see if they will divide them for you.  

[kantuckid]

I know a few brick layers around that I'll ask as I need so few and would never use the blade again. I have the chisel already. 

[SwampDonkey]

Even folks that sell stoves with brick liners they replace once in awhile have saws.

[kantuckid]

I replaced the firebricks in my Fisher woodshop stove and had a few of the bricks sawed at a tile store. Cost a couple of bucks but the store is a 3hr RT from me. 

BTW, it was one nasty job! I used an air chisel to get them out, layed in my back with head up inside the stove with a mask on, etc., etc.. They needed to be sawed as they fit tightly and in a certain pattern to be able to fit them.
I'll probably find someone to saw what few I need as I don't need a masonry blade otherwise and need less tools not more.