Nyle 200 Kiln build

whittle1 · November 15, 2020, 09:58:54 PM

Please let me know what you think about my Kiln plans. My thoughts on the build was to build it so it could be moved. I positioned the 6x6 skids so they would be under the lumber stack. That will put the side walls on a cantilevered load double 8" rim joist. With the truss roof framing my thought are the end walls will take all the roof load. Am I looking at this all wrong? Please keep in mind that I need to be able to move this on my property about a 1/4 mile after about 6 months of operation. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.

doc henderson · November 15, 2020, 10:31:04 PM

that is a neat idea so the open side does not need a big beam to carry the roof load.

YellowHammer · November 16, 2020, 12:17:57 AM

From a structural standpoint, supported on concrete or block piers, it would work fine. The major loads would be from the nearly 11 foot long doors, which would be a huge moment load transferred to the jamb, as well as the door frame itself. Kilns must basically be airtight so door seals are a major factor in air loss. Since your kiln is elevated, you wouldn't be able use door support wheels tracking on a concrete apron to help support the door and the jamb.

The skids under neath I think should be much larger, I'd look at some architectural floor beam span and support tables for sizing. I would think the beam (skids) would need to be in the 10" range or larger, for a successful move without racking the structure.

Moving a kiln will really complicate things.

Southside · November 16, 2020, 07:32:18 AM

I think your door and frame would have to be welded steel to survive the move and still seal up afterwards.

That creates an issue with corrosion which means stainless, suddenly an expensive door.

Have you looked at building a container kiln? Resolves the moving issue, door seal issue, foundation issue.

whittle1 · November 16, 2020, 08:32:39 AM

Thanks for your reply's. I get totally lost looking at tables or calculations for loads will take your suggestion and find a larger beam for the skids. If I can't find that I do have some 2x5x16' rectangular tubing I could bolt to the sides of the 6x6 skids when moving the kiln. I have shared your same concerns with the doors and have kicked a couple different ideas around: Doors that I can set off and on with tractor forks not crazy about this, barn style doors but these would require additional support posts to hold the rail at the ends, Lastly but probably what I will end up doing is to manually assist the support of the door while opening and then have some sort of support for it to set on when open. When I eventually get the kiln in its permanent location I plan to set it on a slab and I could then add some offset support wheels that could carry the load of the doors.
Again thanks for your reply's and keep throwing ideas at me.

Don P · November 16, 2020, 09:39:21 AM

Not saying its a great idea and sometime I'll get around to seals but we just blow 2 cans of window and door sprayfoam every time we button it up. That part is easy, takes about 15 minutes with a scraper to get it off and ready for the next load. Don't use the hard stuff it takes a half hour to scrape off. It is messy and about 10 bucks/load. The one up side is it is really well sealed.

You can also support the door jambs by going outboard with wall sections or triangular buttresses. Think about making it panellized to break down for moving, moving is tougher than it looks. Personally I'd wait the 6 months, hire out the drying till then and build once.

scsmith42 · November 16, 2020, 01:38:26 PM

Ditto the previous comments.

If you build your doors "barn door" style, out of aluminum, you may be able to get around the weight problem. I'd suggest making z shaped aluminum studs that you attach the inner and outer skins to, and a closed cell spray foam insulation - or foam board.

That should result in the lightest doors possible and perhaps work around the moment load transferred to the jambs.

Your sizes look good too, but I can't tell what your inside height is. You'll need around 12' or so to be able to install a baffle wall and fully load the kiln.

One other thing.... come up with a method to prop the doors open. I've had wind tear the doors off one of my solar kilns when the employees forgot to prop them open. That's a lot of surface area.

PA_Walnut · November 17, 2020, 01:07:28 AM

Quote from: whittle1 on November 15, 2020, 09:58:54 PMPlease let me know what you think about my Kiln plans. My thoughts on the build was to build it so it could be moved. I positioned the 6x6 skids so they would be under the lumber stack.

OK, I'll bite: why does the kiln need moved? A solar kiln would make sense due to kiln position, but I can't think of a compelling reason for a DH kiln. I recently had a lady (who is selling her sawmill and kiln business) tell me how proud she was of her kiln having walnut interior walls.

Seems like a great case of, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

whittle1 · November 17, 2020, 09:22:14 AM

Pa walnut hopefully this doesn't post twice but it doesn't look like it went thru so I'll try again.
I have 3500 bdft of pine I need to dry and sterilize to finish my barndominium. The permanent location I have selected for my sawmill and kiln doesn't have power to it and needs quite a bit of clearing and prep work. I haven't found anyone locally with a kiln that can dry it for me. I don't like the Idea of a container kiln unless it is aluminum or stainless and can't afford that. Therefore doing what I have to get the job done and deal with any problems with the move later.

scsmith42 · November 17, 2020, 09:34:15 AM

Quote from: whittle1 on November 17, 2020, 09:22:14 AM
Pa walnut hopefully this doesn't post twice but it doesn't look like it went thru so I'll try again.
I have 3500 bdft of pine I need to dry and sterilize to finish my barndominium. The permanent location I have selected for my sawmill and kiln doesn't have power to it and needs quite a bit of clearing and prep work. I haven't found anyone locally with a kiln that can dry it for me. I don't like the Idea of a container kiln unless it is aluminum or stainless and can't afford that. Therefore doing what I have to get the job done and deal with any problems with the move later.

Thanks for the insight; your logic is understandable. Most of us that own kilns understand that a purpose built building - or container - is the best option, but in your instance it makes sense.
Do you need to use the kiln other than for your pine? If not consider building a solar kiln instead and augmenting it with heat for these cooler months.
Pine dries fairly easily and quickly in any kiln, and the solar is less costly.

whittle1 · November 17, 2020, 12:28:11 PM

I also have some quarter sawn oak I want to mill for flooring. Future plans are to saw a little of everything. I may build a solar kiln in the future. Like I said earlier I have a lot to learn even tho I worked in a sawmill as a millwright for years I didn't learn much about sawing or drying just how to keep everything together.

Southside · November 17, 2020, 09:00:29 PM

FWIW there must be a port in LA or TX that has used, insulated containers. I paid $3,100 for each of the two 40 units I have, one was 2 years old when I bought it and still has a working reefer unit on it under warranty. Stainless interior, aluminum floor and exterior. You can not build a kiln chamber cheaper.

whittle1 · January 07, 2021, 11:28:45 PM

I've started the Kiln build and will attach pictures as I go, Hopefully this won't be to boring or redundant as there are already a lot of builds on here. I'm following the plans that are on the first post. One big difference and I know a lot of you will disagree with is the insulation I'm using. I elected to use EPS w/foil both sides otherwise known as the white stuff. This stuff is 1/2 the price of XPS and R-4 per in vs R-5 of the XPS, will end up with R-16. I checked with the Mfg. and it is rated for 165 deg continuous and 185 intermittent. I'm not trying to promote this, just sharing my reasoning and maybe a chance to save quite a bit of money on an already expensive project. One positive is EPS is less likely to trap moisture and I think the potential to have moisture in the walls at some point is pretty great. Below is a link if you want to read more about it.
The difference between Polyiso, EPS & XPS Foam Insulation & Styrofoam - Ecohome