Miss Moose and I got our prius

Modat22 · January 10, 2007, 11:19:24 AM

Hello everyone Miss Moose and I got our prius last Tuesday and so far we are very happy with the car. Our average mpg is 46 making our 590 mile per week much more affordable.

Funny thing happened at a gas station during our first fill up. Some fella walked up to me with a mean look on his face. He called me a tree hugger and a bad person for the economy and walked off. I wish I had pictures of my sawmill to toss at him.

sawguy21 · January 10, 2007, 11:28:44 AM

Must have been an unemployed logger. 590 miles a week is a lot of driving and gas.

Modat22 · January 10, 2007, 11:43:37 AM

the wife and I have been driving 118 miles a day to and from work for 15 years now. We where spending around 240.00 plus per month for gas.

jon12345 · January 10, 2007, 12:44:14 PM

Thank you for helping solve global warming

Norm · January 10, 2007, 01:39:26 PM

That's darn good mileage Sam....but about this global warming thing, could you maybe burn some coal or something. I'm getting to like 40's in January. ;D

farmerdoug · January 10, 2007, 01:41:23 PM

You cannot please everyone all the time. :

Or so I have been told. ;)

Farmerdoug

Fla._Deadheader · January 10, 2007, 01:52:48 PM

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Bill · January 10, 2007, 03:22:03 PM

Congrats on your new Prius - lots of luck and long life.

A couple two years back a mechanic friend talked me into a VW TDI diesel. I ended up getting an '01 Jetta in 3/05 for driving around town. After almost two years I'm glad he talked me into it. I've been getting low to mid 40's around town and mid to 50's to 60 iffen I follow the speed limit and low 50's iffen I follow traffic on the interstate. It's good enough to keep up with traffic and I can understand the diesel pretty much. ( and we won't talk about the pick up's mpg - its what made me look for the car to begin with )

Only regret I hear is that in Europe the diesels get better ( I hear they've got Volvo wagons that can squeak out 60 or Accords ( ? ) that squeak out low 70's on the highways and Audi blew everyone off with TDI's at Sebring and LeMans - if you're interested in racing diesels ). So what I want know is why the oil companies and car companies can't do that for us in the US of A ?

Oh Well . . .

Fla._Deadheader · January 10, 2007, 03:49:53 PM

Honda and others to introduce Diesels in the USA in 2008. Ultra low sulphur has thrown a curve, but, use BIO-DIESEL . It's better 8) 8)

sawguy21 · January 10, 2007, 05:02:33 PM

North Americans have not bought enough diesel cars to keep the automakers interested. In Europe and Asia, gasoline has been prohibitively expensive compared to diesel, unlike here, and the perception has been that diesel cars are expensive, noisy, smelly and underpowered.

amberwood · January 10, 2007, 05:10:05 PM

Filled up the Forester this morning.

AU$1.32 per litre for 95RON, Diesel was AUD$1.22

Current exchange is about 79c US or 94c CAD to the AUD.

I see a diesel powered vehicle in the crystal ball.

DTR

Tom · January 10, 2007, 05:20:58 PM

Auto makers haven't produced enough diesel powered cars to interest North Americans.

Most of the public has shied away from vehicles that are more expensive up front, more expensive to maintain (they break), more expensive to insure and you have to plan fuel stops. It's only now that stations are installing diesel pumps and a station with a dozen pumps may have only one diesel nozzle.

If manufacturers want to sell diesel engines, they need to make them more attractive than gasoline engines. It's not all about the cost of fuel, it's about the total cost of transportation. That is one of the reasons that the alternate fuel vehicles are having a hard start.

When you add the cost of a diesel engine to the fact that Diesel fuel in the USA has surpassed Hi-test gasoline in cost, it's a wonder that some of the OTR trucks haven't gone back to gasoline.

amberwood · January 10, 2007, 05:49:34 PM

Tom. Spot on.

We have access to diesel vehicles from virtually all of the Asian and European manufacturers in the passenger and commercial vehicle classes. Yes they are usually a little more expensive to purchase but will usually have a much higher return on the life of the engine. As a response to the market there is a much greater availability of diesel at the average service station. The usual might be for example 4 pumps each with 3 ULP options plus at least one LPG and one diesel pump. As a minimum. The Prius and similiar technology has made a small impact into the market but the purchase cost is a real burden..much greater than an equivalent capacity passenger vehicle in diesel or even a ULP variant with LPG fitted.
LPG has become so prevalent that both GM and Ford offer it as a factory fuel option on the larger ULP engined passenger vehicles. It is very popular with fleet and taxi operators.. especially at AUD32c a litre. Bear in mind that you use about 40% more LPG that ULP.

DTR

SwampDonkey · January 10, 2007, 07:17:15 PM

I was in a mall in Maine a couple weeks ago and in the windows of a RAV4 were signs that said "NO PART OF THIS VEHICLE WAS MADE IN THE USA" There was another message that stated that those signs could not be removed until sold. I've never seen that on foreign vehicles sold in Canada. I got a brand new RAV4 similar to the one in the mall.

I'm thinking Modat, that this was behind the motivation of the angry by-stander in the filling station. :P

scsmith42 · January 10, 2007, 10:41:07 PM

Tom - you hit the nail on the head. Fortunately more stations are installing diesel pumps, but it can still be a chore to find it - especially when traveling.

Also, the stations don't always keep the diesel pumps / nozzles / hoses / driveways clean, and that is also a turn-off for many consumers.

I for one can't wait for the newer, small diesels to hit the US market. But I'd like to see the manufacturers make them competitely priced. It's hard to imagine that the productions costs are as much greater for a diesel as the manufacturers charge (at least for my 6 liter Ford trucks).

Scott

isawlogs · January 10, 2007, 10:56:30 PM

Here it aint hard to find deisel , most all of the gas stations will have a deisel pump , lots of deisel pick-ups around .

ScottAR · January 11, 2007, 02:58:19 AM

Same here... I go where the big rigs fill up but park on the car side of the building.

My reasoning is that particular station is only 2-3 years old so the tanks are in good shape, the big boys keep the supply fresh, and by filling up on the car side, I don't slow the big boys down and I can take as long as I want. (within reason)

One of my customers has a TDI jetta and regularly gets mid 50's on his 2 hour round trip commute. I want one...

SwampDonkey · January 11, 2007, 05:25:08 AM

Most every station here has diesel as well. I've been in some areas in Canada where the pumps were all diesel, no gas. ;)

Modat22 · January 11, 2007, 08:22:09 AM

If I could have found a deisel truck that was about the size as a s10 or ranger I would have bought one. Personally I find a truck of any size more useful than a car but even my 4.3l v6 s10 is too expensive to drive to work every day.

I may have to start driving it anyway though, mandy doesn't like letting me drive the prius. She considers it her car :D

GF · January 11, 2007, 05:24:19 PM

Speaking of low sulpher diesel, I was the station this morning filling up with gas, next to me was a diesel pump that has something to do with low sulpher diesel should not be used in 2007 model vehicles or later. Whats up with this?

scsmith42 · January 11, 2007, 07:04:55 PM

All 2007 diesel vehicles require 'ULTRA low sulfer diesel fuel", instead of just "low sulfer diesel fuel".

DanG · January 11, 2007, 08:13:03 PM

Modat, the guy that assailed you was a moron, plain and simple. Whether anyone buys into the "global warming" theory, or not, conservation of our resources is important. Even discounting that factor, the conservation of your personal budget would be reason enough to buy that car. Good on ya! Enjoy!

ScottAR · January 11, 2007, 11:56:32 PM

There's two kinds of diesel at the moment.

Low sulfer diesel 500 parts per million of sulfer.

Ultra low sulfer 15 parts per million of sulfer.

Some of the newer engines have particle "scrubbers" on the exhaust
and the extra amounts of sulfer would stop those up.
(I dunno what the devices are actually called, scrubbers seems as good a
word as any)

To my knowledge the ultra low is pretty much everywhere now; the stickers
are likely old news. My '99 truck doesn't seem to notice any difference...

scsmith42 · January 11, 2007, 11:58:15 PM

RE the Ultra low sulfer diesel, I've heard two different story's regarding it's use in tractor trailers. One story is that the truck stops will still sell low sulfer diesel in the large truck bays; the other story is that all on-road diesel will be ultra low sulfer.

Does anybody know the low down here?

Scott

Furby · January 12, 2007, 12:08:56 AM

All truck stops I've filled up at have switched to the ultra low since the law took effect in October.
Trucking companies are still allowed to use the low sulfer in the older trucks, but there are some heavy requirements as to seperate storage of the two.
I'm not sure for how long they are allowed to continue using the low sulfer.
My take on it was that most fuel stops weren't going to bother trying to sell both.

scsmith42 · January 12, 2007, 08:28:21 AM

Furby - thanks for clarifying this question for me.

Scott

Dan_Shade · January 12, 2007, 11:21:26 AM

My brother works directly with the engine industry concerning deisel particulate emmissions. He's a pretty smart fella, I can't keep up with his talk of all of that stuff....

He does a lot of lab testing to help engine designers meet the EPA standards and provides them feedback.

He has done some interesting research concerning the various sulfur levels and also with Biodeisel. Biodeisel has a higher NOx output, if I remember correctly (going from memory with a dinner table conversation over christmas).

It's unfortanate that some people equate being "sensable" to the wacko's out there on the envirnmental front. We've only got one world, lets start a "conservation" movement to stick it to the "envirnmental" movement.

Cheers to you on the prius, i'd get one too if I could afford another car. I keep thinking motorcycle, but I should be thinking bicycle!

Modat22 · January 12, 2007, 01:34:29 PM

After thinking about it a little, I should say "The Bank got a new prius" but it allows us to drive it for awhile.

second fill up this morning. 8.9 gallons 418 miles. That is better than my 750 honda motor cycle. Its kind of a wierd car to get used too, the air conditioner doesn't effect gas mileage very much but the heater does. The AC has a brushless DC motor powered compressor, the heater still uses circulating engine coolent. SO the engine will run a bit to warm the coolent then shut off for awhile.

slowzuki · January 12, 2007, 01:47:11 PM

I don't know about the cars but most of the Toyota trucks are built in cali, thats why they are different than the rest of the worlds toyota trucks and why there are no 1-ton tacomas like the 1-ton hi-luxs in australia and elsewhere.

SwampDonkey · January 12, 2007, 02:00:32 PM

The new Tundra is a beast though. ;)

10,000 lb towing capacity

3 size engines to choose from, 5.7L i-force V8 is one engine (381 HP, Torque 401lb-ft), 4.0 and 4.7 L available.

Fla._Deadheader · January 12, 2007, 02:36:24 PM

While it's true that BioDiesel has slightly more NOx emissions, it beats the tar out of all the OTHER pollutants from Dino Diesel. NOx emissions are being worked on with Bio Diesel, and soon, it WILL be the best alternative to liquid fuel uses. Straight Veg Oil is absolutely the best (SVO).

Dan_Shade · January 12, 2007, 02:48:10 PM

yep, at least it's a step on the path to renewable resources!

I'd like to see the President challenge us to renewable energy like Kennedy did to go to the moon.

Minnesota_boy · January 12, 2007, 04:18:50 PM

Quote from: Modat22 on January 12, 2007, 01:34:29 PM
Its kind of a wierd car to get used too, the air conditioner doesn't effect gas mileage very much but the heater does. The AC has a brushless DC motor powered compressor, the heater still uses circulating engine coolent. SO the engine will run a bit to warm the coolent then shut off for awhile.

How well would that work when the temperature is -40? How do the batteries hold up then?

Dan_Shade · January 12, 2007, 04:59:04 PM

getting any battery to work at -40 (F), i don't understand that metric crap ;) is a challenge! if it's 40 below here, I'm staying home!

SwampDonkey · January 12, 2007, 06:51:36 PM

Quote from: Dan_Shade on January 12, 2007, 04:59:04 PM
getting any battery to work at -40 (F), i don't understand that metric scrapple ;) is a challenge! if it's 40 below here, I'm staying home!

-40 °F = -40 °C ;D What's to understand? It's #@#$

cold. ;)

Part_Timer · January 12, 2007, 07:34:05 PM

Modat That guy is just mad because he has stock in the oil companies. Next time tell him yep and the wife wears fur.

Modat22 · January 16, 2007, 02:26:18 PM

Quote from: Minnesota_boy on January 12, 2007, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: Modat22 on January 12, 2007, 01:34:29 PM
Its kind of a wierd car to get used too, the air conditioner doesn't effect gas mileage very much but the heater does. The AC has a brushless DC motor powered compressor, the heater still uses circulating engine coolent. SO the engine will run a bit to warm the coolent then shut off for awhile.

How well would that work when the temperature is -40? How do the batteries hold up then?

The batteries have two vent ducts that force cabin air thru the battery stack, they both cool and heat the batteries

I imagine that if its -40 the prius would be a gas only car for the first 30 min or so.