Torn between two samills....................

[Burlkraft]

Hi All,
This is my first post, so let me start out by saying that you all seem to be very helpful and friendly and I do believe that I have come to the right place. I have been building furniture for about 20 years now....some pieces better than others, but all in all I love doing it. I was raised on a farm and have just recently bought a piece of Wisconsin land that I hope to build my final resting place on. I have several customers at my business that are tree guys and for quite some time I have had access to some beautiful logs. I have been hauling logs all over to mills and when I found a guy that I really liked he now does very little sawing because of parkinsons disease. It's time for me to get my own mill and start sawing my own logs. I have been putting money away for an HD40, but a friend of mine was telling me about swing blades. I checked out the Lucas on Bailey's site and I am really impressed. The thought of milling them where they fall appeals to me. I also see they offer a slabbing attachment. I make a lot of slab tables for customers, mainly out of maple, cherry and redwood (I have a friend in Eurica, CA.) So now I'm torn......bandsaw or swing blade????? What would you guys do??? I'm looking for honest input and sound advise. From what I've seen here this forum is full of that....and more!!!!

Thanks,

Steve

[Ron Wenrich]

Welcome to the board.

Most anyone will tell you that it depends on what you want to saw.  How large of logs will you normally be sawing?  Is quartersawn lumber of great interest?  Are wide boards of interest?

From what I've seen, swing mills can give you easier access to quartersawn lumber.  They also handle reallly bid logs really well.  But, there is a lot of grunt work involved.

The bandmills will give some extra lumber due to the thinner kerf.  But, large logs are harder to load.  You can slab logs, but not as wide as the slabber unit on a swinger.  I think 24" is the widest cut.  You can also turn your logs on a bandmill. There is more hydraulics, which helps lessen the grunt work. 

I'm sure DanG will be along about anytime, and fill you in on the Mobile Dimension mills.  They are a 3 saw mill that produces lumber in one pass.

And there will be a lot of other guys that will offer pros and cons on both mills.  I happen to be a circle man, but just wanted to welcome you on board.

[Timburr]

Yes, you have come to the right place.   Welcome aboard.

Research the sponser's mills on the left. They are all good mills.

There's no-one who can say 'get this sawmill', 'get that mill', the choice is yours to find the one that fits your circumstances.
Ask yourself what you expect of the mill and find one that fills that criteria.

It took us a year, before we finally decided on a swingmill.


Tim

[Frank_Pender]

I agree with Tim's statement of research and what fits your needs best.  I spent three years researching.  I purchased my mills based on what my main goals and objectives were at the time and still are.

I have also gone and purchase a 4th mill to bandsaw special sizes of burl and such.

[Captain]

Some would say one of each.

Some would say it depends on the value of your final product VS the amount of sawdust made

Some would say it depends on your budget, your state of health, your support equipment, your spouse's patience level....

Lots of opinions, but form your own as you read and absorb all of the knowledge of this terrific place; the best place on the internet for questions such as yours.

Good luck;

Captain

(swingers rule  )

[Ianab]

Hi Steve amd welcome to the forum.

My biased opinion is - get a swingblade  :D

But seriously both type of mills achieve the same thing in the end. Which is best depends on log type, portability needed, what support equipment you have etc.

Big logs it's the swingblade hands down, small logs a bandmill is arguable better. The swingblade will saw up small logs OK, it's just doesn't have the clear advantage over the bandmill.

The swingblades are very portable - there are some pics floating around on the forum and the Peterson site of mills being hauled by donkeys, quadbikes (ok that was me) etc. This could be usefull if you need to get to big tree service logs in peoples yards.

Support equipment (tractor or loader etc) makes life easier whatever type of mill you have, but the swingers let you break down big logs where they fall. Sure you can set up and saw quicker if you have heavy machinery to load the mill, but you dont HAVE to move the logs.

If you want to cut table slabs you can allways make 1 slab from each log by sawing 2/3 of the log then rolling it over and cutting from the other side. Of course the chainsaw slabber lets you do the whole log.

If you can arrange to see one in action at a show or with a local sawyer then thats probably the best thing. Remember the swingblades are generally manual mills so you need to be resonably fit, they aren't HARD work to operate and you dont have to move the log while sawing, but you do get a good workout 

Cheers

Ian

[Kirk_Allen]

As a LT40 owner I would have to say, cant answer your question. ;D

I love my bandmill 80% of the time.  That other 20% for me is a killer.  Its those monsters that keep ending up in my log yard that are more work than they are worth on a band mill. 

I like my band mill for fast and easy set up, mobility and quality performance and great production.

If I were to buy a Swing Blade I would more than likely go with the 10" Peterson, which I have opertated and investigated as I too, would like to have the best of both worlds. 

I need my bandmill and I need a swinger.  One day I will have both!

Soon I will be able to speak to the advantages of a circle mill as I now own one of those too 8) 8)  Just dont have it set up yet ;D

[Part_Timer]

Burlkraft

Welcome to the forum.  There have been a lot of recent conversations on the subject you are talking about.  

I only have one piece of advice.  Go and run what ever it is you are looking at.  Run as many types and as many manufactures as you possibly can.  Get as much HP as you can afford.

I have both.  Each one has it's advantages.  Both of mine are manuals.  Peterson 8" ATS and a LT15.  

My preferance is the swinger but it fits my cutting best.  I cut lots of qsawn.  Lots easier when all manual.   I also just can't seem to turn away large logs

Be careful though while sawing is addictive swinging is just down right contageous.  ;D ;D ;D

[Larry]

Welcome Burlkraft...pull up a log and gather round...think you will enjoy this place.  Interesting screen name...got any pictures of your work?

I make a lot of slab tables for customers, mainly out of maple, cherry and redwood

The choice for me would be clear...slabber.

Most standard bandmills have a throat opening in the range of 28 to 30".

And learn to use "search" as it is your friend.

[Ga_Boy]

Burlkarft,

Welcome to the forum.

Like the other have said do your own research then buy what fits your needs/requirements.

For me it was a swinger, but I chose the nich of large logs to produce thick QS from the large timber that no other mill in my area wants to handle.




Mark

[inveresk]

I still haven't sourced the mill I need nor seen them in operation (soon to be remedied) but one of the factors that has me leaning towards a swingmill is the sharpening time on the blades. As I understand it, at the end of a day's milling on a bandsaw, sharpening blades could take an hour or more whereas with the swing mill I'm advised this can be achieved in ten minutes or so. An extra hour per day over a year when aggregated out to working time is around 250 hours. Spending the equivalent time of 6 1/2weeks per year sharpening blades isn't exactly my idea of a good time.

[brdmkr]

First welcome.  I have only sawn MAYBE 600 bdft on my swingblade, a Lucas 618, so I don't have much experience.  I like it, I'm glad I bought it, it serves my needs, BUT it does not take long to see that both band mills and swing blades have a place.  I drool when I see big logs, and frown when I see small stuff.  I'd love to have a band mill for smaller logs, and I've never even run a band mill.  I've only seen one in action, and I can just tell that the band mill would be far easier with smaller logs.  I bought my mill because

1) I lacked support equipment and the swing blade can be taken to the log.
2) The price was right.
3) It seems to me that the circle blade saws allow you concentrate on the cut rather than log handling.
4) It seems that the swingblade allows you a little greater versatility in terms of cut (flat vs. qt)

You will get lots of advice here.  One thing is sure, milling is adictive!

[Part_Timer]

Brdmkr

I cut a 9 1/2" x 33" log on the Peterson tonight with the microkerf blade.  The log was wanlut and I got 6 1x5x33 and 1  1x6x33 out of it cutting out the sap wood.  The log never moved on the bunks.  I do not have log dogs of any kind.  Just blocks with square notches. Weather permitting I'm going to cut nome 7" cherry logs 5' long tomorrow.

With the microkerf small logs do not seem to be near as much of a problem.  I've cut up a few small scrap logs just to see how much they move and got the same results.  I cut the log tonight and then skimmed the bottom and right side down to 3/4" each just to see if I could and it worked

[brdmkr]

I have been working on some bunks this week that I think will help with the small logs.  It is not the log raising device Dan spoke of, but it is does have a simple dogging system.  I hope to finish it tomorrow evening, but it will be at least a week before I can test them out.  Maybe I can get some pics loaded before then. 

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Welcome Steve,

As you see, you have received the usual excellent advice from the best on-line Forum there is!
Modest, ain't we?  :D   :D

I have a 10" Peterson WPF now, after ruminating and cogitating for years on the decision.
My dream is to have a dedicated slabber on one end and the swinger on the other end.
Cutting down the top third of the big logs to get to the next to heart and heart slabs
is the job of the swinger - either flat sawn or quarter sawn.  Next take three slabs.
Last finish up the log in boards as you like 'em.   
Yep, thass ma dreem!    8)

For now, I plan to set up my two Stihl 090 engines on a home made slabber to run on the
Peterson tracks.

Here were my deciding criteria:
1.  Did not want huge amount of support equipment.
2.  Did want to work with mainly large logs.
3.  Did want to stick to salvaged or other free logs. (Metal for sure.)
4.  Did want to slab at times (already had Alaskan and Stihl 090, etc.)
5.  Did want to maximize stable lumber/ grade lumber by quarter sawing.
6.  Did want capacity to cut large beams and cants (such as can be done by Peterson).

There you have it:    :P   ;)
Combination of slabbing and swinging with Peterson Winch Production Frame!

Phil L.

[Max sawdust]

Steve,
I am torn too.   :-\
I am in northern Wisconsin, and have been hiring a real good sawyer with a fully hydraulic WM band mill so far. I am addicted to saw dust now.  So I have been researching mills trying to see what fits my budget and business plan.   If I were going to saw full time I guess I would consider a fully hydraulic WM band mill. Knowing how much log turning is involved with sawing for grade or quarter sawing I can not imagine a manual "starter" bandmill if I the mill is to be used for anything more than hobby or personal use.  The swingers intrigues me because you can saw three faces of the log without moving it, and that no one that I am aware of in my area has a swinger, so it would differentiate my services.

So far I looked into the Lucas, Brand X and Peterson. (I recommend getting the video's from each company.) I am not looking at slabbing, but getting reasonably wide boards/timbers is important to me.  So that has me leaning towards the Peterson or Brand X.  The Peterson seems more portable than the Brand x, and the Winch Production frame looks like I can set up near a pile of logs and saw in one spot for the day.  So far the Peterson 8" WPF is my dream mill.  For me I need to cost justify this yet and then will need to see one in action on small hardwood logs before I would buy though.

I hope this helps.

Max
What to split a mill?

[Burlkraft]

Wow,
Thanks for all the GREAT info. I guess I will have to sit down and make a list of my needs and figure out what to do. I checked the Bailey's site and there is a mill not too far from me, I'm going to call the guy today and see if I can get a demo. Maybe even hands on. I have helped cut most of my logs on a bandmill so I pretty much know what's going on there.

Thanks again for your help. I love reading all the posts here. I'm sure I will be back often.

Steve

[bull]

How much are you planning to saw...   the lt40 is alot of money and mill if you plan to only cut a few thousand feet a year....  an LT 15 may suit you just fine and for alot less green. can't give an opinion on a swinger.
a friend of mine is a full time cabinet maker and produces all his cabinet wood on an lt 15.... around 5000 bfd per year... I started w/ an lt 15  20-30 thousand bfd per year no problem. I know have an lt 40 50-75 thousand bfd per year all the bells and whistles help. But operation costs and repairs are higher. good luck

[Ernie]

Just to complicate matters ;D ;D ;D

No one has mentioned a twin saw, We've had ours for 6 months now and love it.  Just set it up over the log and mill, particularly good for Q'sawn stuff and big logs.

[lawyer_sawyer]

I am exactly where you are with leanings now toward a Peterson Swing Mill 10" WPF.  There is a bunch of great information on this site but don't forget to get the product specific information from the actual manufacturers.  I have gotten info on several saws and it is always a big help.  Not to mention that Kerris and Rex at Peterson have helped me through a lot of questions.  Unless there is a huge amount of pressure take your time and good luck with the choice. 

Also if some piece of information confuses you on a particular brand there is likely to be an answer here.  This site is awesome.

Welcome to the forum

[Arthur]

Swingers and Bandsaws arnt the only mills available.

Dont forget the quatersaws from manufacturers like D&L Doublecut.  They compete with bandsaws on the smaller logs for output and can handle large logs if you have the support equipment.

[FeltzE]

Burl,

The best way to quantify the right sawmill is to answer several questions on what your going to do first...

How much lumber are you going to saw?
  This has a direct effect on what kind of handling equipment you will need for lumber, slab, logs, dust, mill hydraulics, manual or power drive. Many mills boast a high production rate, if I were to go back and shop for a new mill I would look for an owner of several different types of sawmills and spend a day operating each one of them. You may find that a "man powered drive" is just fine for a couple hrs a day on a low end band mill or one of the swing mills but it dosn't allow for other work to be done while the saw head is in the log it's hands on ... all the time.

What is the size and quality of logs to saw?
   Primary saw logs of under 36 inches of clean grade logs will saw well on a band mill or circle mill, where as logs over 36 inches will need a swing blade, or multi blade mill like mobile dimension, mightymight, or double cut designed for the bigger stock. Logs recovered from resigential areas have a higher volume of tramp metal so blades should be considered either insert point circle blades or inexpensive 1 1/4 band blades.

Is it really necessary to move the saw to the logs?
    If not check the sawmill exchange or NC Ag Review or other listings for used circle mills, Even EBAY has them, I just sold a mill for $1,100 with 125 hp electric drive, and a hyd log turner. (52 inch circle mill) Keep your ear to the rail and you may find one of the older frick mills, or mellott mills which will run for another 100 yrs and can cut 10,000 board feet a day (with the right handling equipment) for less than a new low end mill.

Ohh so much more to say... not enough time... screen through old posts here on FF and you will find this discussion reiterated over several message threads over the past cpl yrs.

Good Luck


Eric

[Burlkraft]

Thanks guys,

I now have a lot more to think about!! I am in no hurry either, except I need to find a new guy to saw for me for now.

Hey Max Sawdust..........There are a few miles between us, I am from Northen Southen Wisconsin (DElls Area) but if you want to split a mill, we can keep it at my house!! Ha Ha Ha

I have been trying to load some pictures of some projects that I have done, but have had little success. I guess I have spent too much time making sawdust and not enough time honing my computer skills. We didn't even have electric typewriters when I was in school.

Steve

[Max sawdust]

Burlkraft,
Just wasn't sure where northern southern wisconsin was. :   Are you sure the dells are not in southern northern wisconsin.  Ya know portage claims that they are "up north" on a sign in town ;)

Good luck with your research, if you go to see one of the Lucas demo's in wisconsin let us know about the experience.

I might buy a good used starter mill like the WM LT15.  I figure I can upgrade when I need to.  Sure do like those swing mills though!
Max

[beenthere]

There is a "Forestry Field Day" tomorrow and Sat. just south of Sauk City at the BlackHawk Wildlife area, and demonstrations are to include cable winching, horse logging, ATV 4 wheeler forestry, portable sawmills, tree pullers and shears, nut planter, saw sharpening and manitenance and 'cut-to-length' harvester.   Look in the 'calendar' (above for the button) and the brochure can be found by clicking on the item. 
  I'll be there tomorrow morning and have my FF hat on.

[Burlkraft]

Hey Beenthere,
I'll also be there....I'll be lookin' for ya.
Steve

[beenthere]

Great. My college roommate always said "You're not short, they just built the side-walks too close to your rear end", and referred to me as "short and squatty, all b___ and no body" ;D ;D  See if that fits.

[Frickman]

Welcome aboard Burlkraft! You've come to the right place to talk sawmills. I run a big old, rip snorting circle mill myself, but think about getting a portable band mill to run also. Anyway, be sure to enjoy yourself here and ask lots of questions.