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Building our Dream Home a.k.a. Delusions of Retirement

Started by EOTE, December 10, 2019, 08:41:26 PM

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Larry

You might consider designing the closet in the master bedroom as a tornado shelter.  FEMA has a excellent free plan book that gives details.  When I built my shelter, I got cost sharing from the state which kept my out of pocket close to zero.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Magicman

Yup, a 12d is supposed to be 3¼" and a 16d is supposed to be 3½".  The 1/8" sharpened tip counts toward the length but has no holding power.  A 20d is 4" long but will not fit into most nailguns. 

My thoughts are that commonly found and readily available fasteners should be a valid concern before sawing lumber and starting a build.  This comes up fairly often before I begin sawing a framing lumber job. While sawing well over a million bf of framing lumber I can recall only two customers that insisted upon full 2" and one of these was matching the existing framing lumber while remodeling an older home.  The other told me that if anyone wanted a full 2" to have them call him before sawing.  :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

EOTE

Hi all, 
I happened to catch this before I headed out to work on my sawmill house.  I actually measured the 2"x 6"s after Magicman's note...they come in at 1-3/4" x 5-3/4" when dry.  I made a decision early on about what length to cut to because I can haul logs with my grapple that are up to 12' long and 24" in diameter.  (I have to jockey them through the trees on some of my logging roads).  Anything larger and I have to skid them behind the 12 Mexicans.  So all my logs were cut to 12' 4" for initial handling.  After the lumber that has been cut from them is dried, we size them to 12' 0" and grade them for their use.



 

Here is some of the raw lumber drying.



 

With the exception of the pallet of cedar, this is some of the lumber after it has been sized and graded.

I also determined early on to cut all my lumber to 12' lengths because my original cut list had about 20 different lengths and we all know that not all trees that have grown end up making good lumber, especially when you are approaching 16' to 20' lengths.  When the house was designed, this was kept in mind so that everything can be made from 12' lengths with few exceptions and those I will cut special for their intended use.

When it comes to construction technology, I also determined early on based on my experience and shared experiences from my contractor friends that I would prefabricate the home in 12' +/- sections.  The major reason for this decision was the inherent waste that we saw from carpenters using a part of a board and throwing the rest into the scrap pile.  Every contractor I have talked to has had this problem.  For the stud framing, although it is more expensive and time consuming (hey I'm retired I have all the time in the world ;D), I chose to screw the framing together and nail the shiplap onto the frames.  The screws will provide more holding power than normal ring shank 16d nails used in a nail gun.  Framing design has taken into account the modular design so when panels are set in place they are screwed together as well.  The net result is stronger walls than typical "build on the pad" walls.

To accomodate building the walls in sections and the trusses, I designed a setup and construction table I call my "big ass table".  It is 4 - 4' x 12' tables that can be leveled and bound to each other to provide a consistent working surface.  It can be configured in several different ways such as 12' x 12', 12' x 16', 4' x 24', or 8' x 24'.  See the photos below. 



 

This is two of the tables configured for building the 24' wide trusses for my sawmill house.




 
Here are 2 of the tables after building and finishing



 

These hold the tables latched together when using multiple tables.







This is the simple leveling mechanism I used to level the tables because I am using them on a sloped gravel surface under my barn awning.  It gives me up to 3" of leveling ability from end to end.

Hopefully this clarifies some of the details (and probably raises more questions.)

I will try and address all the comments as time warrants, and I really thank all of you for your thoughtful input.
EOTE (End of the Earth - i.e. last place on the road in the middle of nowhere)  Retired.  Old guys rule!
Buzz Lightsaw, 12 Mexicans, and lots of Guy Toys

Raider Bill

You could do what I did and use common dimension lumber for the frame work but screw everything together with deck screws instead of nailing, then put simpsons on every joint.
Overkill, yep, expensive, check, extra and time consuming sure was but if Tennessee ever gets hit with a hurricane I'm good, maybe.

I also agree with the extra width deck.

One thing about your drawings I noticed it that's a long haul from the wood stove to master suite. How are you going to move the warm air?
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Raider Bill

I guess our posts about screwing everything crossed each other in cyberspace.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

EOTE

Quote from: Raider Bill on December 12, 2019, 10:18:15 AMOne thing about your drawings I noticed it that's a long haul from the wood stove to master suite. How are you going to move the warm air?


Actually the house will have dual HVAC systems on the second floor, one for the bedrooms, master bathroom, office and 2nd floor space, and one for the general open area of the sunroom, kitchen, living room and utility room.  The wood burning stove is more for enjoyment than for heating the house as it would definitely create challenges with moving the air to the whole house.

One thing I am a big fan of is building POC's (proofs of concept) when it comes to any ideas I have in mind for the house.  I grew up in Montana with wood burning stoves as the main source of heat but my wife is a city girl and likes the conveniences of civilization, thus the HVAC systems and the "decorative" wood stove. 

This is the "POC" of the wood burning stove that I built in the barn for my wife to see and understand the capabilities.  The stove will heat the 2400 square foot barn but it still takes a lot of wood.  We both decided that while nice, it won't be the heat provider, it will be for sitting in front of a nice warm fire on a cold night.  (Quite honestly, I have become accustomed to HVAC systems as well and like their conveniences).  The wall behind it is a POC of stone veneer we are considering for the courtyard walls.



 
EOTE (End of the Earth - i.e. last place on the road in the middle of nowhere)  Retired.  Old guys rule!
Buzz Lightsaw, 12 Mexicans, and lots of Guy Toys

pineywoods

Some more observations on planning for abnormal situations.. Carpet is a no-no. I learned the hard way that spills and dropped objects (think broken hen eggs) will happen more frequently as we get older. I ripped out ALL the carpet and replaced with ceramic tile and vinyl planks. Almost zero maintenance. We have one of them so-called robot vacuum cleaners that does an acceptable job on stuff that the wife's wheel chair tracks in from outside. X2 on the pocket doors. Opening a conventional door from a wheelchair is a pain. drive up to the door, open until door hits chair..back up, open door further,,,repeat up to 3 times..Ramps...Just say no if possible..otherwise keep them small as possible. Going down a ramp is a snap, up requires the arms of a weight lifter unless you have a slave to push..
On the subject of wheel chairs.. we have 20 years of experience on every kind of mobility device known to man. Glad to share..
Heating...We have a wood stove with propane furnace backup. Stove sits on a ceramic tile floor and is about a foot from an internal brick wall.  Think thermal mass. A ceiling fan overhead blowing downward  Keeps things toasty long after the fire has burned out..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

thecfarm

pineywood is right on with the carpets and ceiling fans. Summer time I can bring that cool air into the house and listen to the wife about how cold it is. :o 
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Raider Bill

I took carpet out of everything I own including the rentals. Tile everywhere. Hard to hurt it.
In my house small area/throw rugs for accent that I can drag outside and hit with the hose when needing a cleaning.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Darrel

As a rehab nurse, I learned that carpet & rugs are a trip hazard. As a senior citizen, my wife and I are learning it first hand. We have removed all carpet from our abode and when the new house is built, it will have wood floors. 
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Raider Bill

Quote from: Darrel on December 12, 2019, 12:45:57 PM
As a rehab nurse, I learned that carpet & rugs are a trip hazard. As a senior citizen, my wife and I are learning it first hand. We have removed all carpet from our abode and when the new house is built, it will have wood floors.
And all of a sudden we are senior citizens. When did that happen then I do something stupid while acting like I'm in my 20's or 30's and remember.
wheeliechair
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

EOTE

Quote from: Raider Bill on December 12, 2019, 01:42:46 PMAnd all of a sudden we are senior citizens. When did that happen then I do something stupid while acting like I'm in my 20's or 30's and remember.


I resemble that!
EOTE (End of the Earth - i.e. last place on the road in the middle of nowhere)  Retired.  Old guys rule!
Buzz Lightsaw, 12 Mexicans, and lots of Guy Toys

Don P

Just more stuff to think about or you maybe already have.

We did mudsill and joists today on a small house, yellow poplar and red oak 11-1/4" x 1-1/2", sawed, dried, planed and ripped to final nominal dimension. We're using nailguns, watch the nail guage as well, diameter, depth and density of the wood are the keys there. Screws for framing are  a no-no unless they are structural screws, look for an "ESR" number on the box otherwise they are likely too brittle for structural use. We always want ductile failures (squeal, distort) rather than brittle (snap, whump). For proof of concept drive a nail and a screw in halfway and whack them back and forth with a hammer, most screws snap, no good. Many screws are good in withdrawal but worthless in shear.



The black screw there is structural, that took considerable force to do that. The other screws are clearly inferior, nevertheless look at that ductile nail.

When this round of weather passes I have the 1x6 and 8" floor sheathing on my trailer on site for that and for the walls that will be applied diagonally to triangularize the frame. Many people have forgotten that necessity to properly brace the framing. The roof will be skip sheathed perpendicular to the rafters, the metal forms a diaphragm of bracing if well screwed, those screws are rated for that thanks to the post frame folks.

This has some good design stuff to review;
https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/remodel.pdf
In kitchen and bath I usually ring the walls with let in 2x6 or 8 at grab rail height in the framing rather than just blocking nailed between studs, big boy bars :D.

I was in my 20's when we built this peter pan house, I'll never grow old. DanG something happened along the way :D. I need to put a master and full bath downstairs.

tule peak timber

Man I don't know what you did to the black Timber-loc in the middle of the photo ---I've never busted one, Yikes !
   We are debating build our third "forever home" I'm running out of gas...... :o
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Don P

Wha, I was just pulling up a leaning 2 story house with it in a 90 :D
But yeah, normal structural steel  like for I beams and such is 36 or 50,000 lb tensile, those things are 90ksi steel.

Magicman

Just as information I did some searching and found an air nailer that will shoot 4" nails:

Stanley-Bostitch N100C Nailer

There are probably others but this is what I found.  I don't know the cost but I think that it is expensive.  ::)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Don P

One thing to think about, the cost of a nailer doesn't mean all that much. 10 boxes of nails is about the cost of a nailer. The availability and cost of the nails is what really matters. Mail ordering nails is not a good option when you run out at 4pm and have work to do tomorrow.

Raider Bill

Quote from: Don P on December 12, 2019, 07:51:16 PM
Just more stuff to think about or you maybe already have.

We did mudsill and joists today on a small house, yellow poplar and red oak 11-1/4" x 1-1/2", sawed, dried, planed and ripped to final nominal dimension. We're using nailguns, watch the nail guage as well, diameter, depth and density of the wood are the keys there. Screws for framing are  a no-no unless they are structural screws, look for an "ESR" number on the box otherwise they are likely too brittle for structural use. We always want ductile failures (squeal, distort) rather than brittle (snap, whump). For proof of concept drive a nail and a screw in halfway and whack them back and forth with a hammer, most screws snap, no good. Many screws are good in withdrawal but worthless in shear.



The black screw there is structural, that took considerable force to do that. The other screws are clearly inferior, nevertheless look at that ductile nail.

When this round of weather passes I have the 1x6 and 8" floor sheathing on my trailer on site for that and for the walls that will be applied diagonally to triangularize the frame. Many people have forgotten that necessity to properly brace the framing. The roof will be skip sheathed perpendicular to the rafters, the metal forms a diaphragm of bracing if well screwed, those screws are rated for that thanks to the post frame folks.

This has some good design stuff to review;
https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/remodel.pdf
In kitchen and bath I usually ring the walls with let in 2x6 or 8 at grab rail height in the framing rather than just blocking nailed between studs, big boy bars :D.

I was in my 20's when we built this peter pan house, I'll never grow old. DanG something happened along the way :D. I need to put a master and full bath downstairs.
And there I was thinking I did good using screws :-\
At least I used those stubby thumb mashing Simpson nails in all the brackets smiley_smash smiley_crying 
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Don P

 :D Ruh roh, in the interest of educating the reader can I keep busting your groove. When you're using a hanger or one of those engineered connections, get on their website or look it up in the catalog and see what nails it calls for. Rarely is that the right nail, usually it is a derated connection to be used when you can't use the preferred length nail for some reason. A lot of this is better/best but it is always good to know where you are in that range and go for best if you can. For instance where you used them "best" was likely a 10dx3" nail which is also cheaper, and long enough to not bust your thumbs. I've seen roofing nails and deck screws used in those connectors, even aluminum nails. Outside of decay most residential failures are connection failures rather than the lumber itself.

Crusarius

What still kills me about those simpson brackets. Why? When we built my parents house everything was toenailed where it needed to be. The house is still standing proud today. It is just funny that something that worked for so long, and so well, is now frowned upon.

Oh yea, and before nail guns 2x4's got 2 nails each end and 2x6 got 2 or 3 depending on the connection. With nail guns that number seems to have doubled or even tripled. I have seen builders use 6 or 7 nails bridging a gap when they cut a 2x a half inch to short instead of just cutting another 2x.

Raider Bill

Oh Don, DanG! it.... Now I'm going to be looking up every time the wind blows. Thought I was safe before.

In truth after mashing my thumbs about 50 times I got Simpson brand screws :D :D

Crusiarus,

I substituted knowledge and experience with extra fasteners and concrete. 8)
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

alan gage

This will be a great adventure and should be a blast!

If you don't already have it I can't recommend this book (Independent Builder) highly enough: By Sam Clark - Independent Builder: Designing & Building a House Your Own Way, 2nd Edition (Revised second edition) (9.1.1996): Sam Clark: Amazon.com: Books

I got it when I was nearly done building my house and wish I'd had it before I started. Good down to earth recommendations and explanations of why and how. From site planning, to design, the actual construction process and down to the finish details. It's much more than just a boring how-to book and I still find myself pulling it off the shelf often to see what he's got to say about this or that.

Also includes a chapter about making a house more easily accessible for the elderly....not that we have any of those here.

Have fun!

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

alan gage

Quote from: Don P on December 13, 2019, 01:51:24 PM
One thing to think about, the cost of a nailer doesn't mean all that much. 10 boxes of nails is about the cost of a nailer.
When I was getting ready to do my house I, of course, wanted to do it on the cheap and didn't want to pony up for a nail gun. Thought seriously about renting one from the local hardware store when I got to the framing stage. Finally decided to buy one thinking I would just sell it when I was done.
Well, a few 10,000 nails later I've still got that nail gun with no plans of giving it up (actually I have more than one now). Sometimes hand nailing is kind of fun and therapeutic but you can't beat the speed of a nail gun when there's a lot to do (sheathing!) and it's so handy when you're working by yourself to simply swing the nail gun up and tack something in place while you're awkwardly holding it. Kind of like having that third hand you always wish you had.
Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

SawyerTed

Quote from: EOTE on December 10, 2019, 11:06:41 PM.  Our design calls for a 4' wide porch around the most of the house but the main floor is currently planned to be about 3' above grade.
I too am following your journey and admire your ambition!
My wife and I built our home in 1988/1989 with intentions of staying here as long as we are able.  We planned our house after talking with some older friends about accessibility.  We knew we would be doing some remodeling and or additions along the way but accessibility has been part of our plans all along.
You've gotten some great ideas here. The one thing that strikes me in reading your description of your home design is the porch width.  We originally had planned 6' wide porches that wrap around three sides of our house.  To save money, we decided to cut the porches to 5'.  While our porches are usable with rockers, chairs and tables the space to pass by is narrow.  If your porches are outdoor living areas, 4' is narrow.  If your porches are only covered walkways then 4' is ok.
Also, our house faces south.  The width of the porches is important to reduce solar heating in the summer and allows solar heating in the winter.  
I'm following your thread with interest and best wishes for success.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

EOTE

Quote from: SawyerTed on December 13, 2019, 06:02:10 PMYou've gotten some great ideas here. The one thing that strikes me in reading your description of your home design is the porch width.  We originally had planned 6' wide porches that wrap around three sides of our house.  To save money, we decided to cut the porches to 5'.  While our porches are usable with rockers, chairs and tables the space to pass by is narrow.  If your porches are outdoor living areas, 4' is narrow.  If your porches are only covered walkways then 4' is ok. Also, our house faces south.  The width of the porches is important to reduce solar heating in the summer and allows solar heating in the winter.  


This weekend was really busy so I didn't have a chance to check the forum but I see a lot more great suggestions and comments.  I am really learning from you all and thank you for it.  A word of caution though, I may not be able to use all of your great suggestions as I also have the second half to keep happy and I can present a lot of ideas but she has the final say...(you'd almost think she was the boss :D).  

I thought a little blurb about the porch all around the house might be in order here.  We decided on the 4' porch because its primary use will be as a walkway.  My wife is pure city girl and hates walking in grass and out here in East Texas, they have things called bugs and snakes which she has a total aversion to so the walkway is to alleviate as much contact with those critters as possible.  The primary outdoor focus will be the courtyard as you can see in the plans it is fairly large (24' x 36') and it will have a wall around it and will be where picnics, barbecues, lounging, etc. will take place.  It sits in front of a window wall on the sun room (roughly 30' wide window wall) and has retractable screens so it can safely be opened without inviting most critters in.  The one section of the porch is also screened in because the Master bedroom has a sliding door so I can step outside and smell the fresh air in the mornings without letting in the critters.  So you probably get some of the picture with the porch, courtyard and sun room design decisions.

From a perspective of the construction material, the porch will have the floor as part of the concrete slab with the rest of the house and will slope slightly away from the outer walls of the house for rain runoff.  We haven't decided on a finish for the porch floor but obviously non slip is a definite must.  The courtyard will have a slope as well and a polymer linear drain to carry off rain water.

The window wall will face West but won't get a lot of late afternoon sun because our surrounding pines are 90' to 120' tall and we are at the bottom of a large slope so the sun is starting to disappear between 4 and 6 pm depending on the time of year.  My wife also wants to plant some red oaks outside of the courtyard so they will be nice and tall around the time we are brown side up.

I hope that helps y'all understand the background on the porch.  Keep the great suggestions coming.
EOTE (End of the Earth - i.e. last place on the road in the middle of nowhere)  Retired.  Old guys rule!
Buzz Lightsaw, 12 Mexicans, and lots of Guy Toys

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