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Author Topic: Kinetic splitters and production  (Read 2067 times)

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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2021, 03:18:49 AM »
My son and I purchased the largest Super Split last year.  I had planned to purchase a box splitter, but the expense was just too great.  The Super Split was cheap $$ in comparison.  I purchase the large table and added a folding extension that tapered at the end to match up with our wood conveyor.  We cut up log length for fire wood and slabs for camp fire wood.  That little machine would run all day on a tank of gas, never ran out of power, and if it wouldn't split it it would cut it.  We went from a 2' homemade hydraulic and a 4' hydraulic splitter with hydraulic tables to this machine.  If we had big stuff we would put it in the tractor bucket and bring it up table level or use a homemade TPH lifting boom with a hand winch and tongs to lift them up onto the super split.  The table is designed to keep most big chunks on the table.  They big ones you don't split in half, you take pie sized pieces out of them till they get small.  The speed of splitting normal sized wood 16" and down is
unbelievable, and it is pretty quick with larger ones as well.  There is very little waste that comes off the wood compared to box type splitters or wood processors with the multi wedges.  And who would ever wasting time splitting slabs into kindling?  The Super Split doesn't care.  It sips gas and runs them through faster than you can feed it, making perfect campfire wood.  A great investment in my opinion.  Did I mention I fit in the "old" category and have back issues.  You still have to use common sense to keep from getting hurt.  That splitter paid for itself in one year.  It will take many years with the box splitters.  Not that I wouldn't love to have one.  Great invention, wish I had thought of it.
Very little waste generated with the Super Split. Running a box or multi-wing wedge  I would generate a pickup load a day of waste. With the kinetic, that material stays in the sale pile. One of the issues with the multi-wedge common to any make or style machine is that the feedstock never "matches". The knot is always in the wrong spot, the diameter is two inches bigger or smaller than needed to make into make 4 or six uniform splits. So you end up with a high percentage of wood that is larger than you want or even worse you have to split again into pieces that then are really too small. Kinetic wood is more uniform and is easier sell at premium price to the upscale crowd who pay for such things. 

I agree with Upstatewoodchuc on reducing the big blocks into quarters before hoisting them up. I personally like the machine mounted(skid steer or 3pt tractor) for that task but the vertical option works as does noodling with a saw. I will say if you do follow up with the Super Split next season it will likely become your favorite option. 

Offline Gere Flewelling

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2021, 08:35:56 AM »
One detail I didn't mention is that the Super Split needs to be a one man operation as far as placing the wood and activating the controls.  Things happen so fast, the slightest distraction can be dangerous for a second person.  When working by your self it is not really an issue if you stay focused.  I would not suggest splitting wood next to where cheerleaders are practicing.  Just saying  :o.
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Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2021, 09:34:46 AM »
One detail I didn't mention is that the Super Split needs to be a one man operation as far as placing the wood and activating the controls.  Things happen so fast, the slightest distraction can be dangerous for a second person.  When working by your self it is not really an issue if you stay focused.  I would not suggest splitting wood next to where cheerleaders are practicing.  Just saying  :o.
Very true, if I pull the trigger on the supersplit I have already decided I would be the only one running it, I just don't think I could trust help running a kinetic splitter.
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2021, 11:38:15 AM »
Put the cheerleaders away, check. 
Psalm 37:16

Offline cutterboy

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2021, 06:29:25 PM »
Put the cheerleaders away, check. ;D
No, put the wood splitter away! ;D

Offline woodworker9

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2021, 12:08:44 AM »
Late to the party, but I own a Wolfe Ridge 35 HO.  Magnum package, which is 5" cylinder, 4" rod, 22 gpm pump.  8 second cycle time.  Great machine, and I'm very happy with it.  Now that I've run 40 cords through it, I've learned that I wished I would have purchased a box wedge unit.  I have the 4 way wedge, and a 6 way wedge for it that I bought extra.  I never use it.  I sell bundled hardwood, so I'm looking for nice, clean perfect splits.

The 4 way and 6 way do make plenty of kindling, but I bag it up and sell it for $5 for a full bag, and my customer base loves it.  I sell 1 cubic foot bags for $8, and 2 for $15.  No bulk sales at all.  Not interested.  Not profitable enough.

I get 100% free tree service wood.  I've got a couple guys that drop off trailer and dump truck loads every week.  I can barely keep up.  A LOT of it is huge oak, locust, maple, etc.....and 40" to 50" rounds is common.  Just got 3 truckloads of Ash dropped off, and 75% of it is over 36" diameter.

Because I don't have a box wedge, I've gotten tired of wrestling those monster rounds onto the machine.  The log lift handles them easily to lift them up on the splitter, but dealing with them after they get pushed through is another matter.  Several hundred pound chucks of wood falling everywhere at times.

I now noodle all the big rounds into quarters.  Takes a bit of extra time, but I have a 500i that makes short work of it.  I spent 90 minutes this morning noodling up that Ash, and it's now much more manageable for the 4 way.

At some point, I will probably build my own box wedge machine with a 28 gallon pump and 20 hp Honda.  I would probably use a box wedge 90% of the time with the tree service wood.  

Who cares about the kindling?  It's about speed, and not breaking your neck, not worrying about losing a face cord of firewood out of a 10 cord load.  I still sell the kindling anyway.....not all of it.  A lot of it goes in my own woodstove.  

I set all the nice splits for bundling, and all the chunks and shorts are stacked by my workshop for my own heat.
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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2021, 07:36:01 PM »
Tree service wood won't work all that well on a box wedge either. Been down that road. It won't be uniform and you will rip the wedge apart after you force enough knots through it. Big is fine. Sawn off limb knots and crotches not so much.
They don't post those videos.

Offline woodworker9

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2021, 10:38:54 PM »
Agreed, but I cut around the big crotch pieces, and I don't try to jamb them through the splitter.  There's plenty of good wood available to not worry about the crappy stuff.

My wife and I enjoy an outdoor bonfire on the patio from time to time, and I also heat my shop with wood, so that stuff gets burned up that way, once it's dried.

Big hardwood rounds are perfectly matched by a drag back box wedge machine.  Seen it with my own eyes.  Wolfe Ridge and Eastonmade make very good ones.
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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2021, 04:09:52 AM »
I had the same experience with the 6-way. Very seldom found it right for the task and a real hassle to wrestle the pieces needing to be re-split off, around, or over the wedge.

I had 4-way,6 way, and the very first box wedge Eastonmade built on my 22-28. I used the box wedge the most and found it most effective raised all the way up and running large rounds into boiler wood.

Two main issues. First is always going to be your wings are fixed and your logs are not. Every pass generally slices two pieces off the outside that vary from kindling to full size. Second is the fun times you have trying to free a tough knot stuck in a box wedge.

Yes, box wedge works better than 4-way or 6-way for big rounds. Big and knotty; they need to pay a tipping fee as free is still overpriced.

Offline woodworker9

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2021, 12:21:43 AM »
I pile up all my nasty, gnarly crotch pieces, take off the 4 way wedge, and split them into chunks with just the single wedge.  I burn that stuff in my woodshop woodstove.  I just finished restoring this 70's vintage Fisher Grandpa Bear stove.



 
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Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2021, 05:43:15 AM »
I pile up all my nasty, gnarly crotch pieces, take off the 4 way wedge, and split them into chunks with just the single wedge.  I burn that stuff in my woodshop woodstove.  I just finished restoring this 70's vintage Fisher Grandpa Bear stove.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Nice stove woodworker! I do basically the same, id feel bad mixing in waste with customer loads so all the waste chunks of wood that are unshakable but still good blown up knots or twisted stuff gets bucketed away from the processing site and burned in the garage woodstove which is an old 70's Earth Stove.
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2021, 12:24:16 AM »
Thank you.  It was a rusty trainwreck of a stove when I bought it.  I welded up a baffle plate for it to create a secondary burn of the gasses before going up the chimney, and it works great.  My other stove, which was a smaller Fisher Grandma Bear, wasn't putting out enough heat on the really cold cold days, and this one throws off a lot more heat.

And, yes, I burn all the ugly wood myself.  I only sell the perfect looking splits, bundled up nicely.  I cut everything at 16", but the tree service guys can't seem to cut their logs into the right sized sections, regardless of how many times I ask them to use multiples of 16".  So, I have a rather huge and growing pile of shorts, too, that I also burn myself, or give to my daughter and her husband.
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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2021, 12:35:20 PM »
I stumbled across the photo looking for something else but thought this topic was a good place to share it.



 

We were feeding bigger blocks through the 6-way wedge and finishing them up into uniform stove wood splits with the kinetic. That loader had a 3 yard bucket and stacked rounded up would yield 1/2 cord. We generally had a waiting list for wood and many customers dropped empty trailers

Now obviously piddling around with firewood doesn't justify that kind of capital investment in a wheel loader. Firewood was a sideline to the log yard which in itself was an offshoot of the sawmill. The blocks mostly came from our being "paid" to upgrade logs that were poorly manufactured to make them into a higher value log. So we either paid to haul off the chunks or processed them it into a very saleable product. If you didn't cut and split you couldn't give it away.

Note the size of the splits coming off the the 6-way wedge; if you are selling stove wood you need a kinetic. We loved boiler wood but sold probably 10-1 of the stove sized splits. Many of our customers were older and really appreciated wood they could handle.
 

Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2021, 12:51:27 PM »
I stumbled across the photo looking for something else but thought this topic was a good place to share it.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

We were feeding bigger blocks through the 6-way wedge and finishing them up into uniform stove wood splits with the kinetic. That loader had a 3 yard bucket and stacked rounded up would yield 1/2 cord. We generally had a waiting list for wood and many customers dropped empty trailers

Now obviously piddling around with firewood doesn't justify that kind of capital investment in a wheel loader. Firewood was a sideline to the log yard which in itself was an offshoot of the sawmill. The blocks mostly came from our being "paid" to upgrade logs that were poorly manufactured to make them into a higher value log. So we either paid to haul off the chunks or processed them it into a very saleable product. If you didn't cut and split you couldn't give it away.

Note the size of the splits coming off the the 6-way wedge; if you are selling stove wood you need a kinetic. We loved boiler wood but sold probably 10-1 of the stove sized splits. Many of our customers were older and really appreciated wood they could handle.
 
Awesome stuff, we have a similar style! I flip the vertical splitter up and quarter the mosters then pass them to the 4 way splitter and split right into the loader bucket so we handle it the least and the loader does the hard work!
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2021, 12:53:52 PM »
Its always a struggle for me to focus because as youre illustrating.. Once youve set up for one business, youre usually really close to being into another business too.  And if you have enough land, iron, fuel, raw material and laborers you can be running 7 days a week, in dire need of a break from all your success.


So it still takes money to make money and its still feast or famine.  Its only a function of youth that made us think the quips of old timers were dumb and we'd show them a thing or two since they clearly just didnt understand what we understood.  But alas, theres still no free lunch [except for the people on the other end of the tax conveyor]
Psalm 37:16

Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2021, 01:23:58 PM »
Its always a struggle for me to focus because as youre illustrating.. Once youve set up for one business, youre usually really close to being into another business too.  And if you have enough land, iron, fuel, raw material and laborers you can be running 7 days a week, in dire need of a break from all your success.


So it still takes money to make money and its still feast or famine.  Its only a function of youth that made us think the quips of old timers were dumb and we'd show them a thing or two since they clearly just didnt understand what we understood.  But alas, theres still no free lunch [except for the people on the other end of the tax conveyor]
I agree 100%, we must decide at what point enough is enough, but ill admit I'm still young enough and like nice toys so I do find myself working often lol.
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2021, 01:59:20 PM »
Mike you did nail the analysis. It is both a treadmill and an opportunity. Many times you have no choice but to either quit or expand. The old adage is that you are either growing or going out is one I found to be true and I pretty well downsized myself out. You realize things are all intertwined. Nothing works by itself. You had to have the log yard to feed the mill, and the firewood to optimize the log yard. None would stand alone and all together can consume you.

The upside is you can build equity by buying good equipment instead of paying taxes. The downside is its getting impossible to find people willing get their hands dirty no matter what you pay.


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