v-groove blade Is anyone running one on a lucas mill?

[burlbark]

 Hello to all... I am in Northern California, USA and have a lucas 10EFI.

I have heard a couple of people mention the v-groove blade and that it operates cooler with less engine load and faster blade speeds.

We mostly cut redwood and cypress which are both fairly soft woods, but anything that can ease wear and tear is good on me and the saw.

Is anyone here running it?

Could you tell me the positive and negative aspects of it when compared to the stock standard grind?

[burlbark]

 I just got a response from Lucas and it appears that the blades are in pre-production still? Lucas owners will be notified when they are available. I will need to debark all my logs if I go this route, the redwood bark and dirt from skidding would create havoc on the v-groove. I hope this info helps someone else out, I will have to consider these blades.

Below is part of a PDF that was sent to me.




Compared to standard tip blades V-Groove tips offer many advantages - 0.5mm
thinner kerf, smoother finish, up to 30% faster and up to 50% easier to pull
through deep cuts. The Lucas patented grinding system means consistent
sharpening as the grinder mounts direct to the blade and gets consistent
reference from a hole in the blade. The system features a diamond plate wheel
with a 140 degree included angle on the grinding edge. The grinding wheel spins
on the same axis as the saw blade (refer fig.61) and grinds a V-Groove in the face
of the tungsten tips. Instead of being square (90 degrees), the side edges of the
teeth have a more aggressive 70 degree angle which can actually cut. This
means tooth radial taper can be reduced from 3.5 degrees to 1.5 degrees. This in
conjunction with the "sharper" tip sides gives a much smoother, less furry finish
particularly over pine knots.
The position of the grinding wheel in relation to the tungsten tip and the curved
shape of the V-Groove mean that the hook angle right at the cutting edge is
increased from 36º to 41º which also makes for faster easier cutting. The top
angle (refer fig.60) is reduced from 10 degrees to 5 degrees to ensure there is no
loss of included angle (strength) in the tungsten tip.
The only downside to V-Groove tips - this is why we don't offer V-Groove
technology as standard - is that if two or more teeth are damaged (chipped) on
the same side then the blade will wander and pull off in the opposite direction,
unlike a blade with standard tips which could cope with similar damage and still
continue to cut straight but at a slower rate.

In sound clean logs free of metal and grit V-groove tipped blades will outperform
standard tips by a considerable margin for speed, recovery, finish and ease of
operation.
Blades
Since January 2008 all standard blades have been supplied with V-Groove
grinder mount holes so all that is required to convert to V-Groove is the grinder &
tips. Model 8 & 9 blades supplied pre 2008 can be converted by drilling the
12mm grinder mount hole next to the gullet (refer page 54 - fig.62). Model 6
blades pre 2008 cannot be converted as the gullet is too small to fit the grinding
wheel. Factory supplied V-Groove blades are a different shape (except model 10)
to "standard" Lucas blades. They are round with round gullets and in testing cut 3
to 5% faster than standard blades with the same V-Groove tips.

[thecfarm]

burlbark,welcome to the forum. Been sawing long? What's all the redwood and cypress being used for?

[dgdrls]

Welcome Burlbark.

As a rookie  Lucas sawyer this is of great interest.
Is Lucas posting this information on its website?
I haven't been to it in a while.

Best
DGD

[JohnM]

Welcome to the FF, Burlbark.  Thanks for posting this, I hadn't heard anything about these blades.  They sound great although the thought of debarking does not. :(

[Magicman]

Hello    burlbark, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Tell us about some of your sawing and woodworking interest.   

[burlbark]

Hi Guys.... I have worked in the logging industry since 95. My grandfather was a cabinet maker and slabbed walnut. My Dad was a lumber mill worker and I ended up working at the sawmill also, Georgia Pacific. At one time they employed nearly the whole town of 4000 people. After the mill closed I worked for the logging industry and became a diesel mechanic and worked my way up to head mechanic for 2 different companies. That just didnt do it for me, I couldnt handle all the diesel and chemicals. Around 97 I started using an Alaskan mill and cutting cants out in the state forest, 12"x12" of old growth Redwood. By 2003 I was an off bearer for a local Lucas mill owner and operating a independently owned Clark Rubber tire Grapple Skidder.

I am currently on 160 acres of land removing the dead, dying or diseased and using the Skidder and the 10EFI that has 16 hours on it. It has been an absolutely awesome mill. We have cut nearly 7000 feet in the last 9 hours, the mill had 7 hours on it when bought from Baileys (demo unit). Our first sale was a third of the mill cost. Enough about me now...How about the v-groove blade?

The blades are 6-12 months out still. But this doesnt make any sense as they have been in pre production for years now. The message from Lucas stated that they are waiting on moulds? Here it is.

Gday Jeremy,

Although it is in the final stages of development, we are waiting on the moulds and manufacture of the tips – I estimate at least 6 to 12 months before it will be fully online

[sigidi]

Welcome to the forum burlbark!!! seems this question is familiar to me  ;D  ;)

Other than what I mentioned already on the Lucas site forum, that info brings up some stuff I didn't think about - having the issue one has with losing a corner or two on the blade means a big pain in the neck for me. I don't harvest my own logs and do a lot of suburban mobile work so like Forest Gump - I never know what I'm gonna get.

I was under the impression these blades where already in production ??? Was that info from Lucas HQ down under, or from Baileys over there?

[Lucas_Mill_Pty_Ltd]

Gday All,

The V-Groove tips that we have been trialling have all been hand made and ground while mounted to the blade which is not only time consuming but expensive.

For production quantities, its faster and cheaper to have moulds created and tips to come pre shaped ready to silver solder to the blade. Because we don't have any real control over this process,  its very hard to estimate when they will be available.

If you would like a copy of the V-Groove information that was provided to burlbark, please email be at support@lucasmill.com.au and I would be happy to forward a copy.

Best Regards
Matthew de Jager
Lucas Mill Pty Ltd

[burlbark]

Gday All,

The V-Groove tips that we have been trialling have all been hand made and ground while mounted to the blade which is not only time consuming but expensive.

For production quantities, its faster and cheaper to have moulds created and tips to come pre shaped ready to silver solder to the blade. Because we don't have any real control over this process,  its very hard to estimate when they will be available.

If you would like a copy of the V-Groove information that was provided to burlbark, please email be at support@lucasmill.com.au and I would be happy to forward a copy.

Best Regards
Matthew de Jager
Lucas Mill Pty Ltd

Thank you for the info.... It sounds like for your average consumer this blade would not be wise to send out with the mill. I am sure the Lucas hotline would be ringing all day long. But for those of us that know how to trouble shoot and have experience milling it could up our production quite a bit. I hope this shows Lucas that there is a demand for the different profile.

Maybe a caution sticker should be mounted on the blade referring back to the pdf if the cut starts to wander and the importance of keeping the edges sharp. :P

[beenthere]

is not only time consuming but expensive.

burlbark
I think this is what is holding up the blade, they plain don't have the blades yet (as I read the memo). ;)

[burlbark]

is not only time consuming but expensive.

burlbark
I think this is what is holding up the blade, they plain don't have the blades yet (as I read the memo). ;)

They have the blades they just dont have the pre-sharpened carbide. Consumer demand most often bumps up production time.... ;D

[Lucas_Mill_Pty_Ltd]

Gday Guys,

The blades body itself is the same between the standard blade and a V Groove blade. Blades manufactured after 2008 will have the hole for the V-Groove grinder to mount, the same hole is used for our latest re-tipping jigs.

The pre-shapped tips however are the hold up.

Best Regards

Matthew

[burlbark]

 Has there been any progress on the availability of these new blades?

[sigidi]

All good things come to those who wait...

[Nomad]

     They sound intriguing, but I personally wouldn't want them.  I don't think I've ever finished a job without at least a little chip off the corner of one or two teeth.  Not a big deal with the square teeth, but a real problem with the v configuration.
     Of course my Lucas logs are always oversize logs and usually from urban settings.  I always hit some kind of metal.  Forest grown trees shouldn't give the same problems.

[sigidi]

For my 2 cents worth, I don't see the use for them either - in my normal mill logs... if things changed Yeah I'd be inclined to look at them, but it also means a whole different set of gear with regard to re-tipping for the saw doctor.

Like nomad, I tend to get a bit of trash too much to do the switch, but like I said ifI had nice clean forest logs, lifted instead of skidded, then I may be inclined to give them a run  ;)

:new_year: