Opinions on chains

[Dieselsteve]

Hi there I have a stihl ms 440 magnum with a 25 inch bar im currently running stihl chains I was wondering what opinions yall have on different chains? which ones are "the best"?

[sawguy21]

Scroll through the forum, you will find no shortage of opinions on chain. ;D

[luvmexfood]

In my opinion it is hard to beat the woodland pro chains from Bailey's for the money. I pay just a little over half what a Stihl chain runs around here. Maybe a dollar more. Can eat a lot of taco's for the savings in price. Merry Christmas.

[John R]

I've gotten the best service with Stihl chains.

[sharkey]

I prefer the Oregon '72' series a/k/a Super 70.     

[ladylake]

I don't pay attention, just use what's on the saw.   Steve

[SawTroll]

I prefer the Oregon '72' series a/k/a Super 70.     

Yes, Oregon LP or LPX - but I don't mind LGX or Stihl RS/RSC either in 3/8".

[Al_Smith]

 Unlike some I don't have the numbers commited to memory .Round filed chisel.Stihl is harder Oregon is faster .Woodland pro is cheaper .

[motard]

If'n you hand file go with Oregon,
Stihl is hard as they get, stock up on files
Woodland pro is in between, get it on sale, best bang for the buck!

[Al_Smith]

I just want to point out unless they've changed the geometry of it file woodland pro straight across .It doesn't respond like Oregon 72 does with a 10 degrees compound angle .

[jwilly3879]

Whatever is on the saw, file it before it is completely dull. Usually run Oregon or Carlton LP style (we sell both). It doesn't seem to make much difference, bucking on the landing I usually wind up with some dirt, now frozen dirt and it will kill any chain. Looking forward to some nice clean wood, with some snow it's getting better.

[thecfarm]

I have run Oregon for years. That is what my dealer carries. I have not tried anything else. Who knows I might like something better. But that is what the dealer carries so that is what I use.

[shootingarts]

Was running the factory stuff on the Makita when I got it, even fresh sharpened it was s-l-o-w. Seems like it was Vanguard 92 or something like that, marked Dolmar.

Swapped to full comp round ground chisel Stihl chain, the saw woke up and cut a good bit of moderately clean wood fast and without significant dulling. Didn't cut rusty wire hidden near a fence row well at all! This will surprise absolutely nobody that knows chain, it takes a long time to file rocked or wired chisel chain back to life. A lot more teeth on a full comp loop for a 20" bar than a three tooth to the foot loop on a box store sixteen inch saw too!

I have a Granberg file-n-joint or three now so I am going to go back and try to find some life in the factory chain for the fencerow cutting. Going to leave my new Stihl RSC in the box until I need it too. While the Stihl is pricey my dealer has a buy one loop full price get one half price deal going on right now which brings the price down to twenty a loop for my twenty inch bar. Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick and if Sandy Claws is good to me I may buy a couple more loops, thinking about a 28" bar and full skip chisel chain.

Once I ran chisel in some pretty big cuts it would be very hard to go back to anything else for felling and bucking. Plan to square file the full skip stuff, getting a little faster and easier to damage all the time. I'll run the "junk" chain near fencerows for awhile now though!

Hu

[motard]

I just want to point out unless they've changed the geometry of it file woodland pro straight across .It doesn't respond like Oregon 72 does with a 10 degrees compound angle .

WP is pretty fast the way I file it.

I just freehand so there is little repeatability.

Usually use a bit of an up swipe (from inside out) and have a pretty pronounced hook.

[Al_Smith]

They might have changed the stuff by now .I haven't bought any for years except a long loop for an 084 Stihl with a 42" bar .It hasn't had enough run time to even refile it so I don't know .

Well I'll tell you how long it's been .20" loops,72 driver were on sale for around 10 bucks .I refiled it like I do Oregon and it didn't do so well .It was only after good ole "Crofter " ( TW's dad )showed me the error of my ways could I get it to cut right .

I kind of miss intermingling with those two  but we run in different circles .

[mad murdock]

I'll second the notion, stihl chain is really hard on files, oregon much easier on files. I think woodland pro is made by Blount industries (they own oregon,Carlton , Windsor and who knows what else), made to Bailey's specifications. I think it is the same as Carlton chain. All good, if I was I dirty wood all the time, I would probably go for stihl chain, and a grinder for sharpening. Prolly get more mileage in dirty wood. Felling and bucking, it is hard to beat Oregon and WP. Especially if you are a ways in the woods and are relying on the file to keep things tuned up.

[beenthere]

stihl chain is really hard on files

One good reason that I like the Stihl chain. I figure it stays sharper longer if it is harder to file.

And another thing, never have thought it was hard to hand file... been doing it for almost 40 years on Stihl chain. Just get good files and toss when they start to go dull. ;)

[shootingarts]

stihl chain is really hard on files

One good reason that I like the Stihl chain. I figure it stays sharper longer if it is harder to file.

And another thing, never have thought it was hard to hand file... been doing it for almost 40 years on Stihl chain. Just get good files and toss when they start to go dull. ;)

I'm using Pferd files bought by the dozen for just over a dollar apiece and like you I'm not finding Stihl hard to sharpen other than the piece I tried to cut wire with. Even it cuts well, just a lot to cut.

Hu

[H 2 H]

If your in clean wood try Stihl RSLHK

[SawTroll]

If your in clean wood try Stihl RSLHK

It obviously depends on many factors how well that works... ;)

[H 2 H]

If your in clean wood try Stihl RSLHK

It obviously depends on many factors how well that works... ;)

Dag atleast I went out and tired several brands and type of chains on three different classes of chain saws 40 cc; 50 cc and 70 cc before post something about it; im a hands on type of guy not one to read stuff on the interweb and believe everything posted on it    8)

[shootingarts]

If your in clean wood try Stihl RSLHK

That's a chain I'm strongly considering, stretching the bar to 28" on my makita 6401. If 64cc's doesn't pull it then I have reason to up the cc's to 79 or 84.

Hu

[ehp]

I run oregon LGX chain, I donot like LPX chain as I bore cut every tree so the LGX chain works alot better

[JohnG28]

If your in clean wood try Stihl RSLHK

That's a chain I'm strongly considering, stretching the bar to 28" on my makita 6401. If 64cc's doesn't pull it then I have reason to up the cc's to 79 or 84.

Hu

Save you some time, up it to 79cc before going with a 28" bar.

[Maine logger88]

I run Oregon LGX always worked good for me

[shootingarts]

If your in clean wood try Stihl RSLHK

That's a chain I'm strongly considering, stretching the bar to 28" on my makita 6401. If 64cc's doesn't pull it then I have reason to up the cc's to 79 or 84.

Hu

Save you some time, up it to 79cc before going with a 28" bar.

I strongly suspect that is excellent advice!

Hu

[Ianab]

If you put a 28" on a 6401 I'd suggest a skip chain. May not cut quite as fast, but it should pull it OK without bogging down. and that's the main thing. 1/2 the cutters working properly is better than a full comp chain running out of power.

I have a 28" on my 7900  and it cuts fine with standard full comp chain. But if I wanted a longer bar, I'd switch to a skip or semi-skip type.

Ian

[shootingarts]

If you put a 28" on a 6401 I'd suggest a skip chain. May not cut quite as fast, but it should pull it OK without bogging down. and that's the main thing. 1/2 the cutters working properly is better than a full comp chain running out of power.

I have a 28" on my 7900  and it cuts fine with standard full comp chain. But if I wanted a longer bar, I'd switch to a skip or semi-skip type.

Ian

I haven't checked how many cutting teeth are on semi-skip and full skip. I figured I might get away with the 28" bar if I keep the cutters the same as the 20" bar or a few less. On the other hand I do want to BB that 6401 so I don't need much excuse.

Running Stihl RSC round filed now. I put the original factory chain on the saw and tested a little before trying to reconfigure things a bit a couple days ago. Forgot how terrible that chain was! Had to do so much cutting on the chain that I suspect the chain will have a lot of vibration now but I'll give it a try as a fencerow chain. Probably be glad when I ruin it!

Hu

[bullet20]

whats the difference in the lpx and the lgx Oregon? I normally run stihl, we have some lgx on spool and was thinking of trying it

[SawTroll]

I run oregon LGX chain, I donot like LPX chain as I bore cut every tree so the LGX chain works alot better

Well, I find the large ramped rakers of the LGX and RS/RSC is more in the way when bore cutting than the small rakers and ramps on the LP/LPX are - but it isn't a really big deal.
I happily use all those chain designs, but get the LP/LPX when I can.

[SawTroll]

That's a chain I'm strongly considering, stretching the bar to 28" on my makita 6401. If 64cc's doesn't pull it then I have reason to up the cc's to 79 or 84.

Hu

What a saw "will pull" depends on your expectations and several other factors - there isn't any carved in stone answers.  ;)

[SawTroll]

Dag atleast I went out and tired several brands and type of chains on three different classes of chain saws 40 cc; 50 cc and 70 cc before post something about it; im a hands on type of guy not one to read stuff on the interweb and believe everything posted on it    8)

I have no problem with you liking that chain for your own use, but generally recommending it means that you have to make a lot of assumptions about other peoples cutting conditions, and their ability to keep it sharp. 

Skip and square ground/filed isn't really user friendly. ;)

[HolmenTree]

Timed with a stop watch the LP/LPX is slower cutting then a equal sharpened LG/LGX.
The LP's large drive link ramps makes the chain heavier plus restricts chip clearance and chip flow in the kerf.

[H 2 H]

Dag atleast I went out and tired several brands and type of chains on three different classes of chain saws 40 cc; 50 cc and 70 cc before post something about it; im a hands on type of guy not one to read stuff on the interweb and believe everything posted on it    8)

I have no problem with you liking that chain for your own use, but generally recommending it means that you have to make a lot of assumptions about other peoples cutting conditions, and their ability to keep it sharp. 

Skip and square ground/filed isn't really user friendly. ;)

Atleast I go out and try different things Dag

And boy you better read 99% of your post about your assumptions about stuff you never used just seen pictures on the interweb  ;D

How else do you learn other than trying different things ?

Like learning how to sharpen square chains ?

Heck I never had a power sharpener till a few weeks ago and im learning how to use it I've been using files for a long time 

[SawTroll]

Timed with a stop watch the LP/LPX is slower cutting then a equal sharpened LG/LGX.
The LP's large drive link ramps makes the chain heavier plus restricts chip clearance and chip flow in the kerf.

That will happen at some point, as the bars get longer - but not with 16 - 20" bars.

[SawTroll]

Atleast I go out and try different things Dag

What I have a problem with, is that (at the same time as you critisise me for not trying all options), you are so dogmatic about one specific chain model (that only is made in one pitch), on more or less any saw. That simply doesn't add up, so your testing has to be flawed in some way.

Also, your model of choise is one that obviously will need very frequent sharpening, considering it is both square chisel and skip - hardly suitable as a general use work chain, but maybe for cookie cutting.

[Huskstihl]

For me it's JGX on a 25.  It is not user unfriendly, cuts great, and is easy to put a razor edge on

[HolmenTree]

Timed with a stop watch the LP/LPX is slower cutting then a equal sharpened LG/LGX.
The LP's large drive link ramps makes the chain heavier plus restricts chip clearance and chip flow in the kerf.

That will happen at some point, as the bars get longer - but not with 16 - 20" bars.

No no Niko, a stop watch never lies.
Here is a photo from the 1970s of my brother Dennis in a competition cutting a 12"X12" with a Jonsered 80 with 16" b/c. [Notice the 2" spaced lines, cut a line and your disqualified....speed and skill.]

Dennis along with another brother Cliff and I ground the Oregon LP links off  our chains, just that mod could win a race against a LP with the links retained we found.
It wasn't until 1982 when the LG was introduced with the ramp link on the depth gauges and that was the chain us loggers wanted for production cutting.


    

[H 2 H]

Atleast I go out and try different things Dag

What I have a problem with, is that (at the same time as you critisise me for not trying all options), you are so dogmatic about one specific chain model (that only is made in one pitch), on more or less any saw. That simply doesn't add up, so your testing has to be flawed in some way.

Also, your model of choise is one that obviously will need very frequent sharpening, considering it is both square chisel and skip - hardly suitable as a general use work chain, but maybe for cookie cutting.

Like I said before Dag

"And boy you better read 99% of your post about your assumptions about stuff you never used just seen pictures on the interweb"

And on another note Dag you better read what I wrote on the first page of this thread

"If your in clean wood try Stihl RSLHK"

NOTE FROM ADMIN: COPYRIGHT IMAGE REMOVED FROM THE FORUM

[ehp]

Sawtroll you better go back and read what you wrote cause your way off , LPX is no good compared to LGX for boring period and it doesnot matter the bar length , ask anyone that cuts either in the bush or on the landing , the big bumper on LGX does not touch any where near as much as the big bump on the driver in LPX

[Grandedog]

Timed with a stop watch the LP/LPX is slower cutting then a equal sharpened LG/LGX.
The LP's large drive link ramps makes the chain heavier plus restricts chip clearance and chip flow in the kerf.

That will happen at some point, as the bars get longer - but not with 16 - 20" bars.

No no Niko, a stop watch never lies.
Here is a photo from the 1970s of my brother Dennis in a competition cutting a 12"X12" with a Jonsered 80 with 16" b/c. [Notice the 2" spaced lines, cut a line and your disqualified....speed and skill.]

Dennis along with another brother Cliff and I ground the Oregon LP links off  our chains, just that mod could win a race against a LP with the links retained we found.
It wasn't until 1982 when the LG was introduced with the ramp link on the depth gauges and that was the chain us loggers wanted for production cutting.


    

Howdy,
   We used to take the LP chain apart, take the teeth and reassemble it on the LG frame just looking for a little time.
Regards
Gregg

[HolmenTree]

Gregg, my brothers and I went one step further....we put LP cutters on the little 76LG chassis  ;D

[ehp]

99.9% of all 3/8's race chain is made out of LG or LGX and you grind what you want done to the chain on a surface grinder , the bumper on say a 60 driver  LG chain only takes minutes to get rid of , besides narrowing the kerf of the chain you can change all the outside angles on the chain plus the angle of the top of the tooth on how it feeds into the wood with the surface grinder then file it , it takes alot of time to do but every little bit helps when everything is added up

[Al_Smith]

  Lawdy don't get em going on race chains .It will get as clouded as the oil wars .Somebody will get the bright idea to spend 8 hours filing a racer only to use it on firewood . ;D

[ehp]

thats almost as bad as some of those high tooth .404 chains I some how file that has close to 40 hours in them with all the surface grinding done to them

[Al_Smith]

You can certainly spend a lot of time on them to cut a half a second off a 4-5  second run---then hit a knot

[ehp]

I make very few chains but I still file for a couple guys on the Stihl Series , what I like is seeing how fast I can get them to cut the 19 inch or 20 inch wood , On 20 inch we are down now to 1.0's per cookie , I honestly did not think we could get .404 to ever compete with 1/2 inch in the bigger wood but we are there , Can we go faster , I think so and am doing a few new things to these chains I got here for next year but the things I'm doing now are pretty much off the wall but until I try it I just never know if that would work , in my small mind it will work but the block will tell the story , Its pretty easy to make high tooth cut 16 inch and under but for it to cut 20 inch it takes alot more work

[John Mc]

I bore cut with both the LGX and LPX.  There probably is a difference, but if there is, I don't notice it... but then I'm not cutting cookies in a competition either.

For the person asking what the difference is, here's a picture of the LGX:


 


And here's one of the LPX:


 

Note the difference in the rakers and the extra "bumper" piece right next to the raker on the LPX chain.  My understanding is that the shape of raker itself on the LPX is actually a bit more aggressive than the LGX, but that aggressive shape is offset by the bumper link blocking some of that aggressive shape. 

Some have argued that the extra bumper partially swings out of the way when bore cutting on an LPX, so that it does not lose anything in bore cutting over the LGX. I couldn't say whther that's actually true or not, but I thought I recalled some Oregon literature making such a claim (can't find it now).  For me, I buy what I can get the best deal on between the two.

[ehp]

Oregon that makes the chain is a hour from me and I have been threw the factory lots of times and know the tech guys by first name , when you bore cut its with the tip so your boring on the round end of the bar and the bumper on the LPX rolls a head of the racker on the tooth , Yes the LPX cuts smoother on a bore but its not as fast period but thats just me and I'm a guy that will not run a brandnew chain out of the box , it has to be filed before I will cut with it

[John Mc]

Ed - I usually file my chains right out of the box as well.  It's surprising how much of a difference that can make.  I'm particularly not impressed with the extra hook that seems to be on Oregon chains in recent years. It does make the chain grab and self-feed well (probably part fo what they're getting at with the "sharp right out of the box" bit they're pushing). But that hook can make it too "grabby" when bore cutting for my taste, and it doesn't hold up well... it doesn't take much to ding up or wear down that thin pointy hook either.

I'm sure you're right about LGX bore cutting faster than LPX. I don't compete, and I've not done anything like a timed comparison. I don't know that I would go so far as to say "LPX is no good compared to LGX for boring period".  LPX does bore cut, and as you noted it does so pretty smoothly.

[HolmenTree]

Well said John, I agree with everything you just said. But the only bore cutting competition I've seen was  bore cutting saw racing in Australia and NZ. I've seen it done in some competitions in the eastern US years back.
But what I was previously referring to was "crosscutting" bucking saw racing. I do bore cut trees sometimes with my tree service operation but not in competition.
The LP safety link ramp is a handicap in efficient cutting action versus the LG's clear gullet to center of the chain design for better chip clearance and flow, that's the "speed factor" in crosscutting competition.

I field tested the LG chain along with the radial port rim sprockets and PowerMatch bars for the Portland, Oregon and Guelph, Ontario plants. Gary Walrath was field engineer in charge. At the time when I ran saws 8 hours a day I quickly replaced the LP chains with the better cutting LG.

Here's a Oregon ad from 1982 when they introduced the 70 series LG saw chain, read how they compare the differences between the LP and LG .  Also notice the .030 setting stamped on the depth gauges of these early chains, then changed to .025  6 months after introduction.


  

  

[John Mc]

HolmenTree (sorry, I've forgotten your real name), what you are saying here and back in reply #32 makes sense.  As I think someone pointed out earlier in this thread, might the better chip flow and clearance make more of a difference when cutting with longer bars in bigger wood? (Though I assume there would be some difference in smaller wood as well.)

[ehp]

Oregon changed their teeth  a couple years ago mainly to compete with the stihl chain so they made more hook and changed how they harden the tooth so now the tooth looks abit different than what they were 10 years ago , when they brought the first bunch of LGX/LPX out for testing in the winter time I would break 6 or more chains a day falling in the bush but they made some changes and now I hardly ever break a chain . I do go threw alot of bars thou and 99% of the time its the tips I wear out , Like I said I bore cut every tree and every top , mainly cause I use to cut where the ground is more rock than ant thing else so I got use to it , you touch the ground your filing bad as its rocked right out . Yes my LPX chain is a bit rough when you first start boring as I lower the rackers alot more than factory setting to cut this frozen wood that has a ton of frozen moisture in it but I can cut red/white oak just like someone else cuts popular

[Al_Smith]

Like I said before I don't have the numbers committed to memory .Now I kind of thought though when I ordered a loop of .325 round chisel from Baileys for a little 024 and after I got it and saw the ramped rakers  that I couldn't plunge cut with it .Hey no problem at all .Just walk that tip in and shove it straight through .

Now it probabley isn't a fast as unramped but if I need to plunge I'm not in a race any way .

[ehp]

they make different types of ramps Al, some of the .325 oregon chain I donot think would hardly cut you never alone any wood  ;D, some of that stuff sucks bad , now what I have seen some guys do is take the LPX and with a bench grinder  they would grind part of the lump off , but if your that bad you could just grind the lump off the LGX chain as well and that would be faster and easier to do

[HolmenTree]

As Ed talked earlier about the .404 high tooth chain used on competition hotsaws pushing over 40 h.p.
I have to add to the readers here about the history of the chain.
Not that long ago Stihl manufactured a modified .404 chisel sawchain with a extra high cutter to be used in their Stihl Timbersport competitions. Over the decades 1/2" chisel chain was the chain with the best chip clearance for the big modified saws but since the chain was stopped production about 40 years ago it is pretty well now extinct.

Here I have 2 photos of my 3/8" high tooth chain modification. For about the past 30 years or so competitors in the know who used this modification they used it to their advantage.
What we did was put 70 series LP cutters on the low profile 76LG chassis. The 76-77 LG chisel chain like the 1/2" chisel is also now extinct today.
Top chain is a 73 LP, middle and bottom chain is the Oregon 76LG with a 73LP cutter on it.