john deere 440a with a 4239d slight knock after rebuild

kiko · February 06, 2012, 08:13:06 PM

Duckslayer, I got it wrong The first three should be the same height with forth one sticking up higher. Did not catch the on the first proof read.

duckslayingpro · February 06, 2012, 09:25:44 PM

Ok. Thanks. I will check just to be sure.

duckslayingpro · February 12, 2012, 10:02:37 AM

I looked at motor alittle closer before putting head back on. On number 3 piston (from the fan end) you could see where the valves have been kissing the piston. Next question is why? Valves not seated correctly from machine shop? Or something else? If motor was out of time shouldnt 2 pistons be getting toched by the valves at a time not just one? Thanks for any help!

kiko · February 12, 2012, 10:56:19 AM

diagnosing on the phone is hard and is harder still on a forum. You make a good point about only one piston being touched. If the cam timing was good, and valve adjusted correctly. Crown clearance is also good. Just a thought, there must be a part that is mismatched such as the cam. The block and head that were sourced seperatly may not match the cam, but I am just fishing now. If the push rods were to long and valve adjusted properly that would not cause the valves to stay open as the piston came up. Only cam lift to high or lift at the wrong time. At this point I gotta know, so don,t forget to lets us know the solution to the puzzle!

snowstorm · February 12, 2012, 12:23:56 PM

valve has gotta be closed when piston is tdc. head been surfaced too many times???? so the valve is too far below the head. you never did answer jd parts ?? or maybe fit? turbo and non turbo pistons are different. turbo pistons are lower compression

duckslayingpro · February 12, 2012, 12:38:05 PM

I couldnt tell you if valves are john deere or not. I bought a fully loaded head that had been redone through shafers in wolf lake, il. I dont know what they use. Yes my kit came from john deere. Thanks again for all the info

kiko · February 12, 2012, 12:40:16 PM

snowstorm may be on to it, a thicker head gasket may be required if they make on for this application.

snowstorm · February 12, 2012, 12:45:19 PM

Quote from: kiko on February 12, 2012, 12:40:16 PM
snowstorm may be on to it, a thicker head gasket may be required if they make on for this application.

when i get out to the garage latter i will look in my jd tech manual pretty sure the head can only be surfaced a couple times. i threw one away once because of that. valves stuck down too far

duckslayingpro · February 12, 2012, 01:12:27 PM

Well i would appreciate the info. How could I tell if it has machined to much? My other question is if the head had been resurfaced to much woudnt all pistons be getting hit?

snowstorm · February 12, 2012, 01:24:57 PM

it would help if we had all the history on this thing. you said its a 239 the 440a used a 219. so what is it? what was done? how much was mix an match. come the whole story. could only one valve hit? maybe wrong connecting rod wrist pin bushing loose. in the head one valve seat replaced? seats ground more on the other cylinders?

duckslayingpro · February 12, 2012, 01:53:21 PM

It has a 4239 in it. It had a 4239 in it when i bought. Yes it would have had 4219 in it originally. The head and block I matched the casting numbers up with the new ones. The head was just supposed resurfaced with new valves, springs, etc. All connecting rods were replaced with same casting numbers. Wrist pin is tight. There wasnt any mixing everything was matched like it should be. Thank you.

duckslayingpro · February 12, 2012, 02:09:45 PM

Intake and exhaust valves are kissing the piston.

sandhills · February 12, 2012, 04:13:55 PM

Went back and read the original post, now I'm really digging here, on the cylinder that's hitting the valves is there any chance it has the wrong bearing on the connecting rod? Only reason I ask is that I overhauled a tractor once and yes it was my fault, I didn't plasti gauge the bearings, they sent the wrong ones and after warming up it would lose all oil pressure. Needless to say I got to go through the bottom end again, I can't hardly see how that would allow the piston to hit the valves but after ten or so minutes it could create a knocking sound. Just guessing, please let us know what you find.

snowstorm · February 12, 2012, 05:25:55 PM

this is for a 219 dont have a book for a 239. head can be surfaced a total of .030 distance from valve to head .057 and .037 .you can check cam lift with a dial indacator with the head on and valves adjusted. when the crank cam balance shafts were installed was the jd timing tool used????? and a jd tech manual????????? take lots of pictures need to see what we are working on

Bobus2003 · February 12, 2012, 06:43:41 PM

If you need a HeadGasket let me know.. I got a pair of them and a valve cover gasket that i don't need (Won't work on my 4045T). I'll let ya have them for shipping

duckslayingpro · February 13, 2012, 03:07:03 PM

Bobus i may need that gasket. Not sure i may have one out in the garage. I always liked to keep a few extra things.
Well i found some pieces to the puzzle this morning before it started snowing on me. I checked my piston rise this morning and found #3 piston to be higher on one side. Dropped oil pan to find some metal slivers in it. Undone rod cap and pushed piston out to find the oil ring had broke and the bearing didnt look quite right. It doesnt look burnt or really like it spun just not quite like it should look. I guess cleaning things up, new oil ring, and bearing and check everything before putting it back together and hoping for the best.
But i really would like to know.why this happened in the first place? Everything went together smooth and easy. Evevything turned easy by hand once put togther? I just dont know any ideals??

pineywoods · February 13, 2012, 04:02:56 PM

I'm not familiar with that engine, but I have been bit by something similiar. Go back and check the crank gear to cam gear timing. If they are spiral cut as opposed to straight teeth, it's awfull easy to get it one tooth off. By any chance, did you replace either of those gears or the camshaft? Keyway off a tad would do the same thing...Putting everything back together without finding the cause not really a good option. Suggestion..Stick the pushrods for #3 back in the hole. Turn the crank by hand till #3 top dead center. Both pushrods should be all the way down. If not, you got a timing problem...

snowstorm · February 13, 2012, 08:02:50 PM

may be to late if you turn the motor over without the head on without bolting the lines down they can come up. all you need is 1 bolt ans a washer finger tight

duckslayingpro · February 13, 2012, 08:24:57 PM

i hadnt got a new bearing or started putting things back together yet. I have never turned motor over with starter with the head off. Have slowly by hand. Which lines are you talking about i sure dont want to mess anything up.

Ed_K · February 13, 2012, 08:37:50 PM

I think snowstorm is saying liner's I did a 315 cat motor yrs ago and lifted a liner just by turning by hand.With presure it took to press them in,I couldn't believe they could come back out.I had even wiped the insides with stp to lub the rings.

snowstorm · February 13, 2012, 08:44:13 PM

never did say i could type......cant

Ed_K · February 13, 2012, 08:48:09 PM

takes me awhile,wait till you get arthritist ;D

snowstorm · February 13, 2012, 09:03:13 PM

wait? we are close to the same age. thats why i went ctl try to perserve myself

duckslayingpro · February 13, 2012, 09:12:43 PM

ok. i understand exactly what you are saying know. i will put head back on and fingertighten a bolt in before doing it again. i could see how it could pop one up. thank you for the info. glad it didnt come up before.

snowstorm · February 13, 2012, 09:17:31 PM

Quote from: duckslayingpro on February 13, 2012, 09:12:43 PM
ok. i understand exactly what you are saying know. i will put head back on and fingertighten a bolt in before doing it again. i could see how it could pop one up. thank you for the info. glad it didnt come up before.

you dont have to put the head on until all is fixed jusy 1 bolt and washer to hold each cylinder liner so they cant rise if the crank is turned