well leaving in morning to go look at another skidder, been looking for a while and 1 just came up so we will see . About 6 hour drive so by midnight or so we will know if I had a weak moment and spent more money ;D
What kind of machine are you looking for?
well I pasted on both, first went to see a 240B jack, in pictures it looked real nice but good picture taking ;D,not so nice in person, next was a 380B with clark winch , everything worked but she has had a lot of hours on her
my skidder works fine but Im going to put some cash back into her, going to have center section in frame line bored and put everything new back in , its got play in it now and I hate anything I feel is wrong . My clutch is feeling like its getting weak so time to put a new clutch in, I have had this machine 9 years now and have spent very little money of her , so when I pull motor to put new clutch in I'm sure cause I know me a new crate motor will be going back in
what do I want in a skidder, well that's a loaded question. I do not want huge cause by-law would send it out of the bush. I sure would like heat and a/c , that sure would be nice . I have never been around something like a TJ 360 , sure jd540/548 in green is nice but that price their asking for them is CRAZY in my mind . I liked the clark 666 with 5.9 cummins . they were a very good dependable machine . Im thinking there has to be skidders coming up for sale in the USA with the log market not so good but to find a good skidder that the owner took care of seems harder to find than I thought
the 240B I looked at yesterday the next guy paid $2,000 more than asking price . I walked around that machine for about a hour checking it over and at low end I felt I would spend $20,000 to get it up to woods ready for me so $20,000 plus asking price put machine way to high for a machine that had way to many unknown things about it for me
Is there an online rulebook anywhere where the skidder size/ weight rules have been written?
I would wonder if a situation might develop where you can find newer ag tractors (with a better power to weight ratio, better fuel economy, etc) or tracked machines that can be converted to a forestry spec than continue with a 30 year or more old skidder?
Your example with the old skidder for sale above, purchasers paying above the asking price for a 'dwindling? supply of 'good' condition used skidders? Look for alternatives like a tracked industrial machine, lower ground pressure than a skidder? (put a hydraulic winch, a crane and mini clam bunk set up etc) modern heated cab.
Prinoth Panther T8 Skidder low ground pressure - YouTube (https://youtu.be/pkmPCZTcM6s)
Every time I think about buying a newer skidder I think about initial cost, operating cost, and repair cost. Newer equipment has much more expensive parts and it could be a lemon. I know my machine and know where to buy parts. That being said I to will buy a newer machine someday but keep my old one u till I can learn and rely on the new one. Good luck. And I would t say log markets are bad. Oak is down but white wood led seem to be holding on. Every mill needs more.
Know what you mean. My old 518 is still pulling wood,but is getting worn out. I finally made the move last week and bought a 525B CAT. Little rougher shape than I wanted, but the money was right. Been looking for two years, but really got serious this spring. Thing is forestry equipment is not moving. I'm still seeing the same skidders for sale that where listed last winter... and they're still over priced. I know these guys are needing the money they're asking, but right now the timber market doesn't support it.
Around here the markets are strong. But the loggers wanting older used equipment aren't out there any more. They all want 2-5 years old and low hours. And single bunks forwarders and small grapple cable machines just aren't the majority any more. Big double bunks are king around here.
other problem here is our dollar sucks so a lot of our machines are being bought by people from over seas , that 240B went to Russia and bought without anybody looking at it , just transfer the money to his bank account . Engine had a ton of blow-by and oil/water mix coming out of the blow by tube , winch had the lever on top that operates it broken cause valve was seized, blade bearing were gone on both sides, upper pin in frame center section was loose and beat the tapered part out of the frame , lots of other things so I said not for this old guy
ya by-law is pretty touchy here , I see no way a forwarder will ever work here , you do not drive to the tree here that is why no grapples here either , just way to many trees standing in the road you cannot touch so long cable .
How much longer before the epa tells us "you can't use that skidder till a tier 5 motor is in it" ?
@Ed_K (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=257)
EPA? Try the states, Oregon has been trying to do that this year the day is coming the older still good running equipment will leave this country for good.
I would think we would not have to deal with those laws around here , we got backwards here, small skidders and bigger trees , up north small trees and huge skidders
ya I talked to a couple dealers and they pretty much are bought out of any good skidders , there all going over seas , Good green 230 and 240 are gone in a flash
602 tigercat looks like it would be a nice machine but i don't think I'd want to have to make the payments. Guess that's why I always buy old twice worn out junk and try to make it nice which is a frustrating way to go lol. Your 230 is one of the last ones isn't it? Probably be money ahead to just go through it where you already know the machine
Timberjack 240C in exile doing forest work in Croatia. (3 minutes)
Timberjack 240C! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/kM7xPFXHVN0)
The stuff is out there, I've seen a couple 240C's sell QUICK. A decent 540G3 brings 70-90 half worn out. The irons not getting smaller, that 640L I move is bigger than my 460 dual arch but I will say that's a nice machine. Your not further ahead throwing work into your machine ? The last 240C ever sold thru loggers in Glens falls NY sits in a barn 20 miles from me, last I heard they wanted 90k 🤣
Im already found a new crate motor for mine , I was just dreaming of air and heat
the only difference between a 240C and mine is the winch, the rest is the same
Quote from: ehp on August 31, 2019, 08:12:35 AM
Im already found a new crate motor for mine , I was just dreaming of air and heat
On our open cab D4 we added one of the external heater kits it still works after 20+ years.
I closed in my 240A with lexan and put a red dot heater in the cab it's far from ideal but does help a little
ya , its just in the winter time when the wind is 30 plus mph which is most days for me being so close to the lake and its not frozen over its not a lot of fun , your wet from the spray and it well below freezing
Quote from: Maine logger88 on August 31, 2019, 12:45:06 PM
I closed in my 240A with lexan and put a red dot heater in the cab it's far from ideal but does help a little
I did the same with my 240B Jack. A well spent 200$ for the material and a couple of hrs to fit.
ya I think I might be fixing faster than I thought but we will see , clutch is not to great today but was pulling big stuff
New lexan and floor mounted heater in my 230 forwarder makes it somewhat bearable. Yrs ago I always swore I wouldnt have a cab dozer, been around 2 recently and it's so nice.
ya my skidsteer has a/c and heat and its nice when its snowing or when its 100f outside
so has anyone ran a TJ 360 , one with cummins in it ?, just thinking about trying to make my job easier on me and my old body
I ran a 360c for a guy 10-15 years ago. I remember it being awful on fuel and the climb to get on was definitely a "climb". It did have a radio though which kinda neat. I don't really see much benefit for you if you are trying to make things easier.
well the 3 of us had a talk today, me , myself and I . Were thinking we should up grade to abit bigger skidder . By-law said no problem if its 120 inches wide as long as Im driving it cause I watch real close on what Im doing . Now big question is what do I get. I honestly like the clark or pretty much timberjack of the same design, cummins motor , clark tranny , clark winch . I have not been around the newer johndeere stuff and the price on stuff like the last 540 or 548 is just crazy
I know where a couple really big Clark's are. Good shape too.
648 glll torque converter. Fast light on its feet easy to operate. You can put someone from there car in it and be fairly productive. Never ran a Clark but like the simplicity and power shift is a must. Costly but nice.
I looked at a timberjack 360 yesterday, single arch grapple and winch, heat and air. I passed on it , it had 28l tires on it and was 123 inches wide . Just going to keep looking
Quote from: Ed_K on August 29, 2019, 09:12:38 AM
How much longer before the epa tells us "you can't use that skidder till a tier 5 motor is in it" ?
Realistic question. California wont allow any truck older than 2010 in the state and is in the process of outlawing owner op truckers being leased onto carrier MC #s due to wage classification.
Insanity is only gonna spread.
Remember they paid owner operators to update Mike
@mike_belben (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=33722)
Im not too familiar but my understanding is most of the money went to out of state city slickers with the ability to position themselves.. and most normal little guys got nothing. I could be wrong, just repeating what i was told. I have zero concern with california and its self created problems.
Theres a nice 360D / 540G3 with 7500hrs @ Sharps in NH for sale, 23.1 rubber, about as close to a "small" skidder as your going to find. Nothing wrong with a 360/460 jack, guys take the windows out and cry when they start having electrical issues, a shifter is 2500 bucks now.
Im thinking 2 ways right now , 450C or buy a frame and build what I want . I got about 2 weeks left where I am then its fixing time for my machine , depends on how much rain we get. I might be done abit sooner
I am of the opinion that if youre a keep and hold for lifer, building your own has a decent ROI and maintenance will never retire the machine. A man will always build what he can figure out easily when it acts up.
Up until carb/epa got involved, a simple man could maintain all this simple iron. When engineers fill them with electronic gizmos and proprietary parts, its service life becomes much shorter. Olivers, cletracs, 8Ns.. Theyll be around forever, maintained by mere hobbyists. But barney rubble probably cant troubleshoot the blinkie beepy problems on a new ponnse, nor afford much downtime. Its all getting too advanced and too expensive. The tech on a new skidder is far beyond the 1970s helicopters i worked on, just to drag wood. Much smaller wood than in 1970 i may add.
Wouldn't an Awassos skidder fit the build about perfect?
Build what you want,good idea. Than it's just the way you want it.
I have seen those small skidders and talked to the guy that makes them in person, I honestly feel they are way to small to pull the timber size I seem to cut normally , a 230/240 TJ is very close to being to small and its kind of hard on them. I had a 450 TJ short frame but it had a 4-53 in it , that was a great skidder and would work well here I feel. Ya I do abit of long skidding but most times Im around 1/4 of a mile , A mile is a real long skid here cause there is always a cross road . I want cummins and want clark winch, I guess the newer jd winches are good as well. , the 450 had 23.1 by 26 on it and I fine with that as I will not be pulling huge hitches with it . ?The 450 really was not that much bigger than what I got but enough it pulled timber easy . I would like to stay away from any computer stuff on the machine so that's why Im thinking mid 90's or earlier . Now 99% of that kind of skidder is going to be beat to death already so I will have to build it up from there . I guess the biggest thing is my idea of wood's ready and every other person skidder I looked at are not on the same page . Their idea is if it starts it woods ready, my idea is I want it to go at least a year with zero problems other than say hdy hoses or stuff I break
I know where there are 2x 450Cs, both factory cables with 24.5s and deere winches, things keep going downhill with wood prices they can be bought for under 25k I bet.
450C wasnt friendly to work on, I'm telling you once you buy a skidder that the cab tips you wont ever want to go back.
my plan is not to work on it but put it to work ;D
I just replaced the master brake cyl. on my taylor other than couplings for the blade to frame an new tires the skidder is all rebuilt. only took 15k and 10yrs to do. now I'm to old to put it to work ;D .
Build it once. P pumped 6BT, off the shelf electric PTO central hydraulic pump run via serpent belt, cheapest style of spin on filter heads and all straight simple hoses. With no stupid access issues! Color coded wire and terminal strips in easy location for circuit probing, and nothing more complicated than a solenoid or relay.
... Covered in LED floodlights. Anderson jumper plug and a pair of coolant quick connects sitting right there.
6BTs start so good in the cold, and grid heaters are so reliable that i cant believe anyone stays with a ford long enough to go through more than one set of glowplugs. [Or GP harness, or controller, or batteries.. Or any of the other seasonal superduty maintenance. Im stirring the pot now!] :p
6BT's only start good in the cold IF they have a grid heater. I've ran ones that didn't, below about 30 degrees the one wouldn't start without ether. The 4b in my Case skid loader doesn't start very well in the cold either. It will start down to about 15°, but the starter and battery get a real workout. Once it gets below freezing it is always parked where I can plug in the block heater.
I dont think ive dealt with a cummins that lacked grid heat yet. The biggest challenge i always had with old junk in winter was getting it to crank fast enough. Weak batteries, crummy wires, arc'd up solenoids and worn down starter brushes/commutators all contributed but thats the life of a working poor guy i guess.
I made a little chimney out of a stub of pipe with some standoffs and would use sawdust+oil in an old frying pan to make a low fire under the frozen machine of the day. Then i relocated to cure it once and for all!
Does a grid heater heat the intake air and sit in the metal elbow on top the engine? My Cummins 4B has the housing but no heater. I should add one if that is what it is. With a grid heater and two good batteries, how cold do you think I could start my TJ230 with the 4B? Mountain.
Yep. They make a night and day difference- I've thought about retrofitting one on my skid steer as well. My 97 Dodge Cummins will start down to -20° if you cycle the grid a couple of times. I would expect similar performance on your TJ, being that it doesn't have a tremendous amount af hydraulic drag. Our Ponsse machines are Mercedes powered and have grid heaters as well. Same thing, they will cold start at temperatures that you wish they wouldn't😬 We have a couple of forwarders (new machines)that start really hard, even with the engine coolant preheaters. I suspect they might have malfunctioning grid heaters, I'll be suggesting the operators get them checked out. One of my buddies has an older Ponsse Ergo harvester, it came from Georgia originally. It has always started super hard- the engine preheater will run, coolant temp is 180° but it just doesn't want to fire. One day he was fighting with it, and I asked him if he cycled his grid heater a couple of times. He asked "how do I know if it's cycling?". I explained the procedure- turn the key on, the grid heater yellow light illuminates. Wait for it to turn off and repeat, then crank engine. "I don't think I have that light, nothing comes on." He got looking into it, he had an older "starting aid" that apparently injected and ignited fuel into the intake, sounded crazy but it was disconnected regardless. So he had Ponsse install a grid preheater, this was at the end of the winter so he didn't get to really put it through the paces- I suspect life will be easier this winter though!😁
Mountain, I've never actually had one out, but if I remember from pictures the grid is self contained in a metal fitting that would either replace the elbow you speak of, or sit underneath it.
Yeah its just a 12vdc toaster element really. My dodge would start at any temp it would still crank pretty fast at. Any time it failed to run was low current or gelled fuel. My komatsu looks like a 6bt but its a jap clone with different pump. That lunges to life as do all the bosch inline pumps i have experience with.. As long as they crank quick.
Dt466 with bosch MW has a cold start feature in the pump. No grid heat or glow plugs but if you hold pedal to floor then turn key the governor pulls back injection timing until you lift off. Huge difference in starting. Most people dont know about that.
Thanks for the info gang. I am going to look into a grid heater. Mountain.
cold starting is in the pump and its timing and fuel. Our fuel is better than yours I believe , we bought a new clark with 6bt in it and 40 below F that skidder would start no problems and it had nothing like glowplugs , the forwarder had a 4bt in it with glow plugs and it would start easy at that temp . I will never see that temp here by the lake , 20 below F is brutal for here . That Clark was the best skidder we ever had , I put over 11,000 hours on it and did ZERO to it
your fuel is better? maybe our fuel comes from your country. pretty much all the fuel in maine came from st john nb
Canada has Yin and Yang diesel issues. The winter diesel is lighter and lower density which helps in starting. The downside is that it is low in lubricants which is tough on engines; no not an expert...just googling.
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
All new diesel is light on sulfur, ultra low sulfur diesel makes a heck of a dehumidifier and loves to pickup particles.
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 01, 2019, 07:41:11 AM
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
All new diesel is light on sulfur, ultra low sulfur diesel makes a heck of a dehumidifier and loves to pickup particles.
Does that impact cold weather starting? Not that we have really hard cold here in VA.
We hardly ever get a winter blend here so I can't say for sure but I've never had an issue starting in the low single digits, now getting my body going in that kind of weather is a whole another ball game.
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 01, 2019, 07:48:30 AM
now getting my body going in that kind of weather is a whole another ball game.
Ruuuuyt?
Thats southern for "i agree."
we already started running a winter blend here , ya its hot here but north of me a couple hours its not so nice and at any moment the winds can change and bring the cold done this way, Its raining pretty hard here right now . So my frame taper is getting bad on my skidder so I did some looking at pictures and found on other machines like the 350-450 tj for a few years used the same pin mine has but had a frame taper sleeve in the frame that bolted in so Im just going to machine my frame to take the sleeve . Pot quite a hole in the trees I got left on this job then tear my skidder in a thousand pieces
Terrible shame that the lack of competition in the market has left a yawning gap of small/medium sized maneuverable skidders built with easy to source parts.
What is the situation for the skidder overhaulers in the places like Maine? Still a big enough pool of old machines to work on?
its the EPA that's the problem, they still would be building small skidders but you cannot put everything that the EPA wants in a small area so they have to build bigger machines to fit it in. Anyone look at a Tigercat 602 , you open the side covers and take a look inside , the muffler is bigger than the engine
I think the other issue is the market, I just don't think there is one for small skidders or at least at a price range where a small timer could afford one. Who can afford a new 602 or 610 tigercat?
If the EPA would allow someone to produce a limited amount per year like they do with cars I think you might see em pop up again.
It's not even the manufacturers, look at the way the industry has went. Lack of help, insurance costs, starve to death here trying to handcut behind a small skidder.
Theres a NICE 06-07? 604 Tigercat for sale on Lumbermens, came from Canada out of the oilfield, never been in the woods, be worth looking at. I see a 360D and 170s2 for sale in Manitoba very decently priced and both clean, 28L tires but that you can change. I'm slowly shopping for another cable skidder 🤣
Dietz have put out a stage v TCD 5.2, could firepower an old skidded to be cleaner than a 602. There are a few new techs that make diesel combustion cleaner and therefore a smaller exhaust system. Probably need an environmental grant to help take on a small area of small trees.
Quote from: Riwaka on October 02, 2019, 09:23:42 PM
Dietz have put out a stage v TCD 5.2, could firepower an old skidded to be cleaner than a 602. There are a few new techs that make diesel combustion cleaner and therefore a smaller exhaust system. Probably need an environmental grant to help take on a small area of small trees.
Problem with that is you'll need to get the epa stamp on the machine to even run it after the swap just like california did.
I just don't see EPA as the issue here, they make clean powerful new diesel engines that are certified. They have the certifications so there is not really anything more to do. The $10k extra to have clean diesel engine isn't the reason there is no skidder in that size class. Also, all the skidder companies went out of business starting in the 90s through 2008. Then CAT recently. I think it is because they just focus on southern pine plantation fiber pull. Sort of like detroit loosing the worlds car market in the 60s as they started to just focus on larger cars with no thought to efficiency.
Frankly probably an opportunity for someone. Like the guy doing the idry vac kiln. Competitors were several hundred thousand plus for very large kilns. He cut the price to a tenth of that in a smaller form factor. Or like Toyota of 1960 to the GM and make a corolla. GM laughed and that is all she wrote.
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
The problem isn't just slapping the engine cert on at that point the whole machine needs certified. I bet by the time you got EPA ok and just ROPS to meet OSHA as well as Oregon requirements it'd cost more then a new Deere.
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 03, 2019, 06:36:28 AM
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
The problem isn't just slapping the engine cert on at that point the whole machine needs certified. I bet by the time you got EPA ok and just ROPS to meet OSHA as well as Oregon requirements it'd cost more then a new Deere.
Well see it is Oregon that's the holdup here :D
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 03, 2019, 06:36:28 AM
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
The problem isn't just slapping the engine cert on at that point the whole machine needs certified. I bet by the time you got EPA ok and just ROPS to meet OSHA as well as Oregon requirements it'd cost more then a new Deere.
I do wonder what the components costs would be if bought at some scale.
Quote from: nativewolf on October 03, 2019, 06:43:28 AM
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 03, 2019, 06:36:28 AM
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
The problem isn't just slapping the engine cert on at that point the whole machine needs certified. I bet by the time you got EPA ok and just ROPS to meet OSHA as well as Oregon requirements it'd cost more then a new Deere.
Well see it is Oregon that's the holdup here :D
A side entry shovel or road builder cab adds 50 or so thousand that's a requirement here to enter the woods no questions asked after 2007 model year.
To the components it'd depend a lot on what type of components if you did a direct drive transmission over say a hydrostat it'll be cheaper, but can you make it user friendly enough to get it out for clutch swaps? Nose length is another issue how long is it going to be for the radiator and cooler package? The winch good luck last I heard allied is what's left and they will not sell to the general public.
As a side note has anyone tried Allied about one of the Ranger skidders? There's not a whole lot of demand for a small skidder out there and a huge issue the little that is isn't willing to realize they're a small small small niche that needs to pay the big price for it vs a bigger demand where the price can be spread out over a greater number of units sold.
Ya, I think that one 360D that was SUPPOSE to be for sale is a scam, it was listed in 3 different cities in Canada and now its gone . That add came off a site in Canada and was to be like 1700 hours which I find very hard to believe . The site it came off has a lot of things posted that are not real
Quote from: ehp on October 03, 2019, 07:22:28 AM
Ya, I think that one 360D that was SUPPOSE to be for sale is a scam, it was listed in 3 different cities in Canada and now its gone . That add came off a site in Canada and was to be like 1700 hours which I find very hard to believe . The site it came off has a lot of things posted that are not real
That burns my britches when people do that
ya, donot try and buy a skidsteer off it, its not much fun . Oh its my husband but he passed away and machine is sitting in a container in the North Pole BUT if you send me $25,000 I will ship it to you , heard that line way more times than I wanted to hear
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 03, 2019, 07:09:01 AM
Quote from: nativewolf on October 03, 2019, 06:43:28 AM
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 03, 2019, 06:36:28 AM
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
The problem isn't just slapping the engine cert on at that point the whole machine needs certified. I bet by the time you got EPA ok and just ROPS to meet OSHA as well as Oregon requirements it'd cost more then a new Deere.
Well see it is Oregon that's the holdup here :D
A side entry shovel or road builder cab adds 50 or so thousand that's a requirement here to enter the woods no questions asked after 2007 model year.
To the components it'd depend a lot on what type of components if you did a direct drive transmission over say a hydrostat it'll be cheaper, but can you make it user friendly enough to get it out for clutch swaps? Nose length is another issue how long is it going to be for the radiator and cooler package? The winch good luck last I heard allied is what's left and they will not sell to the general public.
As a side note has anyone tried Allied about one of the Ranger skidders? There's not a whole lot of demand for a small skidder out there and a huge issue the little that is isn't willing to realize they're a small small small niche that needs to pay the big price for it vs a bigger demand where the price can be spread out over a greater number of units sold.
No west coast entry anymore?
Quote from: quilbilly on October 03, 2019, 11:36:59 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 03, 2019, 07:09:01 AM
Quote from: nativewolf on October 03, 2019, 06:43:28 AM
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 03, 2019, 06:36:28 AM
@nativewolf (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)
The problem isn't just slapping the engine cert on at that point the whole machine needs certified. I bet by the time you got EPA ok and just ROPS to meet OSHA as well as Oregon requirements it'd cost more then a new Deere.
Well see it is Oregon that's the holdup here :D
A side entry shovel or road builder cab adds 50 or so thousand that's a requirement here to enter the woods no questions asked after 2007 model year.
To the components it'd depend a lot on what type of components if you did a direct drive transmission over say a hydrostat it'll be cheaper, but can you make it user friendly enough to get it out for clutch swaps? Nose length is another issue how long is it going to be for the radiator and cooler package? The winch good luck last I heard allied is what's left and they will not sell to the general public.
As a side note has anyone tried Allied about one of the Ranger skidders? There's not a whole lot of demand for a small skidder out there and a huge issue the little that is isn't willing to realize they're a small small small niche that needs to pay the big price for it vs a bigger demand where the price can be spread out over a greater number of units sold.
No west coast entry anymore?
The rear or west coast side entry is the same price from what we've seen, Oregon requires basically a BC cab it just doesn't have to be rear entry.
Barge, you see that pretty much new 604 posted for sale, to rich for my blood but you would look great running it
The one @ Kleis ? The DEF scares me more than the payment.
no further south, close to $200,000 for it . Only you can afford that, I think I will wait , I see skidder prices dropping quite dast
Quote from: ehp on October 07, 2019, 08:26:12 PM
no further south, close to $200,000 for it . Only you can afford that, I think I will wait , I see skidder prices dropping quite dast
🤣.... little payments come on. I see some stuff getting cheaper but so much is just junk out there. I'm going back for a while just so I can float the next 4-5 machines and if they sit they sit, what I make when I'm home is a bonus, Im not going to keep cutting wood and sell it for nothing, I see guys cutting oak right now just to keep the lights on.
Well at least Hickory market is hot. Do you have any hickory there?
White oak is ok and red came up some. Niche markets help. That's what I'm cutting oak and the mill has there own market for it.
I've got some on this other job, 15-20k ft, nothing great for hickory, it's around but spotty. Ive got ALOT of nice red oak to cut, not selling good wood for short money, park stuff first. Ive got 1 job to clean up, got another one to go cut that would make environmentalist cry 🤣 sometimes these things need to be done,
Ok, the big export order on hickory favors small heartwood, if you have big heartwood and it is nice and can rustle up a truck the US veneer mills are looking for that with all heartwood. Our RO is back up to 650, some 200 to go. Canadian mills are buying veneer at over a dollar and will truck, paid same week. The problem is the sawlogs in the middle don't fetch much in canada. They do pay on international scale so that may be good for your logs that are slightly smaller diameters than down here.
Oh also, there is a strong white pine export order somewhere you'd have to PM to discuss that one.
well I got the call from the mill today , donot buy any costly bush for next summer till we see how this is going to work out, no price drop this winter , hard maple and red oak market is not great but we are good till the spring
So I told the log buyer I hope that million feet of cottonwood I just bought at $750/1000 standing is still a great move ;D, he said I should do fine at that :D
Quote from: ehp on October 08, 2019, 08:47:45 PM
So I told the log buyer I hope that million feet of cottonwood I just bought at $750/1000 standing is still a great move ;D, he said I should do fine at that :D
man, you are robbing old ladies with those prices. On the other hand, you just cornered the entire veneer cottonwood market. :D
I hate cottonwood , so bad my eyes kind of donot see it when I cutting , its just like its not there ;D
Quote from: ehp on October 08, 2019, 08:45:56 PM
well I got the call from the mill today , donot buy any costly bush for next summer till we see how this is going to work out, no price drop this winter , hard maple and red oak market is not great but we are good till the spring
Things aren't good, I see guys on FB hammering it out talking like they aren't taking a beating shipping good wood, I've got my doubts. These guys who have been used to the gravy and haven't survived on pulp checks and firewood are in for a shock, I've got no shame repo-ing nice low hr iron for the bank.
we donot have a single newer skidder in my whole area , everything is old and small. Kind of strange thou , tigercat is made here and head office is like 25 minutes away and zero tigercat stuff here
prices are sure dropping on used skidders so I think I will just sit back and watch for abit
The forestry equipment price drops are why I took the trade for the wheel loader for my harvester. Older harvester prices are tanking and the ones out there with a big price tag like I had on mine have been for sale for a long time. Got out while I still could. I see there's a 540 JD cable machine in a trade mag with 2,500 original owner hours for 120,000.00.
Quote from: ehp on October 09, 2019, 07:12:19 AM
we donot have a single newer skidder in my whole area , everything is old and small. Kind of strange thou , tigercat is made here and head office is like 25 minutes away and zero tigercat stuff here
Could repaint all the old skidders in the area (check the regs, permissions) in Tigercat yellow or close to. I would guess there might be a few extra Tigercat factory visitors who might include a bit more of a road trip with their #Demo2020 attendance. (That event is only held once in four years) 2020 event near Gatineau, Ontario. https://demointernational.com/en/ (https://demointernational.com/en/) (Tigercat purchased ROI two weeks ago, so tc still growing) https://www.tigercat.com/roi/ (https://www.tigercat.com/roi/)
Certain models that aren't beat just wont depreciate as fast but the ads with "super rare" on the 548G3s asking almost what they went for new with 7-10k hrs are comical. Nice clean factory cables are getting harder to find but you go on FB and ask and 10x decent machines pop up for sale. I'm 99% sure I'm headed to VT to pick up a slasher this week, guys are down sizing and getting out, right now the deals are out there if you hunt a bit, I should have jumped on that hood 24k, went dirt cheap because how many guys want one. Salesman from Propac keeps busting on me about my antique, the nice delimbers that are out there for decent money right now just sitting idle.
ya I see some 10 to 13 year old 548 g111 and asking $138,000 , couple they are at $175,000. Good luck selling those at that price
All that makes me feel that someone should just make a small skidder, not firewood toy small but something that could still pull.
Lots of small loggers have gone out of business in WV this year, a couple are close in VA, many are older. In Southern VA it is more a fiber pull big boy show and the new skidders will pull fiber, they just can't do anything but a clearcut and a good size one at that.
I don't think they would sell enough to make one. Everyone (around here) wants bigger. I never thought I'd see the 948 around here and it is. Crazy. The only guys that want smaller don't want big payments. I don't want any payments lol. Besides if a guy had the cash flow you could restore a old one cheaper than a new one.
There are a number of smaller European made skidders, they still use the common brands of engines. (HSM, Welte, Camox, Ritter, Equus, Irum, Otmar Noe etc) HSM in Germany have the 805 cable skidder - 140hp, dual winch. It is around 4-5000 lbs? less weight than a Tigercat 602. They might have updated the engine as Europeans mostly have strict diesel emissions on the new equipment.
German wages are high etc, so not likely to be a low cost machine.
HSM 805
Tractor HSM 805 S - LOGISVEN - 41 www.logisven.com - YouTube (https://youtu.be/kbJZxapPi8k)
Could ship back USA built JD tractors that have moderate hours on them from Europe. Put a Forest spec cab on, and winch on the back, Forestry tires, rims etc.
End up with a lower emission spec machine, still pull a log or two and most spare parts/ service from the JD ag dealer.
Kotschenreuther
KOTSCHENREUTHER Produktion - YouTube (https://youtu.be/rFuA4jtNIzU)
Quote from: Riwaka on October 12, 2019, 08:15:15 AM
There are a number of smaller European made skidders, they still use the common brands of engines. (HSM, Welte, Camox, Ritter, Equus, Irum, Otmar Noe etc) HSM in Germany have the 805 cable skidder - 140hp, dual winch. It is around 4-5000 lbs? less weight than a Tigercat 602. They might have updated the engine as Europeans mostly have strict diesel emissions on the new equipment.
German wages are high etc, so not likely to be a low cost machine.
HSM 805
Tractor HSM 805 S - LOGISVEN - 41 [url=http://www.logisven.com]Logisven ? Coordinación Logística de Transporte y Alquiler de Grúas ? Coordinación Logística y Grúas (https://youtu.be/kbJZxapPi8k) - YouTube[/url]
Could ship back USA built JD tractors that have moderate hours on them from Europe. Put a Forest spec cab on, and winch on the back, Forestry tires, rims etc.
End up with a lower emission spec machine, still pull a log or two and most spare parts/ service from the JD ag dealer.
Kotschenreuther
KOTSCHENREUTHER Produktion - YouTube (https://youtu.be/rFuA4jtNIzU)
You can't do that in the states our emission standards are different then EU, even used equipment must be over 20 years old or older to bypass emissions but even that loop hole is being closed up by different states.
There's the Haas timber hawk too, I haven't heard much about that. Supposed to be modeled after a 240 timberjack. But JD engine, cvt trans, dual winches. Probably couldn't import one like Skeans said.
I know there's a former big operator near me (runs a log yard and quarry now) he's had a 608 buncher, couple 450C grapples and a decent looking stroke delimber for sale for a long time now. Just rusting away. Too much money for beat equipment, that stuff is too old now, anyone still in the game and the market for production equipment has updated.
I'll keep my old Clark running on weekends. Would like to eventually update to something slightly newer. I'm just talking better brakes, maybe not so much welding all over the machine. Maybe a cab but that's dreaming
I look at the bottom line quite hard and what it comes down to is yes I got a OLD 1997 TJ 230/240 skidder, they keep telling me is a 240C but I got a 230 cab. When I order parts thou its for a 240C just no JD winch . I know the person that ordered that machine and he hates JD so that's why the different winch. So I cut X number of trees per day with the old skidder , It owes me nothing and has paid for itself time and time again. So lets say I buy a newer skidder , Now it should pull more wood per day but its going to cost me more to pull that wood , price of the machine and fuel and stuff. My machine burns 10 to 15 gallons a day of fuel, skidder does not run hard all day as I do the cutting and bucking up myself to . So at the end did that newer skidder make me any more money at the end of the year once everything is paid and one think a lot of people do not think about is how much more acres of bush did I go thru with the newer skidder that year , If I cover 25% more acres to produce the same amount of profit cause my logging cost is higher Im not making myself any more money cause my area of real white wood is quite small , at most its 60 miles by 40 miles square
this week the log trucks hauled 20,000 feet of logs but I got Im thinking 22 to 24,000 feet on the landing and the week starts on Monday so I still got rest of today and tomorrow to cut , my landing was pretty much bare on Monday morning . That's a real good week for me and I do better as the temps lower . I like the 40 to 50 degree temps . Im getting old and I know it
I still see youtube channels doing engine swaps. Could be historic video from 20 years ago, uploaded recently? I don't think it was fiilmed in Costa Rica.
Cat engine into the rice 'bank out'
Harvest Tractors are Out of the Barn | A Quick Tractor Video! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/MSPpwSoNpaU?t=467)
Some of the US farmers before they bring back any more used UK tractors etc better check the rules. They have been buying and shipping the used UK JD tractors for less than they can purchase the equivalent machine in the US used tractor market for.
The newer machines' engine tags should have a combined tag e.g meets Final Tier 4 and EU Stage V etc.
This has some engine tags from 2016 etc. The Deutz engine example has made in Germany and there is wording meets US EPA and California etc
https://nrmm.london/sites/default/files/NRMM-Practical-Guide.pdf (https://nrmm.london/sites/default/files/NRMM-Practical-Guide.pdf)
@Riwaka (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=27844)
I have a Final tier 4 machine from Deere there's a North American engine and then there's the Euro engine they are different emissions.
Quote from: Riwaka on October 12, 2019, 08:15:15 AMHSM in Germany have the 805 cable skidder - 140hp, dual winch. It is around 4-5000 lbs? less weight than a Tigercat 602
the 805 weights 9.2to/ 20k lbs. they are good skidders from Switzerland, welte from germany. well built machines, but forget cheap in specialized european forestry equipment. the 805, dual remote winch, remote driving, krane, state of the art technology and engines is around 300-350k $, used they go for 160k with 8k hours, way too much IMO
I got finished the last bush today, moved skidder to the shop Im going to use and will start rebuilding next week. I got a pile of bush to walk and other stuff I got to get done , the center hinge section will take the most time to redo , Going to take some machining to make the new parts fit but that never is a problem for me
Barge, find me a 2014 548 with winch with under 2000 hours for $25,000 , I will take that lol
Quote from: ehp on October 17, 2019, 05:52:30 PM
Barge, find me a 2014 548 with winch with under 2000 hours for $25,000 , I will take that lol
You've got to add a 6th digit to that, in bald eagle money not maple leaf dollars 😂 The stuffs out there, I'm so cheap I wait and the good deals dont exist.
Bald eagle money and maple leaf dollars😂
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/72035983_2440924032850495_3343101272172527616_n.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1571432036)
I had it out with a company up north over that original Timbco final I bought, credit card company wacked me pretty good for a "currency exchange fee" ? Then it was wrong, then wanted to give me back my refund at the current exchange rate.
you should try going the other way and see how it feels , banks pretty much ask you do you want 3 fingers or 4 ;D
whatever the bank rate is to be add about 5% more cost to that and they wonder how the banks keep making record profits every year
I wish I could leaned cash at 22% to people legally just like credit cards companies do , I can borrow it for 6 or 7% and leaned it back out , now that's making money
Quote from: ehp on October 18, 2019, 07:26:38 PM
I wish I could leaned cash at 22% to people legally just like credit cards companies do , I can borrow it for 6 or 7% and leaned it back out , now that's making money
Everytime I have a new business plan that word "legally" just kills it 😂 NY is so regulated that a pay-day lending or a car title lending place wont fly, no diff than serious pawnshops, go down south and they are everywhere. The gov will lay and wait for you, money ruins everyone and you eventually get doing the shady stuff, next thing you know someone flips and we are all going to the booty bin. We went to get on the boat for crew change in Redhook Brooklyn one night and found this guy in a suit, hands and feet wrapped in duct tape floating next to us, something tells me he may have been behind on his payments 😂
Quote from: BargeMonkey on October 18, 2019, 09:00:11 PMcar title lending place wont fly, no diff than serious pawnshops, go down south and they are everywhere.
I went down to Daytona to crew a car a few years ago. When going out to dinner, we were stopped at a traffic light. Next to us was a shop that RENTED / Sold / Leased wheels! Not like "wheels" as in your whole car is your set of "wheels", nope, they had rim and tire packages they'd rent or lease! That through me in a tailspin! I was still beside myself as we came to the next traffic light, that one had a Krispy Kreme, no more thinking about wheels, time to buy breakfast, and 8:15pm!
Ya, we are very strict up here , have to see on Monday with our election who is going to run this place , the 1 running it now is driving the bus straight into the deepest hole in the ground on earth, its real sad but he promises the ones that donot want to work that they will not have to and he gave them weed , its a sad place
Granite, I was surprised when I was shown the wheel rental places in Georgia, too! I thought about ponying up for a set of 24" spinners for the wife's minivan for the weekend...😂 I saw another example of it being all about the wheels one spring down in Kansas City, MO. We pulled up to a 4 way intersection and to the right of us was a dude and his lady in a jet black Corvette convertible. Gold trim, roll bar, and low profile spoked wheels. They were dressed in jet black clothes and gold, gold, gold! My wife and I were still wowing over that, when at the next intersection we saw about an 82 Chevy Suburban. Faded blue paint with some rust patches. But the clincher was, he had the same gold spiked lo pro wheels as the Vette, and judging by the driver's demeanor, he was just as hip as the other folks😂
So I got my skidder is 1000 pieces and I had thought I will just phone cummins and get a new engine , well that did not go as planned . Cummins had another engine shop call me and there were ZERO new complete engines anywhere which I found real weird but there was a rebuilt sitting in Florida . So I checked with a engine shop by me . 6 new engines in stock so ordered 1 from them and there swapping my mounts and stuff so its just a drop in. I asked him why cummins has no engines and he showed me why. I Gov't had just spent a full month at his engine shop checked to make sure every engine left there was up to code on how much pollution it produced and to make sure no engine had stuff like DEF deleted. 1 wrong thing and he was out of business. He told me Cummins will only work on machines that are in their shop because of this so they can prove the engine is put back in the way it was built . Guy also told me he could not order any motors from the USA now but he could still order new cummins from other countries that cummins has engine plants in
craziness...
Glad to hear you found your engine though.
So I put in a new cummins 4BTA engine in last Nov. Not a rebuild , its brandnew , So any ways as soon as I fired it up it was burning motor oil pretty good but it started real good and it was below freezing outside . So I ended up pulling that motor out and taking up back to where it came from. They sure did not believe my thinking on what was wrong but soon found out I was 110% correct . I knew it had to be the valve seals and sure enough they were not pushed onto the valve guides but were sitting on the valves so they fixed that and it worked ok till a day ago and I went to about 50% power and then she quit but I was on the landing so a lot better than in the bush. Engine has brand new injection pump, lift pump injectors and turbo so talking to engine place and this motor is coming out AGAIN and going to their place, they got another new motor to replace mine with, just a real pain in the butt pulling motor out and putting back in .
Ed you could have prevented all this extra work by just driving down the road and getting a new 602 / 604 😂 The guy who bought my 405 finally got every ounce of life out of that 4BTA, it's got to have 15-16k hours on the original block and 1 new head ?
yes you are correct I could of but not smart enough to do that ;D, motor is to of been built in Brazil at a cummins plant . I see 2 or 3 of those 602 are for sale again and I think you need to be a young lad to get in and out a 100 plus times a day , they are high and the door is brutal heavy and the steps to get in are not setup the best
Just an idea but has anyone put the electronic bell chokers on a skidder?
I remember seeing those for the first time on a documentary video prolly 15 years ago and always wonder about a skidder also. Would be nice.
I am back at looking for abit bigger machine as well , have not really figured out forsure but maybe a 450c or 666 or 667 clark , Yes I plan on rebuilding machine cause they will be worn out
Electronic choker bells used on cable skidders for years in places like chile.
I wonder if there is a better cummins engine (or other brand) in their warehouse or elsewhere?
There is a TC 602 with cable and grapple for some mythical wealthy logger.
602 Grapple Skidder | Compact grapple skidder | Tigercat (https://www.tigercat.com/product/602-grapple-skidder/)
Probably possible to update the power train in a 666 if you locate the right components and laser scan dimensions etc.
I had a brandnew clark 666 with 6tb cummins in it , was the best skidder we ever had. I put thousands of hours on it and ZERO problems , I also had a 450 tj and that machine worked very well to . Riwaka I live where TC are made and know the head guys . I have been to the plant where the skidders and forwarders are built . I seen the 3- 602's being built and they had 2 of the 602 ready to be shipped. This is just my thinking on how it is built , its a grapple skidder without the grapple but pretty much everything now is just that
So on Sat I figured why not so I got my rebuilt injection pump back but nothing was wrong with it but any ways I put it on and bleed the air out of system , pump place sent another shut off with pump, my was cable shut off, still will not start so put the new elect. off and on piece in pump, machine started right up so been skidding for 2 days with it
@ehp (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1195) Great when you have some good news like this. I guess I have 1 more month til the WO Veneer market stops and I can only imagine how hard it would be dealing with the stress of a faulty machine.
its a machine , cannot get mad at it . Machine has been very good to me and owes me nothing . Machine is honestly in very good shape as I keep it up very good . What happened is a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance but it did
cut a few white and a few red oak veneer logs today here , mostly timber logs
Those fuel shut off solonoids come in 12 and 24 versions.
Quote from: ehp on April 13, 2020, 07:03:14 PM
So on Sat I figured why not so I got my rebuilt injection pump back but nothing was wrong with it but any ways I put it on and bleed the air out of system , pump place sent another shut off with pump, my was cable shut off, still will not start so put the new elect. off and on piece in pump, machine started right up so been skidding for 2 days with it
What injection pump is this?
VE rotary