Adding A Loading Arm Question!

hilltop · August 09, 2003, 10:40:41 PM

have a LT40 Hydrolics woodmizer 89 model that did not have a loading arm when i got it
, it has three controls stop-turner, clamp, and toe board, I called woodmizer they said i could use the toe board crontrol for the loading arm so i got the loading arm, now i find that it will not work with the toe board control there is no fluid return on this control like on the clamp and stop-turner , anyone have any suggestions on how to make this work without buying another control like the clamp has????

solidwoods · August 10, 2003, 05:43:01 AM

You got me, I would'nt want to loose the toeboard. I would just buy another hyd control and add it.
JIM

Bibbyman · August 10, 2003, 06:00:52 AM

Most hydraulic valve assemblies are made up in sections like slices in a loaf of bread. I'd suspect your's is made like that too. You should be able to get another section and unbolt your assembly and re-assemble with set this section set in.

Check your Wood-Mizer manual and see if it has the manufacture's part number in the description. You can probably find it on the valve body itself. Then check with your local hydraulic supply place for a valve.

You'll also need longer bolts and a bunch more hose to run to the cylinders. Wood-Mizer also puts flow control valves in the lines so if a hose breaks and you suddenly loose all pressure, the loading arms don't just fall like a ton of bricks.

A few years back, Wood-Mizer had an ad in their Wood-Mizer News or Tech Talk offering some surplus valve assemblies at a lower price. Maybe they still have a few.

Another way to do it would be to put a splitter valve in the clamp or turner line. The valve could be manual or operate on by a solenoid – thus, you turn the valve one way and your turner valve works the turner, turn it the other way and the turner valve works the loader.

Fla._Deadheader · August 10, 2003, 07:23:20 AM

The way Bibbyman just described splitting the lines, is how we added onto our hydraulic system. We used ball valves and turn them one way for the loader and the other way for the main hyd. bank.
Be sure you have an open center system, that is, when not using any valves, the fluid is passing through the valve bank. Otherwise, ya got no fluid to work with.

hilltop · August 10, 2003, 08:44:52 AM

Have already added the splitter valve to the toe board lines and found out it will not work, the toe board still works fine when in that position but when in loader position it pressureizes the system with no place for the return fluid to go, this is where it needs to be because the toe boards are not in use very much, woodmizer told me it would work on toe board control! is it possidle to modify the toe board control to accept this feature?

Bibbyman · August 10, 2003, 09:34:12 AM

You'd have to replace the toe board valve with a two-way valve and run another line. Then you're old-style toe board cylinder probably wouldn't work with the two-way valve.

Looks like you've got everything you need - you just need to tap into the clamp line or the turner line. I'd think the turner line would work better.

I'll have to look - I bet the new style roller toe boards have two-way cylinders and valves and thus would work. Maybe that's why WM said it would work.

The one-way valve should still work but you'd have to have the hose connected to the right end of the cylinders to push up and depend on the weight of the arms to pull them down. I don't think you'd want that because if you were lifting a log and decided to let it back down, it would fall like it does when you release the pressure on your toe board valve - K-BOOM! It comes down - as I remember.

hilltop · August 10, 2003, 09:55:23 AM

Bibbyman your right about the B-Boom the toe board do release manualy, will just have to tap in on the turner or clamp, Thanks for your help.

D._Frederick · August 10, 2003, 10:10:07 AM

Ball valves can be used to direct the hydaulics flow, it will take 4 valves to add another cylinder. The problem is most ball valves are only rated for 500psi. Prince makes a "two position selector valve" that has one lever to control flow to two double acting cylinders. The cost of this and the hoses cost as much as getting another section for the stack valve system. If you can get a section for your stack valve would be the best way to go. I agree with Bibby that you should have a flow control valve in the return line for you lift cylinders to reduce the chance of a log free falling.

Bibbyman · August 10, 2003, 10:47:30 AM

Update - The newer mills with the roller toe boards do have two-way cylinders. Probably accounts for the confusion at WM.

It would be worth looking to see if you don't already have the valve but no handle. I'd think it'd be easier for WM to put the same valve assembly on every mill than to make one up without one valve.

hilltop · August 10, 2003, 10:47:56 AM

The selector valve is what i have and i have the flow control valve in the bottom of the loading cylinders they are called fuses, gotta go to see if i have enough of the right fittings to change to one of the other control valve.

hilltop · August 10, 2003, 11:08:35 AM

Bibbyman , WM told me the on that model mill i have would have the lines and the fourth valve would already be there that all i would have to hook it up, i took their word and experince for truth and didn't look for myself and ordered arm, then started to hook up to find out their was on lines on extra valve, called them back they told me to hook to the toe board valve that it would work so i ran lines ,got selector valve, hooked up to fond out it dont work form toe board valve i have the old style, and there are only 3 places for valves on hydrolic tank.

Bibbyman · August 10, 2003, 02:34:03 PM

I've found the support guys real helpful and know far more about my mill that I do. But things do happen. It would sound reasonable that you mill would have been built with all the valves even if the loading arms were deleted. I doubt if they inventoried an assembly with one less valve or would take the time to remove one.

I worked with a guy that was an industrial engineer down at the St. Louis Corvette factory. As I have an interest in Corvettes, I always welcomed conversations about how they were built. He told me all kinds of stories about what happened at the assembly line. If a car called for a power antenna and they were out, they would substitute a standard antenna and send it on out – expecting the dealer to fix it when it arrived. Sometimes a customer got a free upgrade to a bigger engine if they were out of the one they ordered.

He told that the executives could take a Corvette home with them and drive it. A son of one of one of the executives wrecked one while he had it out. Returned to the factory, they were going to move it back to the repair shop with a big forklift. The fork crushed a gas line and caught the car on fire. They got it put out but they just picked the whole car up and dumped it in the scrap bin and built another. Years later it was very confusing when two Corvettes showed up with the same VIN number. Someone had salvaged it from the dump and rebuilt it.

He said sometime in the mid-60's they built a batch of Corvettes all stripped down and set up for road rally racing. Even though they were not close to being street legal, they drove them off the assembly line and out route 66 to somewhere on the west coast to where they were raced. I'd like to have seen the Highway Patrolman's eyes when that bunch of cars came past!

Anyway, I digress. Good luck with your loading arms. Maybe the next time I see one of the ol'time Wood-Mizer support guys, I quiz him on the topic.

BBTom · August 11, 2003, 06:32:28 AM

Would it be possible to just use the one side of the two way cylinder? I have done it before by putting an air filter( steel wool or such) in the top cylinder fitting and just using pressure on the bottom fitting. Weight should be enough to push the fluid back to the tank when valve is released.

Or you could plumb an air tank into the top fittings and presurize it some.. the air pressure would push the cylinder down and fluid back to the tank. They use that setup on some of the new firewood processors to speed up the return stroke on the splitter cylinder. Hydraulic pressure is probably close to 2000 psi. 100 psi of air pressure wouldn't slow it down much at all.

Just a thought!!!!! :-/

Fla._Deadheader · August 11, 2003, 08:09:01 AM

Slick trick, BBTom. I hafta remember that one !!! Thanks

hilltop · August 11, 2003, 08:37:09 AM

Never thaught of that one it would work but you would have to have some air pressure because with the safety fuses in the bottom it is just too slow with only its own weight, i have hooked in on the back-stop turner control i just dont have enough of the right fittings till i go to the store, i will try it that way to see if it will work ok maybe leave it there if not to much headache. thanks for all your help everyone, will let you know how it works when i get the fittings.

hilltop · August 12, 2003, 07:53:14 PM

update- got everything all plumed in on the turner valve and finaly it works great! with the selector valve in down position the stops and turner works normal,pull up on the selector valve and the loader works normal, going to be great to have a loader arm, loading big logs with a dozer is a little scarey there is always that chance of someting breaking if i ever figure out how to post pictures i will show you how i load with a dozer, Thanks everyone for your help.