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COPED JOINERY ON SMALL LOGS

Started by Billight, March 03, 2005, 01:05:29 PM

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Billight

I am a furniture maker with a possible commission to make a bed with head- and footboards made as a framework of small diameter [3-4 inches] log pieces joined at right and non-right angles with tall corner posts.  Although I have 28 years experience, I have not tried this before, and would like to know how to do this joinery.  It must all look good, but obviously some of the joints are more critical than others in terms of strength.  I would appreciate any replies.

Jim_Rogers

There are tools that you can buy that will turn the end of a small log into a round tenon. And also in the set is a bit that will bore a hole to accept this round tenon.
Is this what you're looking for?
Or do you want to learn how to scribe a rectangular tenon on the end of a round log to a rectangular mortise in the side of a round log?
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Billight

Thank you for your reply. I have now gotten the commission, so I gotta figure this out.  The foot and head boards will each be a truss made of 3 - 4" logs.  The top and bottom rails [chords] would need tenons as you described where they attach to  the corner posts.  The joints also need to be coped [scribed] to the posts.  The internal members of the truss meet the rails and each other at various angles and I think would require less serious joinery, but would need to be coped for appearance. The design is intended to be somewhat delicate, not as rustic as most log furniture. I am experienced at scribing in the cabinet and furniture world, and I can see a way of applying this to logs, but I need to be efficient[there will be a total of some 70 joints in the bed], and I am hoping guys with your type of experience can help me.  Also, I do need some kind of joinery for the less serious joints, I was thinking of dowels, but am not sure how to keep the holes aligned. Thanks for your attention. Bill 

Doc

How rustic or non-rustic is this stuff supposed to look? Do you have a drawing of what they want?

If the look is somewhat rustic then dowel alignment that is off a hair is not going to make much of a difference. If it is important, then I am sure that we all can come up with some way to help you on it if you don't figure something out on your own.

Show us some pics of what it is supposed to look like.

Doc

ARKANSAWYER

   On the little stuff I "sand" it to fit where I want it and use 5 min. epoxy to stick it where I want it.  Then after it sets up I drill my little hole and peg it into place with more epoxy.  Makes for quick work.
  On you post for corners I  find plumb on each end and cut in with a saw so I have a perminate line.  Then I find 90 degrees to it and cut that line as well.  The ends of my post will then have a "X" from which I pop my chalk lines to put in my tennons.  Having these perminate marks make it possible to scribe in should your chalk lines come off with handling.  Most of the time I leave them on the bottom of the post so I cut it square and leave it alone after that.
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Jim_Rogers

Here is one tool for scribing:
Click here for link to Lee Valley tools' log scribe

Also, here is the link to the site where you can get tenon cutters and other tools for making Rustic furniture:
Click here for link to making Rustic Furniture supplies

If this isn't what you want or need, post again.
Good luck,
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Billight

Thanks all for your interest.  Jim and Arkansawyer, I am thinking about your suggestions seriously.  Doc, the bed has to be somewhat slick, not too slick. It's to be country furniture, but better looking than the round tenon, stuck together like chair rungs stuff one sees everywhere.  The clients are paying me for custom furniture. Joints need to be scribed [coped].  I just spent 1/2 hour trying to figure out how to attach my drawing, can't manage it.
The head board and foot board aren't structural, just attached to a regular metal bedframe. Referring to my march 4 posting, there are 2 rails that go horizontally post to post. Within the rectangle thus formed, there are 3 equally spaced stiles, vertical pieces, rail to rail. Coming down from each intersection of upper rail and stile are two diagonal pieces to the bottom rail. At a right angle From each diagonal, there are two braces either to a stile or to the upper rail.  Does this make any sense? A drawing would be better. Can anybody tell me how to attach/insert a drawing which have in my computer, made with the MacDrawII program?
Where the rails meet the posts I plan to use proper rectangular pinned tenons and mortices. The other joints I plan to use Arkansawyer's method using epoxy for a quick attachment and then pegging from the outside and plugging the holes.  For the scribing I plan to use a compass, then bandsaw rough, then tweak the cope with sanding drums, gouges, files, whatever.  It doesn't have to be perfect.  But the number of joints to do sounds like the rest of my life, and I do have a budget. So, any further ideas  will be appreciated. 
Bill

Jim_Rogers

What file extension does that drawing program use?
Can you pull up the drawing, take a screen snapshot and save it as a jpeg? Do you know how to do that?
If you want to send me the file or jpeg, I'll try and create the right size for posting and send it back to you.
If not you have to reduce the overall dimensions of the jpeg or png file to less than 350 pixels left and right or up and down and less than 20kb in size for the upload program to accept it.
Once you have it that size you need to create an album. Upload it to that album and then you can select the picture to view it from the album.
Below your picture will be a sentence that reads something like "Click to copy photo insertion code"
This puts the address of the picture, along with IMG tags, on your clipboard.
Go to the your post creation window, place the cursor where you want the picture and click CTRL V    that will take the address from the clipboard and put it on your post window.  It's function is "paste".
Let me know if you need my help posting the picture of the drawing.
Jim
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

What I would do is create the tenon first, with a shoulder 90° to the tenon sides.
Then cut a mortise into the piece where this timber is to be jointed, the size of the tenon only.
Slide the tenon into the mortise until the shoulder of the tenon piece hits the mortised piece and then scribe the outline of the tenon piece onto the mortise piece.
Slowly and carefully chisel away the mortise piece inside the lines.
Try the tenon piece in again until it fits.
Always make the tenon piece out of a smaller in diameter piece of log then the mortise piece and therefore the mortise piece will have a housing around the tenon piece and the joint will be hidden and look good.
Here is a drawing of this idea:


Unfortunately my drawing program has hard times with round pieces. It's made to draw timbers, not logs.
But I'm sure you get the idea. Don't you?
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Billight

O.K.!! With Jim's considerable help, along with my own innate genius for dealing with computers, I think  I have got my drawing to where it can be seen :



Please note that this is a schematic drawing.  See the box at the bottom for a slightly more realistic  view.
Thank you Jim! Also for your last post.  I had been thinking of scribing on the tenoned part, but I see it is probably easier to scribe the mortised part.
Bill

Jim_Rogers

Bill:
You're welcome.
Also, I resized and converted your tiff to a jpeg and posted it for you.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

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