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Hello... I'm new. This is my introductory thread.

Started by DANSBIRD, March 06, 2018, 04:35:07 PM

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Carson-saws

Welcome!  Enjoy your time learning.  You will get many of your questions answered on here. Have fun.
Let the Forest be salvation long before it needs to be

Magicman

I'll keep you in mind but for now, my sawing schedule is tight with nothing in your direction.  As I said earlier, I talked my way out of the Ovett job.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

TKehl

Those are some nice trees and would make nice logs.  

If you don't want lumber, I bet you would have little trouble selling the logs (lumber or stave) and just work up the tops for firewood.  Might even be veneer in there.  
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Jeff

Certainly no veneer. Epicormic shoots are visible in the photos.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ljohnsaw

Jeff, please educate me - not that I will be doing much with it :D

Epicormic shoots - are you talking about the "suckers" growing at the base or did you see something further up the tree?  How does that knock them out of being veneer quality?

My understanding of veneer quality would be very straight grained and near-perfect round, pith centered logs.  Is that correct? IDK
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Jeff

You need to add and free of defect. Not at the base, on the stem. There is a definition in the Forestry Forum dictionary under extras.

It's the danger to value you run when you open a stand up to to much light.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

DANSBIRD

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 13, 2018, 10:42:59 AM
Jeff, please educate me - not that I will be doing much with it :D

Epicormic shoots - are you talking about the "suckers" growing at the base or did you see something further up the tree?  How does that knock them out of being veneer quality?

My understanding of veneer quality would be very straight grained and near-perfect round, pith centered logs.  Is that correct? IDK
I was wondering the same.
Thanks Jeff for those extra nuggets of info. :cool: 

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

DANSBIRD

 I was told the white oaks can become old and just die. I found that odd considering we have red oaks at my parents' house that are much bigger and presumably much older and look as healthy as ever. 

Jeff

Actually, that is true for all trees. They all have a typical life span. Just like people some live longer than others. There are a few species that are about the same as people. Aspen or jackpine here in Michigan for examples.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Magicman

Much depends upon whether the root system is in good soil that it is adapted to and also whether the top feeder roots have been damaged/ disturbed.  That area appears to have been cleared which most likely caused root damage.  I am seeing exposed roots at the tree's base.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

starmac

Soil condition probably does come into play at times. I know nearly all of our birch around here starts rotting in the middle before it gets big enough to saw, but sometimes a logger will get into an area that it gets big with no rot. When they do all the birch in that area will generally be rot free.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Jeff on March 13, 2018, 10:08:46 AM
Certainly no veneer. Epicormic shoots are visible in the photos.
Jeff, if you look closer at the photo(s), I think what you may be seeing is background tree crowns there, whose trunks are hidden by the foreground trees.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 13, 2018, 12:10:32 PM
I was told the white oaks can become old and just die. I found that odd considering we have red oaks at my parents' house that are much bigger and presumably much older and look as healthy as ever.
Looks to be a landscaped lot that forest grown trees were established on. Dozing around and burying or damaging feeder roots can effect crown health. Not to mention any co-dominant trees, or especially suppressed ones, may have sun scald from opening up the canopy. They are not used to full sun and a little tender both in 1) leaf morphology they underwent when growing and developing in more shade; and 2) in their stem tissues. The smaller crown may not transpire enough nor the stem able to move enough water (both directions) to keep from burning up. Even worst with damaged roots.

Depending on tree species, many hardwoods species do not epicormic branch or even stump sucker when they are mature and are the dominant height with a big crown in the canopy. Sugar maple or yellow birch don't tend to. But younger trees of these species do, for sure. See it quite often.

Up north here, in balsam fir mixed with white birch, we see sun scald happen in nature. Often a stand will lose most of the fir from insects or old age. White birch lives longer and it is left scattered and open when the fir dies off. It to can die off within 3 years of balsam fir collapsing from the stand. Most always the stands are even aged, and fir can crash quick (die off). The really opens up the canopy. Bad news for white birch. The big old white birch survive better in a hardwood cover type, longer lived trees as their neighbors. But they need more space. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

DANSBIRD

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 13, 2018, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 13, 2018, 12:10:32 PM
I was told the white oaks can become old and just die. I found that odd considering we have red oaks at my parents' house that are much bigger and presumably much older and look as healthy as ever.
Looks to be a landscaped lot that forest grown trees were established on. Dozing around and burying or damaging feeder roots can effect crown health. Not to mention any co-dominant trees, or especially suppressed ones, may have sun scald from opening up the canopy. They are not used to full sun and a little tender both in 1) leaf morphology they underwent when growing and developing in more shade; and 2) in their stem tissues. The smaller crown may not transpire enough nor the stem able to move enough water (both directions) to keep from burning up. Even worst with damaged roots.

Depending on tree species, many hardwoods species do not epicormic branch or even stump sucker when they are mature and are the dominant height with a big crown in the canopy. Sugar maple or yellow birch don't tend to. But younger trees of these species do, for sure. See it quite often.

Up north here, in balsam fir mixed with white birch, we see sun scald happen in nature. Often a stand will lose most of the fir from insects or old age. White birch lives longer and it is left scattered and open when the fir dies off. It to can die off within 3 years of balsam fir collapsing from the stand. Most always the stands are even aged, and fir can crash quick (die off). The really opens up the canopy. Bad news for white birch. The big old white birch survive better in a hardwood cover type, longer lived trees as their neighbors. But they need more space. :)
Well that makes a lot of sense. I didn't ever consider that the trees on the lot were getting too much sun.
I also know the dirt they're on is bad. Around here, we have what's called 'Yazoo Clay" and our lot is loaded with it. When we get ready to build, it's going to cost a small fortune in dirt work alone simply to take out the bad and bring in some good dirt. 
I've been told the clay is great for pines b/c they have a long taproot, but not so good for oaks. Either way, it is what it is... I would like to find some other trees to start planting on there before too long. Simply for when the big white oaks come down, some other trees can eventually start filling in the gaps. 

SwampDonkey

Well, sunlight drives the whole system. It also effects tree development and the morphology that parts of the tree undergo to adapt to light conditions. One of them is leaf shape, size, epidermal layer and stomata of the leaves, for instance. Check with your local forest extension or USDA folks on the trees. If white oak were well established there, then the soil type can't be too bad for them. You made a disturbance, they are responding. Oak have deep roots, pine generally don't go real deep like oak. But, I am not an expert on SYP. Our white oak up here are on our wetter soils actually around Grand Lake in the low lands. Our wild pines are on the more sandy soils. Our wild stands of red pine are on soil with lots of stones with red clay or sandy soil with red clay bottom. If they aren't then I suspect tree plantation pine up this way. Different pine and different ecology than your pine.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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