Thoughts on track loaders

Birchwood Logging · December 27, 2013, 01:57:17 PM

A few months ago the motor went down in my cat skid loader broke the oil pump shaft but I have been renting a 262 skid loader from cat for $ 2800 a month that rental is eating up all my profit. I have a good friend of mine that is a mill owner he has a John deere 450c track loader with a winch that he used when he logged and don't use it any more he put new tracks rebuilt the final drives and transmission just before he quit using it was taken good care of. Any ways he told me to take it and use it pay him a load of pine logs a week for it until I get him payed off $8000. I will be using it to load logs with do they do a pretty good job loading logs? Dose this sound like a fair deal. Each load of load of logs is worth about $500 for 2000 feet but he's the only mill around that will even buy pine i can get it for next to nothing most land owners will give it to me

bigred1951 · December 27, 2013, 01:59:14 PM

sounds like a heck of a deal to me

Kemper · December 27, 2013, 03:30:13 PM

Yes it sounds like he is going out of his way to help you out.

Bert · December 27, 2013, 03:54:58 PM

When I first started out I had a 350B (still have it actually). WE used it around the mill as that was all we had back then. it worked ok but was painfully slow and tore up the ground badly. You also had to clean the tracks out everyday in the winter or the next morning you were not moving with the frozen mud. Its pretty much just used to level some topsoil around the house anymore.

It sounds like a good deal, but for my $8000 I'd get something else. If all I had to do was put up some pine logs that were useless to me anyhow I might think about it differently though.

scsmith42 · December 27, 2013, 04:40:43 PM

Quote from: Bert on December 27, 2013, 03:54:58 PM
When I first started out I had a 350B (still have it actually). WE used it around the mill as that was all we had back then. it worked ok but was painfully slow and tore up the ground badly. You also had to clean the tracks out everyday in the winter or the next morning you were not moving with the frozen mud. Its pretty much just used to level some topsoil around the house anymore.

It sounds like a good deal, but for my $8000 I'd get something else. If all I had to do was put up some pine logs that were useless to me anyhow I might think about it differently though.

I'm inclined to agree with Bert. I spent a few years operating a 450B track loader, and it would not be high only list of priorities. The lift height isn't that great, components are expensive, it does not have much reach, and it tears up the ground. An older backhoe may make a better alternative.

shinnlinger · December 27, 2013, 05:23:58 PM

The price is ok if it has a new bottom but if it has been sitting it might have other issues but the financing sounds reasonable enough. It also seems that after you have run a few loads you could return if with a few bucks if it isn't working out and still have saved on the rental. I agree a backhoe with forks might treat you better for similar $.

barbender · December 27, 2013, 05:47:59 PM

My Grandad used to have a 450 track loader, it had a backhoe attachment on it. I hated that thing, if I had to use that to make a living I'd find something else to do >:( If it would have had a six way dozer blade on it it would have been worth something, but a front end loader magnifies every fault those things have. You couldn't give me one. Why don't you fix your skid loader or buy a different one if you're paying that much in rent? You have that nice 700 dozer why have things bottled up with a dinosaur like one of those 450's?

barbender · December 27, 2013, 05:51:41 PM

I'd rather have a farm tractor with a loader on it rather than one of those things, that's how worthless they are. Perhaps they have 2 saving graces though- they can lift a lot and they can work in extremely muddy conditions.

snowstorm · December 27, 2013, 05:57:51 PM

a c is far better than a b wet steering clutchs in the c . a few things to look for. the side frames break where they bolt to the final drive. usually can be welded. there were 2 styles of front cross beam. the later was bigger and didnt have as much trouble. if its the thinner one with the bushings i have a fix that works. with age the rear one will wear and wear the hole in the track frame

Bandmill Bandit · December 27, 2013, 06:00:15 PM

The only thing I ever found that series of loaders to be really good at was pushing silage up into the pit while maintaining a good even slope for the packing tractor. Much else was just too much stress on about every part of the machine. But you could sure push silage with the 450s.

mills · December 27, 2013, 07:11:46 PM

https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif Well, you asked! It doesn't sound like anyone is holding back on with their opinions.

Dad used an old 350 to load logs for several years, but he wasn't cutting full time either. Like barbender was saying, it will pick up a big load for it's size, but it was slow. When I bought my first wheel loader, I could load two loads to his one, and didn't get wore out doing it.

I think you said before that you work a lot of steep ground. The low center of gravity of these loaders may be what you need. But, its what ever you decide. I've read enough of your post to know you can make about anything work. Good luck.

Birchwood Logging · December 27, 2013, 08:15:46 PM

Thanks for the input guys it would be rather slow and tear the ground up pretty bad never thought about that if I can get through the winter with it I'm gonna get a knuckle boom this spring I do have the option to bring it back to him any time if its not worth while to use. I plan on fixing my skid loader but 7k for a new motor Is a little more than I can afford right now during the winter months. The only advantage I see to the track loader is it has a winch and I can use it to skid with or set out for the 700 when not loading but sounds like I will be spending a lot more time loading

KyLogger · December 27, 2013, 09:51:39 PM

I used a 450 Case track loader to load with last winter while helping a buddy out on his job. I am a Deere man, but a track loader is a track loader (I will give case the fact that they have a way better HLR setup than JD). A track loader is slow (but that is relative), they will pick up ANYTHING!, the load height ain't great if it has a bucket, dig a hole to load in. You do have to dig out tracks in winter if it gets really cold at night. They will tear up the ground, but no worse than a rubber tire machine when it's wet. They are versatile, especially with a bucket and a winch!
That being said, I do not run one. The best move I made was going from loading with a FWA farm tractor (much worse than a track loader) to a knuckleboom. Got it cheap. Mounted on the back of a C70 with a 3208 Cat. Not a self loader just a truck mount.

Birchwood Logging · December 27, 2013, 10:09:28 PM

Would you load one log at a time or would you pick up multiple logs to load

treeslayer2003 · December 27, 2013, 10:23:07 PM

cmon guys, it is far better than a tractor or backhoe. it is made to load not pull a plow, and he loading small six wheelers so lift height ain't a big deal. it won't pull like a dozer less it has grausers, loaders sometimes have smooth tracks. park it on pine tops so it don't freeze to the ground. just MO but I rather do that than pay 2800 for rent. all comes down to do you trust the seller.

Birchwood Logging · December 27, 2013, 10:35:58 PM

It has grauser tracks on it like the dozer tracks. I use a loading hole already makes it easer to see your logs position. I trust the guy he is very honest and keeps all his equipment in great shape he takes good care of his stuff

KyLogger · December 27, 2013, 10:42:44 PM

Loading multiple logs was no problem as long as you could get them positioned right. If the guy is a good dude than I would not hesitate. Just my $.02

Tom

redprospector · December 28, 2013, 12:44:45 AM

Is the winch the John Deere PTO drive winch, and does it work?
If the answer to those two questions is yes, the "old man" is giving you a really good deal (Have you priced one of those winches by itself lately?).
I've got a 6 way blade on my 450B, but it didn't have the skidding winch. Yep, there's probably better machines out there, but what's it going to cost you. I'm sure there's better machines out there than just about all of my stuff, but it's in good shape and I can move everything but my HydroAx on a gooseneck trailer. No trucking's got to be worth something.

mad murdock · December 28, 2013, 02:54:35 AM

Is ther an arch on the winch? Tracked skidders are slow, excepting a cat 527 with a swing grapple.

Firewoodjoe · December 28, 2013, 06:29:27 AM

Do it. 2800 a month is getting u nothing at the end except a job. Run the track loader for 6 months sell it for 6000 and your rental just went from 16,800 (skid steer rental) for six months to 2,000 loss on the track loader. Or whatever your willing to sell it for. Or money saving from no down time if your 700 breaks. Dad had a shear on a deer track loader. Wasn't the best but made money!

Birchwood Logging · December 28, 2013, 07:47:17 AM

I believe I will go pick it up today and give it a try and see how it dose I will try and post a pic of it later

Birchwood Logging · December 28, 2013, 02:26:47 PM

Here is a pic

Kemper · December 28, 2013, 03:22:55 PM

Good for you.

barbender · December 28, 2013, 04:21:33 PM

I am giving my opinion on how the 450 worked for me, my uses are different than birchwoods. It may work great for his conditions and where he finds himself financially right now.

KyLogger · December 28, 2013, 09:29:11 PM

Good looking tractor! At a helluva deal! I can pretty much tell you anything you need to know about the winch, brake/ clutch assemblies and final drive.......don't ask me how I know ;) I am just now getting my final drives put back together. Seems the previous owner didn't check the gear oil often enough and it took out the half shaft bearings and seal and was filling the finals up with hyd oil outta the brake/clutch housing and everytime I checked it it was good........or not! Just got done rebuilding all of it. Not a bad job really.....

Good luck with the new loader! Let us know how it goes.

Tom