So I've been looking at properties/land in central indiana. One old farm has some decent walnut trees (that I'd never cut as it would seriously reduce the value of the land- they are what make the property attractive). In a recent email from the listing agent- knowing from my recent visit that I have an affinity for nice trees, she noted "...that they have had tree specialists out and there is some valuable timber if someone would be interested in selling trees. Some of the walnuts were quoted at $1500-3000/tree. That is just a note if it matters to a Buyer."
My first reaction to that is "Bull%^&!". These are not grand champion trees by any means. There are tall ones but diameters are average at 16-22 inches I'd say. A couple you might get 20 feet until the first branch. I've never purchased logs, but I've been on the Forestry Forum for awhile. To me that sounds like what you might get out of the sawn lumber and doesn't include the logging, cleanup, hauling, milling, etc.
What is your reaction to this? Perhaps tell me what an example length and diameter Black walnut log of good quality would sell for on the ground(or at the mill). I would think it would be one heck of a lot lower. Thanks.
some walnut can bring big money, plantation style trees grown for timber quality.
However, most of the yard trees I see are not gonna make much money, specially if they have metal in them
some of the woods growing trees I have seen are pretty nice, but even If you could get $1 a bd ft a big log would still go around 1 or 2 hundred
the last walnut I sold off the mill I got 85 cents per for the whole log, measured after sawing
As you say, you might be able to turn a nice walnut tree into $2000 of kiln dried lumber, heck if you made it into furniture it might be worth $4,000.
But that's not what the tree is worth...
So to get a value for a standing tree, work out what the finished product will sell for, then deduct the cost of each stage of processing. Drying, milling, trucking, logging etc. What's left is what the tree is worth. Sometimes it's a negative number.
But that's the number it's worth to YOU. Someone else may have different costs, and different markets, so the tree may be worth more, or less, to them.
Ian
Yes that value does seem to be slightly exaggerated. These valuations could be true if it was deemed a veneer log, but most veneer mills won't touch residential logs. That being said I've paid upwards of .75 cents/bdf for standing walnut from a woodlot. So if your dimensions are correct I would value those trees at no more than $300 a tree, at the high end. I would also take into consideration that I live in an area where walnut is abundant. Good luck on the property hunt.
Usually trees running over twenty inches will [ Veneer ] run ten to twelve dollars a board foot. Twenty foot log good quality pretty easy be three grand. But your right everyone thinks when they have a walnut its worth big bucks its very hard to buy from those folks also.
This video makes me laugh! It is what I see in my mind every time someone asks me how much their tree is worth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgQHWQoatg
The OP stated
QuoteOne old farm has some decent walnut trees
Assumption is apparent that these trees are yard trees. Are they?
Or are they in a woods on the old farm?
Or are you looking at an old farm house with yard?
Let's make the assumption that they are not yard trees. Most of the walnuts are growing along the creek that runs across the property. It is not highly dense with trees, but dense enough that it made some decent walnuts. The creek runs in front of the house with only a few Walnuts in the yard. Most are in the fallow/unmolested area of woods along the creek in each direction to either side of the house site. I should have taken some video. With that said though, I'm sure there are some bullets in some of the trees. The neighbor clearly has two illegal deer stands set up in these woods, and he has one spot where he's got some metal shooting targets set up to shoot from his house into these woods.
If I bought the property, I would not harvest any of these trees. It would ruin the character of the creek. If they harvested any of these, they would devalue the property for any potential buyer.
What you guys have said so far is right in line with what I was thinking - Perhaps a couple hundred at most standing, assuming not veneer grade.
Cutting around a creek here in Maine requires a special cut,set back and can only cut a certain percent and can't fall trees in the water. So even if you had 100 trees along a creek you could not cut them all.
Your right Ray....you have to leave buffer zones.
And I've never knew a realtor agent that would not kinda add a little to make a place sound that much better. But they also maybe going on what thier neighbor cousin's,brother, and FIL said too. ::)
It seems to me most people think their trees are veneer quality. But will find out very few are.
That's what I figure too thecfarm. I seriously doubt a real grader ever looked at their trees. I'm sure it was the neighbor, or an acquaintance etc who is not actually in that business.
This is what an $18,000 black walnut looks like. Just so you know.......... I found it on Craigslist, only about 20 miles from me.
If the trees don't look JUST LIKE THIS ONE, I would question the realtors honesty............ ::)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29506/walnut_18000.jpg)
I'd ask to see the inventory or report from the "tree specialist". They said "some" would fetch that price, not all of them.
I had trees sell for that price 30 years ago. They were red oak and really big. I don't think I'd write it off as being impossible. Top prices I've seen for walnut is $10, but that was in NY. Indiana walnut is supposed to be pretty nice, so it might be more.
The prices are quite possible for perfect veneer grade logs with 18 ' or longer lengths. But would imagine the overall average price for the lot would be much less . Creek / river bottom walnut is the best as a general rule for veneer by the way .
That's a little pricey for that diameter. People think the tree standing is worth the same as finished lumber. They just have no idea what getting a tree "finished" entails.
Brad, I will say this as simply as possible, it is completely possible. Without putting a tape to the tree at dbh, an and an accurate length to the first limb it is all conjecture. However, if these logs were to measure out, within the upper grade scale, and the size was a bit bigger, and I think some may very well be, the butt log alone could easily bring the lowest price you mentioned for the entire tree. Lots have been said and discussed on walnut, but it does not matter until the rubber hits the road, meaning a buyer(actual), and a seller. It is a process that needs careful consideration. david
Oh man does this thread ever strike a nerve ! Neighbor stopped in last June ,my tenth month of unemployment . Says " remember you said you would take down my walnut tree for free if you could have the log " I think a minute and remember telling him that if it was a good log I would take it down for the log .... long story short I fall for it take it down and yup 4+ inchs of sap wood and a bark seem all the way acrost the butt ! I imediatly express my displeasure out loud ! I spent a couple hours climbing and ropeing this thing down sweating my butt off and now I have a junk log . It getts better ! He says well when you mill it I need a slab and some wood to make a couple tables ..... So when I decided to get around to it I milled it allright ! I turned it so the bark seam was vertical and flitched it ! every slab fell in half ! He came up to claim his prize and I proceeded to tell him of the loss I took and taht after refuseing to give me 200$ to cover my sons labor he got an entire tree removal job for nothing ! And I was out allot of $ ! This idiot didn't even acknowledge what I was saying ! So I point to the pile and say the 1 on top is all yours ! Man was he *pithed ! This guy hounded me all summer like I owed him something yet knowing my situation and expecting me to provide my labor and skills for free ! I went way farther than I should have but I try and be honest and I don't mind being generous but this jerk kept adding more and more demands to the deal . Needless to say we don't speak anymore and I'm fine with that ! I really showed restraint when inside I just wanted to explode ! The guy is a user ! Her has that rep ! I learned a tuff lesson and will never make that mistake again ! So in closeing ...."Yard Walnuts " are a bad word ! Ask me to take it down and I will be happy to give you a price !
Yard trees and grove trees are two different animals, as far as yard trees, skully is dead on. If in fact they are grove trees, the equation changes dramatically. Without seeing the layout, and putting a tape to them, it is all conjecture. Lots of room for chatter, a tape and a visual is all that's left, with the exception of a buyer.
One of my customers just made a sizeable timber sale last year. He sold 31 trees and netted a little over $52K. Most were walnuts but 5 or 6 were very large Bur oaks. I think the oaks were prime sawlogs and the rest were veneer logs. Most of the walnuts were 30+"dbh. they only harvested the bottom 16' and he had me saw all the remaining tops, which were mostly beautiful logs. The highest priced log was a large walnut that went for $3700. These were all forest grown. average sawlogs on the other hand, either wind up in the tub grinder, pallet mill or my log yard for little or no money (although Meister always has buyers sniffing around here and in western Iowa).
It is very possible that some of those trees may fall into the $ range that you mention, esp since they have relaxed a few of the grading rules for veneer logs in recent years.
You never know till you put a chainsaw on the butt end of the log...then it starts.
You can count on a ReelTor to put the hype to any possible feature of a property for sale.
Thanks everyone. I've definitely learned some new things on this board and this thread. This was a serious conversation and I thank everyone for keeping it that way on what can sometimes be a touchy subject.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/4A84BB55-A95D-4800-9963-4D3DF01F41EC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1602290525)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/304B8FA3-1D2D-44C4-83A8-9357AA0D9588.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1602290564)
I think they are. First ones dead and on the list to come out and the other one works good for a 19ft ladder stand 😂
They look a lot better on my sawmill! Ate this one for breakfast.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/IMG_3495.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1602297566)
I scaled it 11' long and 23" but it measured 34" across the butt and 40" at the crotch. Logger payed $200 for the tree but he had to work to get it.
More coming in tomorrow from way up in Missouri!
The word that sticks out in my mind that the realtor said is "some". A realtor's job is similar to a newscasters job, speak the truth in the most compelling way possible. (It's not small, it's "cozy" ;)) There may be one or two trees that do hit that high dollar mark on the property, then that would be "some". The rest are probably much more like you expect. ;)
We've not personally harvested walnut off of our land, but we've got quite a bit. As such I pay attention to logging reports and such. It's pretty common when a logger breaks things down that there are a few trees on a given property that make the bulk of the money in Walnut. The saw logs are still good money, but not like the few that make veneer.
Or she could have just asked her tree trimmer buddy, who obviously knows this stuff. :D
Do you know Turner logging. A Father and Son Workin boys in Southern MO. They buy and log a lot of walnut. He's always posting on
Utube. Talked to him a couple times. Pretty nice guy. A couple points he talked about. He had to cut a bunch of really nice big walnut trees and one tree in particular cost him several thousand dollars because he had to cut the job earlier when it was warmer. And he's said and shown on his videos if theses trees could have been harvested several years earlier because some big old Walnuts start there down hill slide and it really affects the quality. Even though by looking at the bark on ways it grew or traveled etc. when it's opened up could be a different story. Ive got several very large walnuts that need to be harvested. There just so old and big and been on the decline. Don't really want to harvest them but it's probably there time. I'm not to concerned on quality because most are going to be slabbed and the more defects the better
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/IMG_0205.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517407087)
you want your walnut to come from stands like this, so they look like this
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/IMG-1130.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1549989131)
I need a bib. :D
Quote from: nativewolf on October 10, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/IMG_0205.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517407087)
you want your walnut to come from stands like this, so they look like this
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/IMG-1130.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1549989131)
😂 That's pretty much what looks like and dominates my creek bottom