First let me say I have enjoyed this site and I can't tell you how much I have learned from here. If this has been covered in detail in the past let me say i'm sorry but I am just learning about sawing. Does anyone here sharpen their own blades with anything other than one of the 2000 to 3000 dollar sharpeners. If so I would really like some pointers. Right now I send them out, but with shipping to and from I end up with $100 plus for 10 blades and it takes at least a week, sometimes more Thanks for any help.
Welcome to the forum. The problem is that to get a grinder that grinds the gullet out, plus a decent setter, is going to set you back that amount. 10 dollars a blade is about normal for sharpening and setting blades. Unless there is someone you have locally you don't know about that you can drop your blades off to, shipping costs are going to happen.
Suffolk machinery does have a video of a very cheap grinder that you can make, using an existing bench grinder. I tried it years ago without much luck. Others may have had better luck. You can get a cheap setter if you have the time and patience. There may be some used ones out there too that people have upgraded from. Guess a lot depends on how much you saw, as far as getting money tied up in grinding equipment.
Welcome to the forum LPitt and let me say in advance that I know what I am going to say is controversial. I have not seen anyone sharpen a bandsaw with an improvised sharpener but I know it can be done. Whether you will be happy with the long term results is something that only you can answer and it will depend on many things. Many years ago my brother bought a used chain saw sharpener from an estate. He had to remove an improvised bracket because the original owner had adapted it to sharpen his bands. I do know that the older fellow had a saw for a good many years but didn't work it too hard. I was told that this machine was his only means of sharpening so he must have considered it adequate for the job.
I was looking for sharpening equipment and noticed that Cooks has its Cat Claw setter on sale for $345 if it works ok that would be a good price compared to what else was out there. I just bought a Norwood saw with the Norwood non industrial sharpener not having used it yet its hard to say how it will do, but there are others here like Coastlogger who are using them and seem to do fine. I think they are around $500 or $600 you can look on the Norwood site. One fellow here used Dremel 8125 stones for about #2.50 each instead of the Norwood stones for about $10 each and said they worked better and obviously were much cheaper. I just bought 6 of them including shipping for $20 by mail. Wont be able to report how well it works untill next week.
Martin
I would ask how many blades do you sharpen per week and how much time you want to give up to sharpening? If you buy an inexpensive sharpener and setter but do 5 blades per day you won't use them long because that could take at least a couple hours per day and you will end up sending them in. I have a homemade sharpener and setter that work ok. Its a drag type sharpener thats set up with a cam, I can sharpen and set in about 10 min but usually set it for 3 light passes and that takes about 28 min. That adds up to a lot of time sharpening. It works for me but if I was sawing full time for a living and not a hobby I think I would have them professionally sharpened. Now if you just need a few blades here and there sharpened go for it, I have no reccomendation but if you set up with a sharpener and setter that works for you and you have the time, you will love it.
Quote from: LPitt on September 24, 2010, 07:59:12 PM
First let me say I have enjoyed this site and I can't tell you how much I have learned from here. If this has been covered in detail in the past let me say i'm sorry but I am just learning about sawing. Does anyone here sharpen their own blades with anything other than one of the 2000 to 3000 dollar sharpeners. If so I would really like some pointers. Right now I send them out, but with shipping to and from I end up with $100 plus for 10 blades and it takes at least a week, sometimes more Thanks for any help.
i do exactly that. my sharpener is a ez boardwalk same as my mill. EZ is a forum sponsor and you can find his ad and info ,even a picture of his sharpener in the column to the left.
i know that others will say that this dont work but it has for me for 2 years now. in that time i also purchased a used wm single tooth setter from a forum member for $100. i usually keep 5 to 7 blades in a rotation and i can sharpen them in about 1 hour. if i set them it will take another 1.5 hours. only reset every second or third sharpening. the sharpener is a modified chainsaw sharpener and costs about$400. i can sharpen blades about 6 to 8 times before they break or they dont have enough tooth left to do much.do the math and it will show that it beats sending them out for sharpening. as far as getting good at sharpening, it is a lot like sawing , the longer you do it the better you get at it.
in 2 years i have went through 60 blades.
60 blades
x 6 sharpenings each
360
$10 per sharpening
$3600
- $500 for sharpener and setter
$3100
not bad when you take into consideration that i only paid about $1500 for those blades. food for thought. this could also in the long run justify buying a more expensive sharpener.
this topic has been discussed in the past and had a lot on the thread in the way of video clips of these sharpeners working. might be worth your time to go looking. search sharpener. pc
I'd look around for a good used sharpener rather than one that takes a lot of time. Mine cost me $1600 new and I've sharpened at least 2000 blades so far. Steve
I use Munkforsaager bands that are 12ft 6inch x 1.25 wide.I pay 15 dollars each from Coleman supply.I bought a Kasco manual setter and sharpener for 550 dollars.I run a B-20 Timberking in Baton Rouge.You can buy bands from Country Saw and Knife for 16 dollars ,Morse or Simmonds.I cut a lot of Oak,Pine,and Silver Poplar.My first mill was a Kasco manual mill.Munkforsaager blades cuts Oak and Pecan like butter.I have been sawing since 94.I like other Mills and want one of each,but i like the one i have.I think manual setters and sharpeners dig in a lot more.My bands are good for around 4 sharpenings with oak.My swimming pool business pays for my sawmilling.One day i hope to make more money in the wood business. Brian in south Louisiana
Welcome to the Forum Poolman.... Jump right in! :)
I was thinking about KASCO just the other day and wondered if they were still in business.
We switched to Kasco 2" wide blades for our "other mill". I didn't even know they existed until I met them at a booth at the Richmond show.
Welcome Pitts,I started off sharpening my bands on a modified bench grinder as per sufolk machine. [timberwolf]You shape a grinding wheel to the shape of the gullet and make a rest for the band to rest on.To sharpen you touch the back of the tooth to the side of the wheel then bottom out to the gullet.Its quite tiring to your hands but its not hard to get a reasonably good grind.A tooth setter can be made with a Destaco overcenter clamp and a dial indicator.A system that works quite well is to sharpen your band once or twice then send it out to get sharpened and set, to even things up.I finally got a Cooks cats claw sharpener,when I got mine they were around $700 big improvement and the machine is built well.Get your feet wet before you jump in if your really serious about milling get the real sharpening equip. Frank C.
Welcome, Brian, to the Forestry Forum and thanks for sharing your experiences. I look forward to seeing pictures of your setup. ;) :)
Welcome poolman, there's several of us Louisiana folks on here. Tell us about yourself, fill out your profile. We like pictures.
Quote from: paul case on September 25, 2010, 12:56:09 AM
or they dont have enough tooth left to do much.
I don't mean this to sound like I am criticizing you Paul since you have stated your method works for you. However, if you are sharpening until you have little tooth left, then you are not grinding out the gullet correctly when you sharpen. Tooth height should stay the same throughout the life of the blade no matter how many times it is sharpened. What will begin to shorten up is the width of the band as you progress deeper into it. My understanding of the benefit of grinding out the gullet is that it leaves room for the sawdust to ride out of the cut in and also grinds out micro cracks as they begin to form.
Has anyone tried TimberKing Ultra Max Blades? They are running a free shipping deal right now 10 blades for 233.00.
hey brad,
you are correct. my sharpener however is not made to clean off the gullet. it is an all manual sharpenermade of a chainsaw sharpener head. it is not made to sharpen the way that the high $ ones do because it is not high$. my point was to show that sharpening your own blades ,if you want to , pays pretty well. pc
Hi Everyone , Thanks for the welcome I will get time for pics in a few weeks.I am going to have time for sawing pics when it gets cool outside.When i bought my kasco mill in 1994 I did not know anything that i was getting in to.I bought a box of bands when I was in Shelbyville, Indiana.Owner Phil Castor told Me His bands were better and said cheap blades would be my doom.Well the box of bands he sold me had a label He forgot to remove.The label read Country saw and knife.Phil Castor was buying bands for 12 bucks each and selling them to me for 29.Dont be fooled.I have a timberking B20 now.I buy bands from Coleman supply .C.S. told me they sell to TK.Timber King wants 30 bucks for the same blade i pay 15 bucks for. WE are are good guys in here who choose to work hard for our money.Try not to get cheated by the mill builder. Brian
I got a box of the Ultra bands along with a box of the old bands which were Munks. The Ultra's seem to cut ok...they cut screws, and nails, but can't get through rocks. :( I haven't really used them nuff to make up my mind. I used WM 7 degree bands on my old mill and they out cut/out lasted the Munks.
Ok my very first video ever. Don't clap...send money. :D The camera ran out of storage but you guys didn't miss anything. Just thought I would demo my shop made sharpener after Suffolk plans. It sharpens the whole tooth if I hold my tongue just right. Bands cut better than new and on my old mill I usually re-sharpened 10 times or so before throwing them away because they got to narrow. I'm thinking I will break more bands on the new TK cause it has more than twice the HP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWqL4b8wRsw
larry,
you were holding out on me. i woulda like to seen this sharpener set up when i was down there. maybe next time?
btw, if i had seen a set up like larry's before i purchased mine i woulda probably went that way. i have the bench grinder and the wheels arent that expensive and if i am thinking right the table can be made easily. pc
Quote from: logfarmer on September 24, 2010, 09:37:03 PM
One fellow here used Dremel 8125 stones for about #2.50 each instead of the Norwood stones for about $10 each and said they worked better and obviously were much cheaper. I just bought 6 of them including shipping for $20 by mail. Wont be able to report how well it works untill next week.
Martin
Martin, could you give us some more information about these stones ??? I just tried searching for them, and this post is the only match that comes up in google :-\
Larry your vid just gave me flashbacks, thats how I did it for a long time.Best to sharpen before miller time.How do you set your bands?? Frank C.
My first shop made setter was just a ram pushed by a lever bending the tooth against the dial indicator. Same principle as most of the setters being sold today.
Next setter was a ram pushed by an acme thread screw. It's a huge improvement, as setting is almost effortless. Lot more accurate also. I was going to manufacture them but found out WM already had a similar one on the market.
Paul, stop by any time. Always got something to play with around here.
larry,
i dont get down that way very much anymore. i used to go down to siloam to pick up a check for growing chickens 7 times / year . i really liked going for that!
i have one of those wm setters that use the screw to set blades. it is just a single. maybe you would like to look at that in person? you are welcome to my place anytime, just call me so i can be around.
btw i had contacted the sawmill- exchange about an edger and they called me the other day. when i told them that i found 1 about 1.5 hours from home they said you are lucky to have found 1 so close to home. my reply? i told them i was lucky to have found such good friends willing to help a guy on the forestry forum. pc
I just ordered a box of 14 bands from Coleman supply.They told me to keep prices from going up Munkforsager bands are gone.I am getting metal bands from england but welded at Coleman in Orleans ,Indiana.I am paying 233 dollars for the shipping and bands.They told me the English bands are getting good reveiws.By next week i should know and share my thoughts.My bands are 12ft 6 inch and 1.25 wide.The price before shipping is 14.75 dollars each band. I cant get my pics to upload or update my profile. Brian 49 in baton rouge LA
heres something you cant sharpen out i dont care how high dollar your equipment. i dont think.
before...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20540/2953/sawmill_029.JPG)
and after metal
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20540/2953/sawmill_030.JPG)
bad deal huh. the 3rd cut with a new blade. more than half the teeth look like that. pc
Paul is that the blade you showed me a couple of weeks ago? bg
yes,
pictures move slower sometimes than me. nice isnt it? pc
Nice if you intend to put it in your show case. bg
if it were a ''wasted'' circle saw it would make a great sign. pc
Just round the rest of the teeth off and you have a saw that you can practice folding up with. :)
it probably will be $140/ ton scrap metal now. was $22 now it is worth $.07 if it even weighs a pound! pc
weld 'em into little circles in standard hat sizes and sell 'em online as crowns ::)
I recieved a new batch of blades from a different source and my blade length is a bit shorter than normal. So I have a problem with tracking now when i tension them up and engage they are walking off and eventually popping off before i can get them in log. (not a good thing) Would a longer or shorter band interfere with tracking? I'am tempted to send them back due to i have to loosen idle wheel all the way in just to get them on. I havent messed with tracking adjustments yet because my other bands are working fine. Need some advise thanks.
A little longer or shorter shouldn't make any difference on tracking, I bought a couple Cooks super sharp(the only brand that didn't track the same) once which tracked about 3/16" forward of my otheer blades but they didn't come off. I might send the ones you got back being so short, you could adjust the tracking for them but it would be a pain switching from your old blades to these. If your mill is adjusted right the blade should track the same turning forwards or backwards. Steve
The regular bands are tracked real good foward and back. Its just when i put these on they are definitely shorter than normal, I will fiddle with it some more before i mess with tracking, I have the top right tracking adjustment screw frozen up, I fear it breaking off real soon I better go spray it good with some rust buster.
And a little never sieze if you get it loose. The only time I had blades come off was running diesel for lube on well worn v belts, switched to water that day and the blades stayed on, then replaced the belts. Steve
Not only would I talk with the blade manufacturer about sending shorter blades, I would also give TK a call before I changed any adjustments. Somehow the tracking may be changing when the bandwheels are closer together. Doesn't really make sense, but the tracking changing with shorter blades doesn't make sense either.
I'm running 1 shorter blade that broke in the weld, the saw shop shortened it a little and rewelded it, it barely goes on but it tracks the same as my other blades. Nothing wrong with TK tracking or adjustments. I'd suspect the blades redbeard got have a little more or less tension built in the blade. When blades come off the roll before they are welded if placed agianst a stright edge on a 13' blade there will be about a 1/4" gap in the center due to built in tension. Steve
I doubt that the band length has much to do with the tracking. I think I would suspect the welds. If the band is welded at an angle it's not going to track too good.
Yes the welding or the built in tension, one of those 2. I've seen the built in tension with my own eyes at the saw shop, a 13' blade is no where near straight before it's welded, the owner told me if was it would not cut good and he has run across rolls like that. Steve
The guy I get my bands from told me the same thing, a blade laid out straight shouldn't be flat across the back.
Quote from: ladylake on October 03, 2010, 04:51:11 PM
When blades come off the roll before they are welded if placed agianst a stright edge on a 13' blade there will be about a 1/4" gap in the center due to built in tension. Steve
I did something really stupid the other day and put a kink in a near new blade. :o Cut the band and threw it aside. Next day I was curious as to how long of bands my new mill runs so I laid out that band on the mill frame for a measurement. It didn't look straight so I got Kathy to help me hold the band on edge. I couldn't believe how far out that band was when laid out straight.
It was cutting great before I put the kink in it...just don't know what to think now.
Next time one of you guys break a band lay it out and report back here with your findings. :D
The blades on our "other mill" are 21 ft 2 inches long.
Quote from: ladylake on October 03, 2010, 04:51:11 PM
I'm running 1 shorter blade that broke in the weld, the saw shop shortened it a little and rewelded it, it barely goes on but it tracks the same as my other blades. Nothing wrong with TK tracking or adjustments. I'd suspect the blades redbeard got have a little more or less tension built in the blade. When blades come off the roll before they are welded if placed agianst a stright edge on a 13' blade there will be about a 1/4" gap in the center due to built in tension. Steve
Problem solved When i put new blades on that were short they were .055 and when i tensioned them up it put more strain on Idler wheel. remember i said i had tracking lock down bolt was froze up all three were broke off in threads so that was what caused new band to walk off foward it was pulling the wheel in. what was weird was the other bands would work, anyway it was bound to get worse, had to pull idler wheel off and drill and re tap works great now. 3 1/2 hr job and 1.99 at the hardware store back in bussinese.
Good to hear you got it fixed, if you switched from .042 to .055 I can see where they would track different. I should shoot a little PB and never sieze at my adjustment bolts, haven't had to use them for a long time. Steve
Score another one for the home team. Good job Redbeard, and thanks for sharing your fix with others. Someone else will probably have a similar problem. :-\ We always learn from others. ;)
Quote: One fellow here used Dremel 8125 stones for about #2.50 each instead of the Norwood stones for about $10 each and said they worked better and obviously were much cheaper. I just bought 6 of them including shipping for $20 by mail. Wont be able to report how well it works untill next week.
Martin
Martin, could you give us some more information about these stones I just tried searching for them, and this post is the only match that comes up in google [/font][/font]
I transposed the numbers of the dremel stones it is supposed to be 8215. They came from mytoolstore.com for 6 stones for $20 including shipping. I still have not had a time to see how they work, getting firewood for the winter, and other things.
Quote from: redbeard on October 11, 2010, 02:19:52 AM
Quote from: ladylake on October 03, 2010, 04:51:11 PM
I'm running 1 shorter blade that broke in the weld, the saw shop shortened it a little and rewelded it, it barely goes on but it tracks the same as my other blades. Nothing wrong with TK tracking or adjustments. I'd suspect the blades redbeard got have a little more or less tension built in the blade. When blades come off the roll before they are welded if placed agianst a stright edge on a 13' blade there will be about a 1/4" gap in the center due to built in tension. Steve
Problem solved When i put new blades on that were short they were .055 and when i tensioned them up it put more strain on Idler wheel. remember i said i had tracking lock down bolt was froze up all three were broke off in threads so that was what caused new band to walk off foward it was pulling the wheel in. what was weird was the other bands would work, anyway it was bound to get worse, had to pull idler wheel off and drill and re tap works great now. 3 1/2 hr job and 1.99 at the hardware store back in bussinese.
Let us know how many sharpening you get out of the .55 blades, might be a tad thick for 19" wheels. Steve
If i had a bit more power i could get a little more milage out of them. Your diesel would be nice, when this kohler checks out i want to put a diesel on my B-20 like you did.
I liked video that you (Larry) put up,But just wondering about the plans to build one,And where would a person send for them????.
I got plans from http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/ years ago.
Well thanks Larry,But they seemed to have stop displaying.How much did it cost,And what did look under @ suffoks machinery.
You had to call and ask for it. Think it was free but maybe they also had a video that cost a few bucks. Or they may have quit sending them out.
If you have the $$$, you could do like I did and buy a good quality sharpener and setter, and amortize it over time.
When I bought mine, I took the cost of it $2,455.00 and divided it by $7.00/blade sharpened and came up with 350.
So, once I sharpen 350 blades, my sharpening outfit doesn't owe me a cent. Paid for and now starting to make money.