iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Log prices

Started by Firewoodjoe, August 24, 2020, 07:18:21 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

stavebuyer

I read it as standing prices. Still quite low.

WDH

If you click the Georgia link, those prices are stumpage prices. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Hogdaddy

So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
If you gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly!

mike_belben

Thats a touch better probably than i would do if i brought everything to any one mill on the cumberland plateau.  A combination of poor juvenile timber and too many loggers willing to slave away for nothing.   Theres no way i could break $2/bf on anything localish at all. 
Praise The Lord

nativewolf

Quote from: Hogdaddy on March 24, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
Well first off congrats on sticking it out, it's been a tough few years hasn't it.  Overall I'd say probably not terrible considering it was sent to 1 mill.
Without a doubt the best way to increase income is to be able store enough logs of a particular grade so that you can have a truckload of a particular product go to the highest bidder for that product.  Still lets talk about what might be done.  If I understand you cut and bucked 15 trees, totaling 11,500 bdft doyle?  There were some big trees.  Size matters so if you have big timber that's good.


Right now oak tie logs are going for $0.55 doyle here in VA.  So basically everything just for tie logs would have almost gotten to the same value (leaving the YP out of it for now).   Hickory would sell at a discount.  Decent hickory logs 3 side clear stuff are selling for $0.60-80 /bdft to exporters.  Hickory veneer, 4sc with some good heartwood, is going for up to $1000/mbf.  Veneer in our case has quite a bit of trucking costs so our veneer pricing could be better if we were closer to Ohio.  


If you have large diameter long rough logs call around and see if you can find a mill cutting bridge timbers, they pay a pretty good premium for a long tie log quality log.  In lynchburg VA the oak and hickory would have sold for $700/MBF as a 30' stick if it had a 15" top and was straight.  That is international so converting it back to doyle would add at least 10% on top so.  Exporters are paying $1600/mbf for the RO and Black oak veneer and they are buying black oak.  Best sawlogs are going for $0.70/bdft here at local sawmill.  


Poplar is very strong right now.  Our best poplar mill raised their lowest log price to $0.325 international scale (basically the top junky log).  We strip the veneer out and send the rest to them and are averaging $0.53.  Now that's a huge grain of salt right there, international scale is very helpful, 3 local mils buy on that and it makes a difference.  This mill specializes in poplar, if they need it they buy it.  I do know that in TN poplar is very strong as well.  If your mill is not paying $700 or thereabouts for the best quality poplar than they are not paying a competitive price.  That's all the insight I can give you into the poplar price.  


All in all I'd say that if I were in your shoes I'd spend a few days on the phone.  I'd try to find some mill cutting bridge timbers.  They'd buy up your oak and hickory in longer lengths so there is less bucking (have to be able to move around a 30' piece of oak though).  I'd see if you could save up enough money so you can go a month holding onto the best logs and get a log buyer to come in to look at export logs.  Sometimes it's hard to save enough money to let you hold onto 80 good logs that would interest a log buyer.  
Liking Walnut

Hogdaddy

Quote from: nativewolf on March 25, 2021, 07:06:25 AM
Quote from: Hogdaddy on March 24, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
Well first off congrats on sticking it out, it's been a tough few years hasn't it.  Overall I'd say probably not terrible considering it was sent to 1 mill.
Without a doubt the best way to increase income is to be able store enough logs of a particular grade so that you can have a truckload of a particular product go to the highest bidder for that product.  Still lets talk about what might be done.  If I understand you cut and bucked 15 trees, totaling 11,500 bdft doyle?  There were some big trees.  Size matters so if you have big timber that's good.


Right now oak tie logs are going for $0.55 doyle here in VA.  So basically everything just for tie logs would have almost gotten to the same value (leaving the YP out of it for now).   Hickory would sell at a discount.  Decent hickory logs 3 side clear stuff are selling for $0.60-80 /bdft to exporters.  Hickory veneer, 4sc with some good heartwood, is going for up to $1000/mbf.  Veneer in our case has quite a bit of trucking costs so our veneer pricing could be better if we were closer to Ohio.  


If you have large diameter long rough logs call around and see if you can find a mill cutting bridge timbers, they pay a pretty good premium for a long tie log quality log.  In lynchburg VA the oak and hickory would have sold for $700/MBF as a 30' stick if it had a 15" top and was straight.  That is international so converting it back to doyle would add at least 10% on top so.  Exporters are paying $1600/mbf for the RO and Black oak veneer and they are buying black oak.  Best sawlogs are going for $0.70/bdft here at local sawmill.  


Poplar is very strong right now.  Our best poplar mill raised their lowest log price to $0.325 international scale (basically the top junky log).  We strip the veneer out and send the rest to them and are averaging $0.53.  Now that's a huge grain of salt right there, international scale is very helpful, 3 local mils buy on that and it makes a difference.  This mill specializes in poplar, if they need it they buy it.  I do know that in TN poplar is very strong as well.  If your mill is not paying $700 or thereabouts for the best quality poplar than they are not paying a competitive price.  That's all the insight I can give you into the poplar price.  


All in all I'd say that if I were in your shoes I'd spend a few days on the phone.  I'd try to find some mill cutting bridge timbers.  They'd buy up your oak and hickory in longer lengths so there is less bucking (have to be able to move around a 30' piece of oak though).  I'd see if you could save up enough money so you can go a month holding onto the best logs and get a log buyer to come in to look at export logs.  Sometimes it's hard to save enough money to let you hold onto 80 good logs that would interest a log buyer.  
Oh no, the timber is no where that big, probably 45 trees or so to make the 11,500 bft... Thanks for the input! 

As far as holding logs, that's no problem. I just don't know any export buyers in my area, guess I need to do some scouting around for more buyers. 

But, as far as quality,, the logs were just average.. the red oak was the best, but they start get bumpy up the tree anywhere from 16' on up
If you gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly!

mike_belben

I also thought it was 15 trees.. Whatd you mean by 15 stump cut then?


 sounds like you got normal price for normal timber, if it were where i live.  I guess we have comparable situations.
Praise The Lord

nativewolf

News today on RO:  

Doyle:  $1000 prime sawlogs, $800+ on good clear logs, $800 for large 3SC.  Lower quality log prices are way up as well.  

Just like with our YP pricing seeing this move up on lower grade logs is really key.  
Liking Walnut

Tacotodd

Trying harder everyday.

nativewolf

Quote from: Tacotodd on March 25, 2021, 09:49:17 PM
It's about time.
Absolutely!  That's from a very very large industry player so if they are paying that than it should show up across the East Coast
Liking Walnut

Southside

How far is the trucking?
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

nativewolf

Quote from: Southside on March 25, 2021, 10:39:57 PM
How far is the trucking?
That is picked up on landing for us.  I imagine that price would hold down to Augusta county if you were looking to sell some RO.  However, that is really most useful for those sticks that are either large diameter or short.  For long 15"-20" 30' top $ RO to Long Island $700 intl 
Liking Walnut

Hogdaddy

Quote from: mike_belben on March 25, 2021, 01:16:47 PM
I also thought it was 15 trees.. Whatd you mean by 15 stump cut then?


sounds like you got normal price for normal timber, if it were where i live.  I guess we have comparable situations.
15" stump cut. Id' say your right on the similar situations.  
If you gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly!

nativewolf

So lots of news today.  

Hard Maple- wow...smoking hot.  20% increase in generic sawlog prices this week.  I don't have a stick, hardly any soft maple either.  Roughly 1200-1300 international scale for 12" or 13" 3 sided 

Walnut up 5%

White up 5%

HM is the story of the week with 2 mill sending emails begging.  
@ehp What you hear from the great north?  @BargeMonkey - time to push on the sales price, just basic logs.  Even junky stuff seems to pushing a buck.
Liking Walnut

Tacotodd

It's about time that some loggers are getting paid what they are worth, especially considering the extremes that they must go through. Besides that, now they are just being able to keep up with inflation.
Trying harder everyday.

nativewolf

Quote from: Tacotodd on April 13, 2021, 12:44:26 PM
It's about time that some loggers are getting paid what they are worth, especially considering the extremes that they must go through. Besides that, now they are just being able to keep up with inflation.
I am happy for the guys in the north, lots of pulp mill closures in the last few years and they need a shot in the arm.  This should be great for MI, WI, and New England loggers
Liking Walnut

ehp

I'm not cutting hardwood this week. I'm cutting pine and its going ok on price . The top grade is the same but I got the other grades up $50/1000 above what they were paying so I'm happy . Good hard maple has been hot here the last 6 plus months . I know I could sell all I can find at very good prices . White oak is up in sawlog price as well 

BargeMonkey

I cant pound it fast enough, finishing up this junk job and go hammer out 8-10ld of decent hard maple and ash this week before the price drops. Places are getting pretty packed around here but the prices are still up. 

moodnacreek

That's good news about h.m. but warm weather is coming.

nativewolf

Quote from: BargeMonkey on April 13, 2021, 08:08:47 PM
I cant pound it fast enough, finishing up this junk job and go hammer out 8-10ld of decent hard maple and ash this week before the price drops. Places are getting pretty packed around here but the prices are still up.
AMEX is literally begging for HM logs. 
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: moodnacreek on April 13, 2021, 08:43:20 PM
That's good news about h.m. but warm weather is coming.
Yep, hope to get everything on the ground this month.  Then forward and sell in May, cleanup in June.
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Crossties in oak are up to $0.60 international
Liking Walnut

WDH

Hardwood Market Report this week for tractor trailer load quantity of hardwood lumber, rough, kiln dried shows all hardwood wholesale prices are sill going up strong.  FAS white oak $3.60/bf.  Hard maple $2.63.  Soft maple $2.32.  Red oak $1.86.  Walnut $4.88.  Some comments:

Ash- Sawmills are readily moving all developing green ash production.  In fact, buyers, especially exporting concentration yards, are asking for more than mills can supply.

Cherry - Sales contacts report brisk kiln dried cherry business.

Hard maple - With white and painted finishes over tight grained whitewoods the prevailing fashion, especially in cabinets, hard maple business is booming.

Soft maple - Soft maple has gained traction in the marketplace.  Some end users that prefer hard maple, but which cannot find enough, have become more receptive to soft maple.

#2A and 3A oak.  Competition for #2A and 3A red oak and white oak is intense. 

White Oak - Sawmills and downstream operations are struggling to produce or procure enough white oak to meet demand.Virtually every grade/thickness combination of green and kiln dried white oak is scarce. 

Red Oak- Competitive pressures are pushing prices for some items to the highest levels since 2013 and 2014.

Yellow poplar- Demand for this species remains vibrant.  Consumption by the moulding/millwork industry is especially strong. 

Walnut - Shortages and robust demand are elevating market intensity for walnut.  Sales contacts indicate all grades and thicknesses are moving quickly, and they are frequently losing orders for lack of supply.  Chinese buyers are assertively purchasing walnut logs and lumber.  At the same time, demand is increasing in the US. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

nativewolf

Thanks Danny.  I'll be sure to push on our walnut pricing.

Interesting thing about to occur in WO.  WO QS market traditionally prices logs much more highly than flat sawn( paying more for large logs) .  Today the flat sawn lumber is reaching QS lumber pricing and that is going to put pressure on the large WO.  I've never seen Flat sawn WO priced at QS WO pricing.  

Wondering if @YellowHammer is seeing that impact.
Liking Walnut

ehp

I wonder for the soft maple is that just white or can it be wormy . Our wormy price for logs is quite low compared to white color

Thank You Sponsors!