Searching for a Molder

[Coastal Gun]

I am looking for input on a moulder for flooring.  I was set to buy a new Cantec 518S.  Then I found some used Weinig Quattromat 23P Moulders. 

Flooring will be the bulk of my business.  The machines will only be run about 20 hrs a week.  My limitation is 230/240 3 phase, I don't have 460 or the power to use a phase convertor.  My concern is that a 4 sided unit will not produce a good finish for tongue and groove flooring.  Does anyone have experience with either of these machines and their capabilities.

[scsmith42]

I used to make flooring with a 4 sided moulder and then moved up to a 6 head machine.  There was a notable quality difference between the two.  A local competitor uses a large 4 sided machine and there is a notable quality difference between their product and mine.

Having two bottom heads really helps in terms of product quality.  My first head is a "hogger head" and the second uses tersa style knives and is set for a cleanup cut at .020.  HP is important.  We run most of our production as "show side" down.

Weinig makes a great moulder.  Although I have a Wadkin, when I bought it the thing that I was most concerned about was maximum width.  Mine can handle a 9" board and I wish that it could handle 12" or 16", but those machines are rare.

Many of the newer moulders use electronic digital readouts for setting the spindles.  I wish that my Wadkin had them because it greatly speeds up the setup time required when changing profiles, as contrasted with my older, mechanical readouts..

Bill Moore at W. Moore Profiles can get you set up with some of the best tooling and reasonable prices. He is always available to offer advice too.

240 three phase should be fine, as long as you have an adequately sized service. You'll have to run larger diameter wiring to the machine but that's a "buy once, cry once" type of thing.  I would not ever consider running my moulder off of a phase converter (and I have one that is rated for 30hp), but do run it off of a 480V generator w/o any problems.  Having both the generator and a phase converter, I can attest that the equipment has more torque available from generator power than converter power.

We don't end match our flooring.  If you want to end trim the boards, look into acquiring a jump saw.

Gene Wengert can chime in and offer a lot of great advice regarding dedicated flooring machines and end matchers.  



 

[Walnut Beast]

Nice. What kind of vac system do you use

[Walnut Beast]

Very interesting information 👍

[scsmith42]

Nice. What kind of vac system do you use

The pix posted above was taken before I installed the manifold.  Below is the moulder after the dust collection was attached.






My primary dust collection is an ancient Buffalo Forge 5' diameter 25HP  blower that does a great job evacuating the chips. The main inlet trunk is 20".  The pic below was taken during installation.  The discharge from the blower goes into a tandem axle dump truck.



 

And here is the duct work to the WBS and jointer planer.




I bought a straight line rip saw at the Hooker Furniture auction back in 2009.  When I picked it up I noticed that the plant was removing a lot of the electrical, air and dust infrastructure and scrapping it.  Fortunately the plant manager let me come up and removed whatever I wanted as it was costing them more in labor to remove than they were getting paid for scrap.

I brought back three 40' trailer loads of ductwork, piping, along with 3000 lbs of copper wire that I purchased from them for scrap value.  I reworked the ductwork to build my system.  That's why there are a lot of sealed off "ducts to nowhere" shown in the pix!

Thanks goodness for SiBronze MIG wire!  I started off having to grind all of the galvanizing off before welding.  The SiBronze saved a lot of time and hassle by eliminating the need to remove the galvanized coating before welding.

[Walnut Beast]

Very impressive system. Thanks for sharing 👍

[Sod saw]

Hi Coastal Gun,   I apologize for not knowing about your special model numbers and brands of Molders.

As an electrician, I have a couple of questions.  Is there any reason that you can not have the electric service in your building changed to 3 phase?  Perhaps cost? Perhaps the electric company does not have it near by?  Perhaps you only rent, not own, the building.  Perhaps temporary in that building?

Is there any reason that you can not replace the motor with a larger HP motor but with the voltage and phase that you already have in your shop building?

I agree with other posts about not having good luck with phase converters.

What ever you decide, please make sure that a qualified person sizes the branch circuits from the main panel to your equipment as well as the size of the main service feeding the building from the electric company. (even if you end up with a generator).  Long wire runs will reduce the guts and usefulness of any motor.

Good luck with your business.

[longtime lurker]

I've got this whopping great old Klein 4 sider. Think Pinheiro or Rex style: it's a beast, handle 20" wide two sided and the side heads can cut 6" deep. Big motors etc etc 

Its not suitable for complex mouldings but can do T&G or shotedge or shiplap type profiles ...flat tops and bottoms and machine the sides. And it's really good because it's a "short bed" machine, the side heads are directly opposed so a piece with curvature can't skip away from the heads no matter how much you are hogging off. That feature there is something worth looking for in a moulder for sure, because generally speaking with staged heads you get out what you feed in, and that includes bends in the feedstock. 

But it's a four header, so finish quality is adequate but not great.

I could run them through twice.

But I take them up the road and feed them to a six header instead... time being money and alla that. I leave my own machine configured for DAR/ square dressing only.

I'd suggest at least a five, and preferably a 6 header for running flooring.  Ideally with a universal head at the back. Like the short bed, being able to set your first side head on a 6 header  to hog and then profile with the universal can compensate for not perfectly straight lumber to a degree.

On the matter of electricity the best I can tell you is bite the bullet and upgrade to suit machinery, not downgrade the machinery to suit the available power. Yeah it's expensive, but you'll be thankful later. Otherwise you'll pay for the dollars you saved over and over again with poor performance and lack of scope for expansion.

[Coastal Gun]

I do have 3 phase power coming in.  The issue is I can only get 240  3 phase, not 480.  I am in a rural area and it was hard enough to get 3 phase 240.  That said it seems the only Weinig 5 head plus molders are only 480 volt.  I think I will stick with the new Leadermac 5 head molder.  It will get me started and producing a good finished product. I won't have a second opportunity to show my buyers the quality of my products so I will bite the bullet and go with the 5 head unit. I do have a certified electrician wiring my building. I can do a lot of things but I do know my limitations.  Do you guys know of a good quality knife supplier?

[scsmith42]

I do have 3 phase power coming in.  The issue is I can only get 240  3 phase, not 480.  I am in a rural area and it was hard enough to get 3 phase 240.  That said it seems the only Weinig 5 head plus molders are only 480 volt.  I think I will stick with the new Leadermac 5 head molder.  It will get me started and producing a good finished product. I won't have a second opportunity to show my buyers the quality of my products so I will bite the bullet and go with the 5 head unit. I do have a certified electrician wiring my building. I can do a lot of things but I do know my limitations.  Do you guys know of a good quality knife supplier?

All you need is a step up transformer to turn the 240 into 480.  For profile cutters, I have been very pleased with W. Moore Profiles.