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Gun safe specification input

Started by samandothers, November 11, 2022, 10:53:19 AM

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samandothers

Looking for a gun safe.  WOW, bunch of info and models to digest. 

Where my questions are now is fire protection, and there seems to be a fairly wide range.  Location is rural and response time will be slower than suburbia.  I was considering 75 or 90 minute safe.  Thoughts?

I was looking at temp ratings and those seem to be across the board.  A question for you fire fighters or others in the know about fire temperatures, what temp rating should be considered?  It will be in a frame home of Hardie board?  Location will be in a basement that has concrete walls but is walled with 2x4's and location near or under stairs.  Temp settings vary, been looking at 1400 to 1600.

Thanks

PoginyHill

Fire retardant material in a safe is drywall board (gypsum). The more layers of drywall in the safe walls, the better the protection. If you are putting a safe inside a cabinet or a wall, if you surround it with more drywall, you'll gain some additional fire protection rather inexpensively. Any important papers you can put a small document safe inside the gun safe to keep documents. Electronic stuff (e.g. hard drives, memory sticks) are more sensitive to heat, so additional protection for them is required beyond a typical gun safe.
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Gary_C

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Walnut Beast

Liberty safes and Fort Knox are good ones 

Tom King

We have the old, big safe that came out of my Grandfather's store.  My tractor bucket can lift 2,500 pounds, and it was all it wanted to do to move it.  

I used to think they had really thick metal accounting for most of the weight, but after opening the back of the door to oil up the locking mechanism, it's mostly fire clay that's about 8" thick.  The metal is not over a half inch thick anywhere that I could see.

Corley5

Don't put a safe in a basement.  House burns and everything hot falls into the hole.  Fire protection ratings are useless if the safe is there.
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Chuck White

When I got my gun safe, I put it in an "add-on" room of the house, and I put it there for a very good reason, there is no cellar under it.

If the house burned, and the safe fell through the floor it would land on the ground and most likely tip over, but there shouldn't be much damage to things inside!
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Larry

I have six cases of bottled water stacked on top of my safe.  I've never tested my idea so not sure how it will work. :D
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Ed

Nobody has mentioned it, I will. Capacity.....its a joke. Tag will say "12 gun capacity", yup they're right, if you have 12 Red Rider BB guns.
Start to fill it with a varmint rifle or 2, add a couple scoped hunting rifles and the new safe gets small really quick.

Ed

kantuckid

One of the better ones I've ever seen was my KS cousins son, a pro shotgunner & hunter who was building a 2-story home, with full basement. He poured a basement corner as a walk-in gun safe and bought a commercial safe door. IMO, any other, free-standing choice is less secure than a fixed space done well.  
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GRANITEstateMP

Ed brought up a good point on capacity and gun safes.  They are kinda like garages and shops, you need to at least 25% bigger than you think you'll need!

As to fire rating, add some extra drywall around it to beef it up, and as others said put important docs in a safe inside the safe.

My other requirement when I bought mine was it needed to be made ANYWHERE BUT CHINA. I was on a budget, but was able to stay within it, got one made in Mexico...
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Chuck White

I have found that gun safe capacity is half of what's listed!

A 24-gun safe will hold 24 guns, but how many do you have to remove before you can get to the one you want to get!

The 24-gun safe will comfortably hold 12 guns, usually.
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With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

samandothers

I appreciate all the replies.  It would not be difficult to add some sheet rock around the area it would be in.  It will set in the basement as there is really nowhere for it on the main floor.  The other alternative would be garage which is not conditioned and just seems too handy for someone to make a withdrawal.  

I could add sheet rock around the area it will be in.  I read house fires can reach a temperature of 1500 F usually near ceilings, seems something in a temperature rating near that would be a better choice. @firefighter ontheside  Many seem to have a 1200 F rating.  Have looked at Champion and Superior brands with ratings of 1500 and 1650.

I appreciate the input folks, it has been helpful.


Crossroads

Capacity is an interesting topic. My first safe was rated for xx and I was able to double that creatively(barrel up, barrel down, this one fits next to that one...)but as mentioned above, it isn't convenient digging for the one you want. Then getting them back in is another thing. A few years ago I picked up another safe and I don't think I've ever been able to fill it to it's rated capacity. 
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firefighter ontheside

I'm no expert on gun safes.  I do not have one.  If I have a fire my guns are toast, but I don't really have anything that is collector or high dollar.  So much with fire ratings is about time and temperature.  Things will be protected from a certain temp for so many hours.  The mass of the safe takes a long time to heat up and transfer to the contents inside, but once its in there its in there.  The extreme temps seen in house fires are usually measured at ceilings since heat rises that's where it becomes hottest.  Also though, high temps are going to be seen by anything that has direct flame impingement, so trying to cut down on fuel around the safe would help to mitigate that danger.  There are so many variables in a house fire, such as where the fire started.  When a fire starts on upper floors and or the roof we usually don't see a lot of fire in the basement, but what we do see is a basement full of water.  Perhaps if you put it in the basement, put it up on a platform of some sort.  If you have a walkout basement, which you likely do if you can get a heavy safe down there, then the water won't get too deep as it can run out the door.

In the end I think just get something that has a good rating, do your best to put it in a good place and then hope you don't have a fire.  When someone's house has burned down it is a terrible occurrence and you are hopefully just happy that no one was hurt.  I can't remember someone being distraught about their guns being ruined.
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Walnut Beast

Quote from: samandothers on November 12, 2022, 07:59:18 AM
I appreciate all the replies.  It would not be difficult to add some sheet rock around the area it would be in.  It will set in the basement as there is really nowhere for it on the main floor.  The other alternative would be garage which is not conditioned and just seems too handy for someone to make a withdrawal.  

I could add sheet rock around the area it will be in.  I read house fires can reach a temperature of 1500 F usually near ceilings, seems something in a temperature rating near that would be a better choice. @firefighter ontheside  Many seem to have a 1200 F rating.  Have looked at Champion and Superior brands with ratings of 1500 and 1650.

I appreciate the input folks, it has been helpful.
Most good safes have pre drilled holes for mounting to a floor or base. A good looking safe is a nice show piece for in a house also


Walnut Beast

I've got a Liberty safe. If your buying a safe some of the most important things are what does it weigh equal steel thickness ,  door locking mechanism with number of bolts and the quality of the lock group 

scsmith42

 

 



 

On June 25, 2008 my former woodshop / garage burned down.  My Canon gun safe was in the left rear corner as you're looking at the pics.  You'll note that in the first pic the firefighters were keeping that corner hosed down (at my request).

As others have said, fire protection basically consists of layers of sheetrock inside the safe.  More is better.

The Canon safe protected the firearms that were stored inside it, and I can highly recommend the brand.  Made here in the USA (California back then).  The locking mechanism jammed on it due to the fire, and I can personally attest that they armor plate that they use inside the safe to protect the mechanism is first rate.

Here is one of the firearms that survived the fire that day.



 

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Walnut Beast

Sure sorry about that fire!! That's a good safe I forgot about! It pays to have good safe!

customsawyer

Scott, how did you get in the safe? ;D
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scsmith42

Quote from: customsawyer on November 13, 2022, 06:29:28 AM
Scott, how did you get in the safe? ;D
I used an excavator to clean up the remaining mess where the safe was still bolted to the slab. 
When I took the wall down by the safe, I struck it pretty hard with the side if the excavator bucket. Sitting in the cab I got to wondering if the shock from the hit might have freed up the stuck latch.
Sure enough, it did.
If it hadn't, my next option was to cut it open with a plasma torch. I hesitated to do so because I did not want to risk damaging the contents.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Claybraker

I have a Graffunder. Sorta pricey. Weight is a good specification to compare similar safes. Mechanical combination locks vs those electronical things. American Security makes some good product also.  Capacity, twice what you think you need. Somebody washed the outside of my safe with the wrong detergent and it shrank.

samandothers

Safes like insurance you buy hoping to never need them and hoping they work when you do.  It appears yours worked Scott!  Sorry you had to test that out.  Thanks for the information.

Great input folks. 

To date I have been looking primarily at Champion, Superior and American Security.  I have also looked at others and no decisions made.

Texas Ranger

The biggest and best safe you can handle; I had little space so bought a small one, guns and valuable with other guns scattered around the house, this is more for theft than fire.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

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