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John Deere guys

Started by rdobb13, August 24, 2022, 01:47:01 PM

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rdobb13

I've tried searching but I just end up reading all the threads that pop up that have nothing to do with what I'm looking for but have a few key words.  

648g3 TC....front and rears are over full, diff lock doesn't work.  Where should I be losing and gaining fluid with bad brake seals or a bad diff lock seal?  Where all does the trans system send fluid and can it mix with the grapple, blade and steering systems?  

435 series2 loader, today it starts and runs but the controls wouldn't unlock.  I started with the door and seat switch.  I have no voltage in those circuits and can't find a fuse or relay that seems to relate to that.

The downloadable manuals I bought have no schematics for wiring at all for the loader.  

It's the little things that get me.  

newoodguy78

@kiko this is the most help I can offer. Best of luck with it. 

rdobb13

Appreciate it....I do most of the work but I'm certainly no mechanic.  

kiko

More than likely you have a brake seal leaking.  The diff lock system is stand alone on on the g3.  It has a separate pump for the diff lock that pulls suction from the front differential.  The service brakes are operated from the main hydraulic system.  There are 2 brake pistons in each axle . A blown brake seal would add your hydraulic oil to the axle system.  Temporarily pluging  the brake line  off to determine which axle has the leak would be next.
As far as the knuckle boom goes I am not as familiar .  But the safety switches are related to the pilot control system and I would be looking for a fuse marked pilot , safety or control.  Any more detailed questions  on the axle system just ask.

rdobb13

Quote from: kiko on August 24, 2022, 11:08:25 PM
More than likely you have a brake seal leaking.  The diff lock system is stand alone on on the g3.  It has a separate pump for the diff lock that pulls suction from the front differential.  The service brakes are operated from the main hydraulic system.  There are 2 brake pistons in each axle . A blown brake seal would add your hydraulic oil to the axle system.  Temporarily pluging  the brake line  off to determine which axle has the leak would be next.
As far as the knuckle boom goes I am not as familiar .  But the safety switches are related to the pilot control system and I would be looking for a fuse marked pilot , safety or control.  Any more detailed questions  on the axle system just ask.
Where is the pump for the diff lock?  How would I rule out the pump being bad to make it inoperable?
The brake seals seem to be the most likely, I'll try blocking them off to narrow it down.  Are they right there when you pull the axle housing?  Is there anything else I should check while I'm in there?
I'm at Deere now hoping to get a wiring diagram.  Hope that's all I need, wiring sucks for me being colorblind.  But half the wires are all white but numbered.  
Thanks for the help, I've read lots of your posts.  You should move to Ohio and start a shop, no good ones here.  

kiko

The diff lock pump is bolted to the back of the transmission pump.  It is a small gear pump.  You will need to jack the cab over to access it.  There will be a rubber hose coming in from the bottom and that is the suction line it will go all the way to the front axle housing.  It is common for that hose to rub a hole, but often that destroy s the pump because it runs dry.. the diff lock pressure hose will come out of the top of the pump and go to the manifold block at the back of front frame. There is a filter in between  that line and the manifold block . That filter can be taken apart to look for debris from the pump or axle.  Always check that  filter before replacing the pump as it can bust the new pump if it is stopped up.  The brake lines will go I into what I call the pinion quill. All other lines go into the axle housing itself.  Just plug the line where it enters the pinion quill.  The axle trumpets must be removed to access the brakes.  This CAN be done on the front without removing the axle assembly , I find it quicker , easier to reassemble correctly,  and safer to just remove the assembly.  On the rear the assembly must be removed to access the brakes.

rdobb13

Quote from: kiko on August 25, 2022, 04:10:21 PM
The diff lock pump is bolted to the back of the transmission pump.  It is a small gear pump.  You will need to jack the cab over to access it.  There will be a rubber hose coming in from the bottom and that is the suction line it will go all the way to the front axle housing.  It is common for that hose to rub a hole, but often that destroy s the pump because it runs dry.. the diff lock pressure hose will come out of the top of the pump and go to the manifold block at the back of front frame. There is a filter in between  that line and the manifold block . That filter can be taken apart to look for debris from the pump or axle.  Always check that  filter before replacing the pump as it can bust the new pump if it is stopped up.  The brake lines will go I into what I call the pinion quill. All other lines go into the axle housing itself.  Just plug the line where it enters the pinion quill.  The axle trumpets must be removed to access the brakes.  This CAN be done on the front without removing the axle assembly , I find it quicker , easier to reassemble correctly,  and safer to just remove the assembly.  On the rear the assembly must be removed to access the brakes.
I'll check it out this weekend....I hope.  Oil is too expensive to waste.  
After visiting Deere I got the wrong schematics, must have been a different model.  I did however supply power to the door switch and everything works.  I still couldn't backtrack the power to where it should come from.  Looking at a broken wire under the seat possibly.  
Thanks for all the info, I'm sure I'll have more questions. It's a lot to keep up with.  

rdobb13

@kiko   so I'm changed the seals this past week, tried to put it back together this week.  It is still overflowing the front and rear ends.

I've tried blocking off the front line and back line individually to see which it is.  It overflows regardless of which is blocked.  I'd like to think that I did it right so let's pretend I did.  What else would cause this? 

The diff lock was inoperable till I started it up today.  The in cab switch was bad.  I used a jumper wire to test it prior to tearing it down and it does work.

How does the fluid travel once in the center section?  Metal tubing or galley's formed in?  Could it be cracked there?

With front and rear brake lines blocked off you can run the diff lock and oil will come out the brake fitting.  I assume my trouble is in the center section based on this, how else would differential oil come out the brake fitting if it wasn't broke inside?  The brakes work great also.  


kiko

Just for clarity.   Which seals did you replace?

rdobb13

Quote from: kiko on September 13, 2022, 04:22:45 PM
Just for clarity.   Which seals did you replace?
My apologies, the brake seals.  

kiko

It would be normal for the diff lock to leak into the case somewhat.  The differential oil is constantly circulated from front to back.  The brake oil enter the pinion housing and is transferred to the brake pistons on each side , there is a metal line that transfers the oil to other side,  don't really know how to explain.  I will get some pictures in the morning to help with that. That is one heck of a job replacing all 8 of those brake seals . How did the brake plates look?  

rdobb13

@kiko   that would be great, thank you.  

As far as I know the the three brake pieces look good.  I didn't measure the piston or outer piece for specs, just appear good.  New fiber discs.

My plan is to drain both diffs and hook the brakes back up and see which leaks first.  Kinda hard to tell since they are connected as we filled them before reinstalling them.  I assumed the diff lock issue was ok minus the fact that it came out the brake fitting.  Hopefully I can narrow it down to one axle, or maybe it's both. 

Is it possible to make a "jig" with the axle housing off that sits against the piston to work the brakes?  On the front that is if that it.  

It overfilled rather quickly so I assumed it had to be in the housing and at full pump pressure.  

Not gonna lie, my pride was kinda crushed when we had the same problem after a couple grand in parts and days of work.  We also freshened up the walking beam and steering cylinder bushings.

kiko

These are the two places the brake pressure enters the axle.


 
The brake line can go on either side. The other side will be plugged

 
Behind the quill cover is this metal line that connects the two ports

kiko

Sorry it is coming in pieces busy today


 

kiko

These are the passages to the brake pistons.where the orings are.


 


rdobb13

@kiko thank you very much sir.  Cross over lines busted.  Before I put it back together I air tested it, no leaks.  Finally!!!!  Very much appreciated sir.  Now to check the rear.  

GRANITEstateMP

I don't have a JD or a question, just a comment. Kiko, I always enjoy when you help a forum member work through a problem, your understanding of so many of these machines and there different systems, AND, weak spots is amazing! Just wanted to say thank you for sharing that knowledge

Matt
Hakki Pilke 1x37
Kubota M6040
Load Trail 12ft Dump Trailer
2015 GMC 3500HD SRW
2016 Polaris 450HO
2016 Polaris 570
SureTrac 12ft Dump Trailer

barbender

I have a friend that knows kiko personally from the time the friend spent in Georgia logging. He says kiko is a first rate guy in person too👍
Too many irons in the fire

kiko

Thanks fellers,  I do like to share what I have learned over my 30 year career esp if it will help another hard working person,   Almost all I learned  on the job and in the theory of operation section in the manual. Unfortunately my body ain't what it used to be , so I can still fix it but the time frame may be different nowdays.

bushmechanic

I hear you on the 30 plus years Kiko, I recently gave up the bush work and took a job at a Koiti dealership. In out of the weather and a whole lot cleaner! I tell the bosses I got two speeds... slow and stop :D 

teakwood

I'm sure they like you there and take advantage of such a good mechanic.

Both of you @kiko  and @bushmechanic are a walking cyclopedia of mechanical knowledge and we are blessed to have you in the FF.
You have helped so many members including me and i want to thank you for that.

thanks to kiko i got the complete overhaul kit for my Excavator hyd pump at a very good price. She will sing again!



National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

teakwood

Speaking of good mechanics, does anybody knows what the heck happened to Mike?  I sure miss him here and i don't think i'm the only one. couldn't even send him a PM  ???
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

kiko

I might not be that old but I got high mileage.  Had a couple of customers that went to the gym and jogged on the daily. They wanted their john deere transmission rebuilt over the weekend.   I told them the only way that was going to happen was to show up and help.  By the end of the day those two fellows were dragging *** .    :)

Firewoodjoe

Quote from: teakwood on September 18, 2022, 10:05:55 AM
Speaking of good mechanics, does anybody knows what the heck happened to Mike?  I sure miss him here and i don't think i'm the only one. couldn't even send him a PM  ???
I was wondering the same thing but if you look at his activity he logged in not long ago. Don't remember now when though. Maybe he is taking a break from so much internet stuff. I know I hate how addicting these smart phones have become. 

Ed_K

 Last time I texted him he was working full time for that logger he mentioned on here. Guess he was loving it running the skidder.
Ed K

rdobb13

@kiko, hey sir.  Getting a 478 code that is bringing the stop light and buzzer on.  It has some other codes that it's always had.  What should I look for? 

rdobb13

Also codes 421, 343....they have been in for a while.  

kiko

F421 Engine temp sensor or wiring short to ground
F343 Trans temp sensor issue

F478 pump control current . Check the two pin connector at the back of the injection pump.  Also check the connector at the ecu.  I have had to replace that connector with a pig tail many times.  You can purchase what you need to make a pig tail at most autoparts stores.  This is the Dorman part number.  The plug won't fit but you can remove the terminals and they will snap into the deere plug.

 

 
Could not get the camera to focus but you get idea

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