Makin' the Grade

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

It seems that each holiday season my thinkin' cap starts
to itch.  This season the topic has been grade sawing.
So what did I do for fun?

Studied:
              Univ. of Tenn.'s     "Understanding Log Scales and Log Rules"
              American Hardwood Export Council's:
                                          "The Illustrated Guide to American Hardwood
                                              Lumber Grade"
               USDA's:               "A Simplified Procedure for Developing Grade Lumber
                                              from Hardwood Logs"
   and      National Hardwood Association's
                                          "Rule Book" (pages 7-21 in particular)

Oh my achy, breaky brain!  :(

Now, of course, I had to transmorpholate all the specifics in the USDA brochure out
of conventional head rig lingo into something that a swing blader could use, but let me
tell, ya:   That particular guideline is excellent!   My goal was to understand FAS, Selects,
and #1Common, then try to saw some.  (Why not start where the money is, huh?)

When I took my Peterson to Wrightsville, Ga. on Tuesday, I was ready to do some
custom sawing and also to apply some book learnin' to the equation:
    About 20 pine logs,  3 Pecan, 3 Red oaks, 1 China Berry (Chinese Silk Tree?),
    and 3 Eastern Red Cedars provided fertile ground for practical application.

Hard lessons learned:
    1.   Logs to provide those high end products had mostly been left out of the pile.
    2.   My saw tends to naturally  (if allowed to)  cut below all three of these grades.
    3.   The "best laid plans" of the operator had been misplaced.
:D

As many have mentioned here before,  sawing something up is one thing, but grade
sawing is another.   Further, grade sawing with a swingblade on simple notched wooden
bunks is quite a challenge!   My best Red Oak had considerable taper, but had four good
faces - a superb log.   I used the "taper sawing" technique pretty much as described in
the USDA (transmorpholated, of course), but I will have to put on my thinking cap again
so as to be able to emulate toe boards and to quickly "set out" the log for sawing side
faces parallel to the bark.   Without some new gizmo to do this, well I may just mentally
hurt Mahselff!

Two days, plus two hours sawing, and  one more lesson down. 
A hunnert more to go! :-\

Phil L.

[Bibbyman]

I find grade sawing about the easiest sawing mode.  When you have a great log,  it's a no brainier. All you have to do is run the sawmill right and not screw up.  When you have a junk log it's also a no brainier. The object is to get it off the mill as quickly as possible and still make marketable lumber.  But sawing a good log with defects is a lot more of a challenge.  You have to decide where to make the most of the best grade.

I think the edger person has a lot harder job.  A good bit of bf can be lost if they edge too heavy or drop grade if they don't make the right decisions on edging and trimming back.

[Ron Wenrich]

Grade sawing using normal saw patterns isn't too hard.  Trying to do it on a swinger may be a different animal.

For us doing the normal flat sawing, reading a log is pretty basic.  You should be able to see the defects before they come up.  I find that for most logs that I saw, the grade will quite often drop one grade to the back side from the front, especially after the face grade is pulled.  So, if I have a 1 Com face, then the back side has a pretty good chance of pulling a 2 Com.  I don't chase 2 Com. 

Swing sawing is a bit different, since you're not turning the log.  To be fair, I've only seen a swinger in action a few times, but I think I have the basic concepts down.  Without the turning, it seems you would be at a disadvantage. 

Another problem is board size.  The wider the board, the easier the grade.  You have to get your cutting units and a certain minimum size of cut.  If you're pulling boards that are 6-8" in width, you don't have too much room to work with.  I know you can double up your width, but can you do that on a side cut? 

I remember reading where a poor edger man could cost you much more than a poor sawyer in lost grade.   

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Thanks, Ron & Bibby.   Think back a little ( a lot? ) and you will remember
where I am now:  trying to wrap my mind around a prickly puzzle.
Your experience is greatly appreciated!

Imagine doing the sawing and the edging at the same time.
That's what using a swinger doing the side cuts without
rolling the log is like.   One advantage of the swing blade is this
very ability to edge precisely where you want as you go,...
but it can be a burden.
:'(

Just kidding, guys.  My point is, that since part of the redeeming
quality of the design is infinite edging flexibility, swingers sure better use
it as they go, or become non-competitive.  For example, many
times I may take off so little edge/slab that all that is left is virtually bark.
In just one "layer" of cutting, I may take two stickers, a 1x4, a 1x6, then
a 1x3.  The next layer might be waste, a 1x3, a 1x8, then a last 1x3, etc,
each time "framing" the widest board for appearance or for best grade,
depending upon the job at hand and the species.

On the sides of the logs your max cut is 10-1/4".  (Can't double cut.)
On the other hand, you can decide to optimize
that 10"+ into a 6-3/8 cut with a small knot at one edge
so that you automatically have one FAS board and a
#1 Common ( due to narrow face, not defect).  You can even
use a swinger to take side cuts on the left of the log, removing
them as you go, then hop over, leaving the lower grade center,
and do your deep vertical cuts on the right, but not sever them.
The right hand slots remind you not to screw up while finishing
up the center of the log.  Last, when all the lower grade center is
out of the way, you snip off your right hand high grade, then
negotiate the best out of the lowest part of the log.  That lowest part -
the bottom face - is finally in clear view, so that you can place any defect at will.

Or you can remove the guard and use
the double-cut technique to snip of these right hand boards right away.
(Just don't like that guard off any more than necessary. I threw
some chunks of red cedar debris yesterday that made everybody
jump.  That was with the guard on, so it was just noise - no danger.
The customer said he almost jumped over his trailer!)


The big problem is adjusting for parallel to bark on the log's right side
and on the bottom face without disturbing the rotation of the log.
On a swinger you don't want ANY rotation out of the original flat
plane set up by your first top cuts. I came out fair on that problem,
but the amount of time taken to do so was too great. 
Dass du trubble I was in yesstidy! :D
As Ron says,  this is an area of disadvantage on the swinger,  unless you have it permanently set up and have some alignment mechanisms built into permanent bunks.   What I would like is a light-weight system to traverse the small end of a log + three inches with the means to lift about three inches.

I still love the ability to set up around the really big logs and just
"get on with it."  Because of that, I don't want to go into overkill
on this mechanism.

Phil L.

[Ron Wenrich]

Putting a knot on an edge may not produce the grade you want.  Although you may have enough cutting units to make your grade, your knot size is important.  Knot size is a function of board measure.  So, if you make a board more narrow, then your allowable knot size falls.

The problem with sawing hardwoods is that you sell your lumber on the poor side of the board.  The unfortunate part of that process is that you can't see the poor side of the board until you saw it.  So edging before you see the full board does have its drawbacks.  I'm running a vertical edger, so I'm in the same boat.  But, I do have a horizontal edger for back up.

The placing of the knots on the side of the board allows for some really long cuts.  Its a lot easier to make grade, but sometimes you just can't upgrade the board.

My experience with knot placement is that when you put the knot on the edge, you usually end up putting another knot right in the middle of the board on another side.   :(  It works good if there are only a few knots on a log.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Ron,
In thinking through what you were saying about knot size and visibility,
I realized one small advantage the swinger has - at least for the "right
hand" face and the "bottom" face:   You can see what would normally
be the inner (more-than-likely-worse) face of a board before you decide
its width.  A small consolation, but at least it exists.
                                                                                       smiley_monkeyfight
Adam,
               "You monkeys finish trimming those high limbs.  I want
                 some clear boards in about 150 years!"

Eve,
               "Didn't He say that you were to dress the garden and
                tend it?  Stop playing with the monkeys already!"
smiley_monkeyfight
Ah, for a land of perfect logs!  Well, some things have drastically changed -
others not so much! smiley_ignore

Phil L.                             smiley_singsongnote02    Let's go work on a
                                                few pianos.  Back to
                                                Milling on Jan. 2.   15
                                                very oversize hardwoods!

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Here is the link to the National Hardwood Lumber Assoc.
bible.  http://www.natlhardwood.org/pdf/Rulebook.pdf

The is the guide from the American Hardwood Export Council.
http://www.ahec.org/hardwoods/pdfs/IllustratedGradingGuide.pdf

Phil L.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I realized that I identified the USDA's brochure as
being very useful, then didn't list the link: :-[

Here it is:

http://www.wood.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/simplified_procedure_grade_lumber.pdf


Does anybody have much experience in concentrating all their highest grades over time, selling it pre-graded?  If you did a good job in that, it seems that you could develop a good relationship with a broker dealing with wood for export.

Phil L.

[WDH]

Are you still transmorpholating?  Have was the grade sawing focus on those 15 big hardwood logs you said you had to saw?

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Well, WDH...

Have you heard any good "the one that got away" stories
lately?

The logs turned out to be true left-overs, not the "big logs"
I had thought I heard about.  True some are 30", but are short
trunks on Willow Oaks, Water Oaks.  Some of the logs would
produce some good quality short wood - 6-8 ft.  Others would
grade out at Construction grade, which around the Forum seems
to mean "tie log."   Several Water Oaks were left standing.

I will say this...
Thank goodness I did do some log and lumber grading study,
before I went.   Basically,  the value of the green lumber is about
a wash with the cost of the sawmilling.  Hopefully, we can work
something out where he stickers the lumber and sells  it to end
users.  His preference of selling the green lumber to a broker
wouldn't pay, since you could get hardly any 1C, and could get no
FAS, F1F, and little Selects.  2AC won't pay his sawing cost.

I suggested that I saw and sticker for the same price that I normally
just saw, if he would pay twice the difference later when he sold it.
(Trust is an issue here, but I don't think it would be a problem with this guy.)
He invests a little risk, and I risk a little.

Phil L.

[WDH]

Sometimes the "one that got away" can be a good thing.  But, it sure is good sawing weather around here.  I have worked hard on understanding the grade in logs and how to get the best lumber out of a log.  With my Little LT 15, it is a lot of extra work, dogging and turning and dogging and turning.  I like rift and quartersawn, so to get that , there is a sacrifice on the grade.  I am like you, however, I am still transmorpholating.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

WDH,

As you may have noticed I like the big logs for the swing blade.
One reason for that is what you just alluded to:

If you choose to quarter saw, the small knot that would have left
you with a long flat sawn board FAS, instead spreads across the board as a
"spike" and often will give you two Selects or 1Cs instead.   In the very
biggest logs, however, you can get a clear vertical edge 16 footer
ten inches wide sometimes, that (as my late Pa-in-law would say)
would make you slap your grandma, or at least make you say, "Lord,
I love sawmillin'!"   

Quarter sawing is often at odds with grade sawing -
no doubt about it.  I would say it always is in smaller logs.

On the other hand, the finest quarter sawn Sycamore or Oak will
give a better return than even those "grade boards,"  IMO.

Phil L.                                    (Sent you a PM)

[WDH]

Yes, I replied to you PM.

To add what you said about sacrificing grade when rift or quartering, there is another big benefit in addition to gorgeous wide boards:

1).  It will be a pleasure to use because of better stability.  That is very very important to me as an end-user using the wood for furniture.  I will give up perfect grade for a piece that you can piece out the parts you need around any spike knots and get that best stability, especially on a table top or a chest top. 

The top on this chest top is quartersawn walnut, and just like you said, you can see the grain deflection from spike knots resulting from quartersawing.  To me, it gives it a hand-made character versus a stamped out industrial piece, and I like the friendliness of it ;).



I have never seen a swing mill before, and one day, I would like to see one.  One day we might be able to go get some stickers and you can show me a swing mill.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

bEEOOtiful chest, WDH!  That QS walnut has a nice shimmer to it, as well.
You don't see a lot of QS walnut.

I cut a lot of rift and vertical grain, too.    That stability you mentioned
is also true in the drying stage.  As some have pointed out, you may get
more crook (sideways warp), but cupping is virtually eliminated.

To any other victims of transmorpholization out there...  it is ironic that
many of the most attractive boards, even the most marketable boards to
a given individual, may not be in those top "grade boards."  Even if you just
cut a log through and through, then carefully dry and protect that wood, it
will have value to someone.    They just have to see examples of how it can
be used - see the potential beauty in it - and be able to get it out of the...


    DanG Pile!    
     smiley_swinging_board

Phil L.

[WDH]

You hit the nail on the head ;).  It is that danG pile that is the problem.  I got a bunch of walnut dead stacked in a shed, and it holds some amazing boards.  I just don't know exactly where they are in the pile, but I know they are there because I sawed them, admired them, dried them, admired them again, stacked them, and now remember them.  They are there, somewhere............  8).  But I will be danG if it is easy to find them.  That is why Dr_Buck's question about storing kiln dried lumber in another thread is so pertinent to me.

Phil,
With your old railroad warehouse, you could solve the pile problem if you transmorpholate enough 8).

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

The US Forestry Service back in the seventies defined
                  "Veneer logs,"
                  "Factory Lumber logs,"
                  "Construction logs," and
                  "Local-use logs"
For this last category, which seems abundant in my neck of the woods,
it says this:  "Generally sold in a local or restricted markets for such uses as secondary
                     farm buildings, box boards, mine ties, industrial blockings, and misc. local
                     construction.  Usually sold direct to user by the producing mill."

Looking at this is good, because it often means taking very cheap logs and making very profitable items.

Could we make a long list of such items.   We mention them all the time in passing, but a full exploration
of "making the grade" must include how to make the best use in this area of the log world, as well.  In effect, specialty niche markets are a "grade" in themselves.

What is the item?           Common dimensions?               How did you find the market?

Phil L.

[WDH]

You are transmorpholating again.................. 8)

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

It was too dark and rainy to saw, so I had to come up with something!

Phil L.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Local use Item:

Dump truck side boards        2"by10-12", 10'-17'long           Idea from FF (ya'll)

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

There I was.  Jan. 9, 2007

I walked out of a church (where I had been working on their
Steinway grand - love them nice ones).    Hear a chainsaw
running off in a nearby subdivision - range 400 yds., max.

Ate an early lunch, came back into the area 40 minutes later.  12:15 P.M.
Tracked down that sucker.   Tree trimmer friend of mine - both
of us from Dublin, GA,  40 miles away.   His buddy was attempting
to load a Bobcat S250 onto a trailer.

CRUNCH,  CRACK,  CRACK
smiley_applause
That poor tailer had none of its original deck boards.  They had laid in
two pine pressure treated 2X12s and were using two scraps of 2X6
back near the dovetail area.   That big Bobcat sat down right to the
frame.

I pulled out a card and trotted to the boss,...
"You know, Greg, maybe you need to call me when you find a few
good oaks, so I can saw you some real decking for that trailer."

I hope they found a way to dig that skid steer out from between the rails!

:D  :D                    Of course, I'm gonna call him in a few minutes to tell him
                                               that I already have white oak dried two years
                                               cut 2"by10" quartersawn ready for him.
Local use item #2:

Heavy equip. trailer deck       2"plus by 8"-10" 12'-20- long       Found a market
                                                                                                by being eye-witness
                                                                                                to tomfoolery!

Phil L.