Anybody sold Mushroom Logs?

[Old Greenhorn]

Ah, you guys have some crazy ideas. :D
 Let me address a few of these things though. The pricing by weight may sound like a good idea at first, but the reality is that it's a non-starter. Just because there are few sellers around here does not mean I can redefine how logs are sold.  Selling by weight would be a logistical nightmare and human nature being what it is the vast majority of residential buyers will go for the smaller cheaper logs. Also, nobody in this business cares what a log weighs, they care how many logs they need. Everything is by the log, not by the pound. Imagine the questions: "How many logs can I get for 100 pounds?" if you have ever had to explain over and over and over again what a 'board foot' is, imagine if I tried selling by the pound? All the buyers will go cheap. That leaves me holding the bag on the bigger logs and I won't do that. It would set me up for a big loss on my time. Likewise pricing by size is also a non-starter. Trees do not come in 4", 5" and 6" sizes. Each tree will yield from 8" down to 4", every tree. As I told my last buyer, I get what I get out of each tree and she has to accept the range because I will not leave good wood laying on the ground. I cannot spend time and produce waste trying to coddle to picky buyers. The buyers I really want is commercial, not 1-15 log buyers that I have to spend a lot of time with for a $15 sale. This is also not supposed to be a full time business income. I would hate it if it was, too boring doing the same thing all the time. To paraphrase Levon Helm "I ain't in this for the money (entirely)", but I am favoring a 'get in and get out' philosophy which means selling a bunch of logs to a few buyers and getting done and moving on. It adds variety to my yearly cycle.
 Also, I have said this a number of times, but maybe it got missed. These things have a shelf life of 4-6 weeks. You can't leave them out in the sun on display, they won't sell like cordwood. This is a specialty field that requires other materials, knowledge and tools. Its not something folks will do on a whim.
 Nebraska, sealing logs is a good idea and I have asked this question of the experts I've met. Nobody has done a study on it and the general wisdom is that the ends of the log need to be able to absorb moisture during the soaking cycle, so they all (so far) have recommended not sealing the logs. I still think it might add to the shelf life but what do I know? They do advise to seal bruises and branch cuts with wax though, which adds to my confusion. I don't write the science here, I just cut logs.
 I appreciate the continued input, but there are a lot of, moving parts and technical issues as well as 'customer proclivities" involved in this tiny business. I have spent a lot of time figuring it out and don't think I will ever nail it completely, but it is interesting. The customers run the gamut from flaky to pros and seems to me it is much like the cross section most sawyers run into. (Think: "how much will you pay me to cut down my highly valuable walnut tree?")

[WV Sawmiller]

   @#)&%$! Fat fingered another reply off into cyberspace. I hate it when I do that.

   Great write up. Thanks for collecting and writing up your findings in such detail. I concur this does not look like a profitable stand alone enterprise and needs to be combined with other work although TSI sounds like a non-starter as you mentioned since these are likely the same trees people want to save.

   I like getting the urban wannabees suggestion. Charge them a fee to come cut and haul mushroom logs. Like people paying major universities a big fee to go on an archeological dig. They pay to go do all the grunt work under a supervising professor who gets all the credit.

    Think of Eustace Conway (Mountain Men TV series) down near Hickory NC who conducts workshops and people pay to come learn how to make shingles or skin a hog, tan a hide, pick blackberries or such on his Turtle Island Preserve. Also he gets interns who come work for free to learn his lifestyle. I'm on his mailing list and it is amazing what people will pay to come see and do.

   I assume you'd have people sign a waiver but you'd still likely need a good liability insurance policy with a safety plan and program approved by the insurance company.

   Sourcing wood?

    Can you conduct workshops as a consultant and charge a fee to have people come to their woodlot and show/train them the type trees needed and how to process them?

    Can you sell your services to come cut a set number of logs for people with them providing the trees? Be sure your pricing includes a minimum show up fee and is set up to make a minimum acceptable wage whether they have good or poor trees. Kind of like a minimum fee to bring a sawmill then charge by the hour or bf based on the conditions you find when you get there.

    How about cutting on shares where the landlord gets a certain percentage of the number of mushroom logs you cut off his property. Pricing would have to account for poor, medium or good woodlots. Maybe the owner gets a higher percentage based on larger quantities so the more logs his woodlot provides the more he gets to encourage access to better woodlots. Either you let him have and use or market his share of the logs or you market or buy them back from him. My dad and his brother used to cut firewood on shares as kids. The landlord got the first cut off the butt log off the tree and it was split, stacked and delivered to his place and they got the rest of the tree.

   Partnership with logger in the area especially where clear cutting will be done and the smaller trees you want will be cut. I'd think this would require some scheduling to let you go in first so the trees were not damaged by other larger falling trees in the area. A harder sell but might work in some cases. 

   How about construction/building sites where you get first access to high grade the useable trees then they come clear the rest as needed as part of their normal site prep work? It might take a while to get the right contacts for this and I don't know how you compensate them to encourage their support unless you give them a few logs or mushrooms and I assume you are not interested in the growing mushrooms aspect.

[aigheadish]

I like those ideas WV Sawmiller!

I thought similarly, about some woodworking stuff, to your last point, regarding construction sites. It's not uncommon, around here, to see a chunk of woods get knocked over for some developer to build McMansions on and I thought it'd be neat to get in ahead of time to acquire a fair amount of the good wood, before it was knocked over. Then, in consultation with the developer or home builders discuss pieces of furniture that could be built to be sold to, for, or with the houses being built there. Maybe it's a bar top, or a dining room table, or a mantle, or crown moulding, but I think the folks buying the houses would love to have pieces, in their house, that came from the property, at a premium. I don't know if idea this is a thing or not, but if not anyone is welcome to steal it. 

That could turn into a semi-neverending revenue stream, especially if you are reasonably skilled and get some workflow together, and a decent relationship with some home builders.

I think just about any company out there would love to tag any of their promotional stuff with how "responsibly" they use or take down trees, and they could brag about feeding people with the mushrooms those logs help create. There is tons of companies out there virtue signaling for all kinds of garbage, this would be an opportunity for them to signal for something good.

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   A question I meant to ask earlier and is probably covered somewhere here or in your sister thread but who and how are the logs inoculated? Do you include that as part of your service when you sell the customer his logs or does the buyer have to do that himself? How are they inoculated? Do you buy a little bag of spores you sprinkle on the logs or something? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

[Old Greenhorn]

Ah, now I got your disease. I typed a long comprehensive answer then fat fingered the entire browser window into oblivion. 2nd attempt:
 I just cut the logs, after that choices have to be made. I leave that to the grower.
 The logs are drilled with rows of 5/8" holes about 3/4-1" deep spaced about 4-6" apart. There are 4-6 rows of holes spaced around the log depending on diameter. The holes are filled with either loose spores or plugs purchased form a lab that makes them. The species and type are up to the grower. After inoculating, the holes are waxed over to seal them and any bark defects are waxed also. Then they sit, stacked in a cool shady place in the woods with as much airflow around the log as possible.
 There may be one small flush at the end of the season (fall) if the logs were prepped early enough in the spring. The following spring, when the weather conditions are right, the logs are either soaked or watered heavily for 24 hours to simulate heavy spring rains, then the logs are 'thumped', that is whacked on the end with a heavy hammer or mallet (I am NOT making this up) which is supposed to simulate the tree hitting the ground and wake up the mycelium (if I'm lyin', I'm dyin'). Then they get stacked again and in about 3 weeks (I think) they are about ready to harvest. Full time production growers will run a group of logs each week, that way they are harvesting every week, the logs need (I think) 3 weeks to rest after harvesting before then can be cycled again.
 Now it's true there is much bigger money in selling fully inoculated logs, but you have to choose a species, get the tools and materials and do the work, which is not too difficult, just work. Then you have to sit on them until sold but they will hold for the better part of the year before they hit a fruiting season. Inoculated logs sell for $25.-$40./ea plus shipping. AT this point I am just not ready to go there yet. Not everything is about the money. Buyers will of course hold you responsible for the log yield down the road regardless of how they took care of them. I am not too fond of that aspect.
 Anyway. I hope this answered your questions.

 Oh, and of course, now that I am done for the season I got a text from a new buyer who wants about 20 logs ASAP and wants to know how soon they could pick them up.  :D :D :D :D

[Nebraska]

Awww bummer folks  snooze you loose... it's obviously  after the end of legal mushroom log season, that was celebrated a few days ago... getting more towards dance board wood sawing, bench making, and I better cut firewood season.  ;)

[Old Greenhorn]

I drilled 15,000 holes last summer in ironwood and oak logs.  Spores were plugs, and capped with wax.

Will let you know how I make out this summer with the first crop.

Hey @dustintheblood ! This was 3.5 years ago, wondering how all that work worked out for you?

[SwampDonkey]

Never see anything like it around here. Shaga was going to be a big thing according to media hype. It kinda works like a pyramid scheme, the collector wasn't getting much when travel and time was factored in. Anyone I knew doing it was in the off season, seasonal worker or hobby farmer. You have to have an idea of where to look and have access, so most collectors tend to be woodlot owners or work a lot on public land. I could count on one hand the number of people who I knew about that were once interested. Only knew of one buyer in these parts. When there is only one buyer, it never works well for the collectors. 

[Oth]

Never see anything like it around here. Shaga was going to be a big thing according to media hype. It kinda works like a pyramid scheme, the collector wasn't getting much when travel and time was factored in. Anyone I knew doing it was in the off season, seasonal worker or hobby farmer. You have to have an idea of where to look and have access, so most collectors tend to be woodlot owners or work a lot on public land. I could count on one hand the number of people who I knew about that were once interested. Only knew of one buyer in these parts. When there is only one buyer, it never works well for the collectors. 

I don't know how 'professional' foragers manage it. I've heard of folks who start down south in February and work their way north through May as the morel season creeps along. The vast knowledge of particular spots that no one else knows about to make that work is staggering. You can't really just count on wandering around in the woods. You've got to know your trees down pat and be willing to walk for a quite a while with no guarantee of reward. Specifically on morels, I have to think they're getting pricier since half of my few local spots were mycorrhizal with ash trees. All gone now

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, you guys are talking mostly about 'foraging' which is finding and collecting mushrooms in the wild. I know very little about that and don't work with those folks. Here in NYS, by the way, you now need a permit and certification to forage if you want to sell them to shops or restaurants, or even individuals. The certification is not easy, you have to take a class which runs 3 days over 3 weekends and pass the test, which in part requires identifying over 200 different mushroom types. I was 'around when my friend and client John was working of the class syllabus for that program and he taught part of the first few pilot programs. I thought I might take it, just for fun, but when I read the class plans, I realized it was like another job requiring a LOT of study and I backed off. I didn't think I could pass that test, in any event.

 I work with growers, from the curious "I just wanna try it" types, to the full time "doing it for years" full farming operations. It's not a pyramid scheme for the latter, they are making good money. But the dirty little secret is: It's a LOT of work. Full time farmers are used to that and have the equipment and faculties. They also need the high end targeted marketing, direct to high end restaurants or major specialty wholesale outlets. That is THE key to it all, selling take work that a lot of folks don't like to do or have the skills for.

 This story is not typical, BUT it is an interesting example. When I first got started I had a guy from NJ come get a BUNCH of logs (close to 200). We hit it off and chatted a while. This was still in the depths of COVID days and it turned out he was a body building, weight lifting coach, and personal trainer. He was trying the mushroom logs just to fill in some time and thought they were fascinating 'things'. Well he inoculates his logs and sets them up around his place. He thought he would have to wait a year, but that first fall he discovers he has mushrooms popping out all over and now he has a full time job for a few weeks clipping and drying his crop. He had a big mess of mushrooms and no idea what to do with them all he is giving them away to family and neighbors and still has a pile. So he mentions it to a friend and that friend suggested bring some over to the gourmet restaurant around the corner. Well, the Chef takes some and tries them. He calls the guy back and says he will buy every mushroom the guy has. He is still buying them and BOOM, he's in business. He's been back every year to get more logs and expand, and grow at least 3 different strains. Shitakes, Wine caps, and Lion's Mane. We stay in touch. This year he has quit his job and although he is still selling, he didn't buy logs as he has gone back to school for an engineering degree. But he told me to expect and order next year. 

 But I want to find out how @dustintheblood made out with all those holes.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, I know some folks found out in a hurry around here, if you sell mushrooms it's like running a meat shop, a license plus your premises where you prepare it can be inspected at any time.

[Frickman]

Twenty-five years ago we had a big fad of growing shitake mushrooms come through here.  Everyone was going to get rich.  I had a lot of orders for logs.  Let me tell you something, as a logger/sawmiller who was extremely busy all the time it was not worth the effort.  Oh, producing the "bolts" was easy enough. I could always cut them out of oak tops as I felled the trees.  It was the special handling that cost time and money.  Here I was running a conventional operation hand-cutting timber and skidding with small cable skidders and forwarders.  I was skidding tree length and cut-to-length logs, eight feet long and longer.  And then I had to figure out how to skid/forward three and four foot long sticks and not scuff up the bark when doing so.  No thank you, it's not for me.  And then the customers always were very, very picky about quality, no scuff marks or scratches on the bark.  They always thought I just went to the "log warehouse" and picked up a load of logs.  They never realized wood is a natural product and the process to produce logs is very physical and dangerous. 

I can see if a person had access to the wood, cheap, and a way to cut it and handload directly on a pickup truck or tractor and cart you could make it work.  And then your marketing has to be top-notch.  You have to sell the "sizzle" along with the "steak" to get enough $ to make it all worthwhile.

Back when I was in the industry I made a name for myself working in a lot of specialty and niche markets nobody else would enter.  It made me a good living.  Mushroom logs was not one of those markets.

Oh, and one more thing.  It was hard to get a good price out of mushroom logs because "It's just wood." Around here, nobody thinks wood is worth anything until they have some to sell.  And then they always want a fortune.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I have been cutting these logs since 2020, and one thing I will say is that there is not one thing that you said that I don't agree with.   Spot on, right down the line.
 I am not surely not trying to make a living off these logs, I do it to add to my income seasonally for a change of pace and I have my price up to where it really does make a difference and is worthwhile (for me). But it is everything you said it was as far as hard work and yeah, I do lift and carry every logs, at least 3 times if I'm lucky, 5 if I'm not.
 BUT, as you said, there is a lot in the marketing end and a lot of folks don't have the time, patience, or finesse to deal with that part. I have built a small but valued list of framers that really do grow mushrooms for market as part of the crops, and they are pretty easy to deal with, especially after the first sale. They know that I understand their business, take it very seriously, and keep my promises. They also know they get good logs from me. I took a few years to build that rep, but it's working now. I picked up 3 new farms this season because I am the only guy around they can find and get return calls from, let alone logs.
 Treat it like a business and you can build it, treat it like a source for some extra cash and it won't do much for you. I started at $3/log, that ended quick and I went to $4/log which was nearly break even or a little better, $5/log and I started to see some daylight. Now I am at $6/log and it's pretty darn good money. If folks don't like my price I happily refer them to others who proport to sell these logs in our state. One did buy logs from another guy and called me up 3 weeks later, drove 3 hours to get here and bought logs from me. The other logs he got, he said were junk and all dried out, sitting around for months he thought.

 Funny you post this today. I had a series of correspondences today with a gal at one of the county (not mine) cooperative extensions connected with Cornell University (also a former log client of mine). She is putting together a new program for loggers in September. Something about 'Alternative revenue streams for loggers'. She had asked if I could prepare a session on cutting logs as it seems I am the only one in our state that is doing it as a business, keeping notes, and selling every season, with repeat clients. I sell logs in 3 states now.
 But you are right, it IS a LOT of work! Some days it kills me. But at least now I can afford to pay my chiropractor.