The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

[Magicman]

Thank you for that link Kent.  Sadly there are/were many "combat" veterans that never accepted Merchant Marines as Veterans.

[moodnacreek]

I once sawed big wedges for a launching of a new tender being built nearby for the navy. [Newburgh N.Y., steel style] The hull was all welded 2" plate. They told me they had done 3"!

[newoodguy78]

Wow can you imagine the welding rods that were consumed on that thickness plate. I know an older guy that was a career welder in the shipyards building and repairing, he was always mentioning "burning pallets of battleship rods" never asked how thick the material being used was.  Can only imagine they probably did bring rod to the job by the pallet. 

[barbender]

Ha! There's even a saying to go along with it. I wonder how large a battleship rod actually is?!

[Larry]

Since ships interest many on here I will give a little info on the USS O'Brien DD725 that I sailed to Vietnam on as a teenager.

Thank you for your service.

[moodnacreek]

Wow can you imagine the welding rods that were consumed on that thickness plate. I know an older guy that was a career welder in the shipyards building and repairing, he was always mentioning "burning pallets of battleship rods" never asked how thick the material being used was.  Can only imagine they probably did bring rod to the job by the pallet.

They area was paved with stub ends. The curved parts of the hull all a patchwork of small 2" thick 'blocks', a crazy amount of stick welding. I think they called the welders 6 packs. During the wars men of certain ages worked in this Hudson river ship yard area. 3 generations in my case. The older ones used to talk about throwing hot rivets [??].

[Resonator]

The older ones used to talk about throwing hot rivets [??].

The iron workers would have a portable forge set up heating the rivets until the were soft. They then would grab them with long tongs, and throw them to where the the steel was being joined. Another worker would catch them in a funnel like basket, and put them into the drilled holes. A good rivet joint was not just held by the head of the rivet and the peened over end, but also by the hot steel expanding in the hole and locking the joint together.

[moodnacreek]

The older ones used to talk about throwing hot rivets [??].

The iron workers would have a portable forge set up heating the rivets until the were soft. They then would grab them with long tongs, and throw them to where the the steel was being joined. Another worker would catch them in a funnel like basket, and put them into the drilled holes. A good rivet joint was not just held by the head of the rivet and the peened over end, but also by the hot steel expanding in the hole and locking the joint together.

And you are only 47. I didn't expect an answer here about throwing hot rivets but someone always knows somewhere. Thankyou for the clarification , Doug

[newoodguy78]

I saw an old  video one time of a crew riveting a bridge together. The crew was tossing them around like Resonator was saying. It was really impressive how easy and effortless they made such hard work look. The crew worked like a well oiled machine, no wasted movements just flawless efficiency. 

[Resonator]

Yeah, I've watched a lot of old documentary films on pretty much anything heavy industry. Also was friends with the older generation growing up, and listened to their stories. One of the teachers back in high school was an iron worker in the past, said he "rode the hook" many times. That being he stepped into the hook of a crane, and hung on to the cable while he was lifted many stories up.

[beenthere]

Metal Joint By Hot Riveting - YouTube

[Grandpa]

Years ago I saw a video of someone welding a ships hull. If my memory is right the rod was 3/4" and looked to be about 4 feet long. The stinger was on wheels.

[Don P]

Boys were often employed on the bucking side of hot rivet work on double hulled ships, they fit in the gap. Miserable work to begin with and there are stories.

[DbltreeBelgians]

Also it has a horseshoe shaped bow instead of a sharp point.

I've often wondered why this is. Does it have to do with draft? Just seems like a V shaped bow would cut through the water more efficiently. Can anyone elaborate more on this. Has my curiosity up.
Brent

[rusticretreater]

A sharp bow is necessary for high speed maneuvering and cutting through waves.  The large ore ships move slower and are near the water line fully loaded and are pushed around by tug boats. A sharp bow would not help much. Capacity in the hold would be reduced as well.   Tankers and freighters more often push the water out of the way.

[Ron Scott]

Also because of the size of the 1000 footers, they need large bow thrusters in the bow to assist them in turning which makes for the large, rounded bow design.

The merchant mariners were a brave bunch of sailors, especially when sailing unarmed through the submarine infested waters of WWII. I believe that they now have Veteran status.

Ships are also scrapped by their shipping companies when their profits start to drop, and they have too many ships in their fleet.

[Ron Scott]

I was the first diver down on the Cedarville at 6:00 am the morning after her sinking on May 7, 1965. It was a very foggy morning when she was in a collision with the Norwegian freighter, M.V. Topdalsfjord southeast of the Mackinaw Bridge in the Straits of Mackinaw.

I was marking timber at the time on the St. Ignace Ranger District of the Hiawatha National Forest when I got a radio call that the US. Coast Guard wanted me. I remember the extreme fog and the many sirens going off but had no idea of what was happening. 

 
Air bubbles are still rising from the Cedarville as she settles to the bottom just inside the shipping lane marked by the buoy. An orange barrel had floated to the surface from the ship as well as other debris. 13 crew members were reported missing.

[barbender]

Gosh Ron, that must've been a haunting scene🙁

[Old Greenhorn]

I'm not a diver, but I've worked with a few dive teams either on the medical side or as support crew. I've also lost one very close friend who was working on a dive to identify and recover any remains from a lost WW2 downed plane 4 years ago. Knowing the divers I do and some of what they go through, they only thing I can imagine worse than a recovery dive is a recovery dive under the ice.
 Ron, that's mighty tough duty.

[Resonator]

Also because of the size of the 1000 footers, they need large bow thrusters in the bow to assist them in turning which makes for the large, rounded bow design.

Agreed. Been many years, but I knew a teacher who had worker ore boats in the summer months. I remember him saying how important the bow thrusters were on a ship that big, and the horseshoe shaped bow made a smaller wave cutting through the water. I know he always called them "boats", never "ships". He said ore boats were designed for the great lakes, not ocean waters. If a ocean vessel came into the great lakes it was called a "salty", or as one guy from the UP referred to them, "saltines". ;D
Side note before they had conveyor belt - self unloaders, there was a giant mechanized machine with multiple clamshell buckets that would reach down through the hatches to get the ore, called a "Hulett" unloader. As they were scooping the cargo out, a wheel loader was lowered down in to scrape it together. Then men with shovels would clean up the rest.

[Ron Scott]

I used to be one of the few divers in the Lake States back in the late 1950's early 60's after I got out of the Service where I got my training.

The USFS allowed me to dive upon being called by any other Agency in need. I had a special public service appropriation for that need. I provided the help to the State Police, Coast Guard, Sheriff Departments, etc. Now all the Agencies have their own trained dive teams.

All recovery dives are a sad story of their own with some unique experiences.

[customsawyer]

I tip my hat to you Mr. Ron. You've done your area one heck of a service. Most of it done without the gear we have now days, which makes it even more impressive.

[Ron Scott]

A loose life ring marks the stern of the sunken Cedarville at 35 feet when we arrived at the scene of the sinking that early morning of May 8, 1965. The pilot house is at 120 feet and the ship is upside down resting on the "A frame" of its self-loader. There is a very large hole in its starboard side at the collision area. 13 seamen are unaccounted for, a first mate and most of the engine room crew.


 

[barbender]

Wow.🙁

[Ron Scott]

The ship's name plate above the pilot house identifies it as the 
"CEDARVILLE".