Directional Felling Techniques for Narrow Tall Leaning Fence Line Trees

[barbender]

To be clear, the only reason to angle that bore cut is if the tree is too small to bore cut it normally.

[Walnut Beast]

Some Christmas ideas for your machines 😂. And the guys that have them love them. 
https://www.ryansequip.com/product/dangle-saw/




 

[Nealm66]

That bore leaving the strap in the back and no undercut looks like it chairs every time? All of the chairs I've seen don't necessarily end up exactly where you want them 

[YellowHammer]

Nealm66, how would you modify the cut to not barber chair?  Are you saying make the lower cut on the face lower than then bottom of the angled bore cut?

I've never seen an angled bore cut like that, that's interesting, I can see that or even a conventional bore cut with heavy hinge would be something I can use the mini to push on the leaner at an angle to the hinge and but get it to fall in the direction of the hinge.  That way I could still keep the excavator in the clear fenceline, maybe at a 45 degree angle, and then use the hinge in the tree to redirect or pull the tree the remainng 30 or so degrees to get it out into the woods.  That's new to me.  Does that sound like it might work?

I do have some heavy tree pulling tackle, even a 3/4", 150 foot arborist rope with a 3 ton block.  Very heavy duty stuff, I used to brag I could bend a bucket sized tree nearly to the ground like a fishing rod.  However, all that stuff is good for "Home Base" clearing work, but way overkill and way too cumbersome for remote woods work, especially these little trees.  I think the rope alone weighs maybe 30 lbs and is a mess in the woods because it's so long.  For this stuff, I'd probably go to a smaller setup, maybe 1/2 tree puller and line, which I don't have now.  I could certainly use it as a last resort but....

I do have the largest Compact Track Loader Kubota makes, I'm not sure I couldn't just squash these guys down pretty good with it, and I do like the idea of the CTL Feller Buncher attachment.  Thats pretty cool, and would sure take care of these guys.  I may try and give them a push or two, with the bucket, but with all the mud here now, I'm not sure how much traction I'd get.

I do have a 28" excavator mounted tree mulcher, and I could easily take these trees down with it alone, but I'm not sure how to do directional felling with it.  So getting them down would be easy, but getting them to fall against the lean is something I've never done with it.  Generally, I just put the head against the side of the tree, grind a narrow hourglass looking slender spot in the trunk, raise and swing the boom and push it over from the side.  Sometimes it works and sometimes the tree wants to go the other way if I don't have enough power in the swing gear.  So I'd have to set up to use the head for pushing and I'm not sure it could take a dead stick push without doing some damage.

I do have to admit though, I'm intrigued by some of these chainsaw felling techniques I've not used before.  These are interesting, especially since I can do them in batches.

[Southside]

So I am just going to say this and Robert you know why.  Your machine does not have a forestry FOPS cab on it, while I understand what BB is suggesting and can see it working - usually - what happens if something goes wrong?  You have no place to go, 40'-50' of tree is a lot more than 10' of log.  You are working on slopes, with unbalanced trees, and talking about using a machine in a way that it was never intended to be used.  One or two trees - yup I would do it.  Miles of them - I would find a better solution, and you know me - there isn't much I won't do if it needs to be done, but this - not so much.  

[Walnut Beast]

I don't care what anybody says but I bore cut everything even if I want it to go a certain way and do make various notches to go the way I want it to go. So much control of having the center cut out and cutting the outside connecting points. I don't carry or use a wedge when you do it that way

[Walnut Beast]

Bore cut the centers and mulch the outside and go up and push them over if you can get to them

[Walnut Beast]

Southside makes a good point on safety. The big difference of doing it that way versus a drum or disk mulcher on a dedicated or skid is you have the push bar for leverage and containment. 

Another option I would be comfortable with on that size of trees is bore cut the tree and then put the bucket up high or mulcher the way you want it to go and get out and cut on the one side and if it doesn't go over it should when you give it a little more when you get back in and push 

[Ianab]

How old / good is the fence? This looks like the sort of job you would schedule with a fence rebuild. If you figure the fence is old and needs replacing anyway, then the directional falling isn't as important. 

If trees want to fall over the fence, then tip them that way, and clean up the mess later. 

[Nealm66]

Southside voices my concerns as well. I don't see in the drawing where there was a face at all. Having the face lower than the undercut only helps give the tree a lip to push back against which is very important if you're topping through other trees so the butt doesn't come back and ruin your day. Does not prevent barber chairs. If I was hired to do your job I would build a simple dirt spur above at a safe distance the whole distance and pull /winch every tree using the method I described earlier with only a deep face and no back cut which will give you better aim to thread through the gaps and prevent hangers. I did a large job similar to yours for the city of eatonville for about a1/2 mile with a highway and major power lines beneath me and this was the method that worked the best. A simple dirt spur should be fairly easy with your excavator and much safer than your current plan of attack. Hope this helps

[Walnut Beast]

One longer cable and various shorter ones will get you all the length that you need and shorter ones when a long one isn't needed. A good heavy snatch block or two will let you do about anything. The cable pictured is some I had and took in to a rigging place and had them swaged. With cables, chains, snatch blocks amazing things can be done.  

 

 

[Peter Drouin]

I would hire a man with a track feller / Buncher. Let the logger do his thing and make you a wide road for you. You can cut lumber and make $$. On a lot of trees, you will be using the swing motor on your new toy. Swing doesn't have the muscle like when you're pushing or pulling with the boom.

The right tool for the right job.
You might get it all done for $2.000 to 3,000 short money

[teakwood]

all good technics explained for small diam tree felling, but they only work if the tree has free space to fall. In your case where the small tree gets hung up on some branch on a bigger tree you will always damage your fence.  Or use cables and blocks and a machine to push pull but that is time consuming or just rent a bigger machine as suggested to lay down directionally and later clean up with your smaller machine. there is no clean way to do it. i fell lots of my trees on fence lines and there is mostly no way to get them down cleanly. i just drop them over the fence and we later repair the fence. it's alot better to fell the steam directly over the fence than trying to bring them down parallel to the fence and  some big tree push it over the whole fence with all the top and branches, then there is a mess to clean up.

[slowmiller]

We were having similar problems with those size trees on our clearing jobs. I ended up buying a Jak 250 shear for my 8 ton excavator and have been pretty pleased with it. 8" in hardwood is about all it wants but I think my system pressure may be a little low. If the tree is bigger than 8" I just reach up as high as I can and snip it off. Makes a pretty good grapple with the blade removed also.

 

 

[YellowHammer]

Can you control the top after shearing it?  I'm always up for getting a new piece of hardware.

Well, I have to admit, I'm getting a master class in technique and options, that's for sure, and why I really like this Forum.  I'm also glad to know that I wasn't totally out to lunch, these little leaners are a pain, and I wasn't just imagining it.  As a matter of fact, what Teakwood describes is exactly what happened, I put a tree down along the fenceline with the excavator and although the stem fell in the clear area alongside the fence, the branches took out the fence.  Our fence is really high end 5 strand, high tensile barb wire, that took us 18 months to run, many, many thousands of dollars, only about a decade ago, so it's basically brand new and in great shape.  I can splice it no problem, but if I do a tradeoff on time, it makes more sense to spend the time running a rope or cable to pull trees than splicing fence.

I can see making a secondary spur up off the fence line to facilitate roping, that wouldn't be that hard, my woods are very open already and in many cases I can drive through it.

I don't have a ROPS on this mini, and safety is a good topic to raise, I don't want to wreck a machine or me, by doing this.  That would take all the fun out of it.  So good reminder on that.  As SS says, I am on some pretty steep slopes and cross slopes sometimes, very little flat ground.  I've already got a nice love tap on the excavator where I was pushing a tree over and I slid downhill and sideways into the fence.  Oops.  

I get the time lost thing, but when I turn off the mill at the end of the day, I like moving dirt and doing "farm stuff" and don't really consider it time lost off sawing because I'm done for the day and would be doing something else anyway, even if it was going down to the pond and catching fish.  Safety, though is a driving force.  I'm old and brittle.

I do know some independent loggers :D and I may see what it would take for them to bring out one of their machines to do this.  On the other hand, I once rented a D6 and it would crush these trees to the ground without even slowing down.  That's how I cleared some of this line to begin with, 20 years ago.  A D6 against a 12 inch tree is ugly and fun....

So...taking safety into account, I'm thinking if I had a smaller winch setup, one more handy and scaled down to 12 inch trees, picked a center rigging tree, then I could rope or cable several from the same point with out having to re rig the anchor.  Get them taught to keep them from falling on the fence, and try to push them over.  If that's a no go, just pull them over using the rope and bore cut method.  That would protect me and the fence, and wouldn't take too much time.  Since I can take out the big trees with wedges, they are pretty easy, and the smaller trees are very easy, it's these smaller midsize ones that are giving the issue, and they show upon in clumps, sometime maybe a hundred yards between them, sometime right next to each other.  

Is there a shortcut way to rig a rope up the tree, something besides a throw bag and string?  Something I could attach to the tree with the excavator and thumb?  Maybe even a big steel hook attached to a steel cable?  I don't think I've ever seen one of those for felling...but it's how to quickly tie to oil rigs for fishing in the gulf, they are called "rig hooks" with maybe a 2 foot throat and the boat is eased up the the oil rig, the hook is on a 10 foot pole, and is dropped over the legs or braces of the rig and then the boat is backed off a few feet, and done.  

Here is an example of one of my "problem trees", this is a picture of a fenceline I did this week, all the disturbed earth and limbs up the line are trees that I was able to remove no problem with the excavator.  Pull or dig out the small trees, reach up break off any overhanging limbs and crawl down the hill.  I've cleared maybe 15 or 20 feet off the fenceline at a decent clip.  However, the hickory tree in the foreground, right side of the picture is the kind I'm talking about.  Maybe 12 inch diameter, if that, tall to the sky, and leaning over and branches heavy over the fence because that's where it's getting sun.  I was able to squeak by it with the excavator, and just had to walk off and leave it standing, laughing at me.  You can see some of the other trees up the line and how the branches reach far over the fence to get sun.



  



 

[Nealm66]

Have you considered a Lewis winch? I've used them a lot and pulled some large hard leaning trees off they're lean but I climb up a ways with spurs. I have used a tree service slingshot with success but it's much faster to climb. 

[stavebuyer]

Its your place and you want what you want but I would stick to a clearing a driveable/mowable trail along the fence and let the canopy close. Unless you clear-cut a tree length swath on both sides you will be fixing fence anyway. Alot less mowing on a shady lane. You got the mulcher to handle the encroaching branches and if the canopy closes there won't be many of them.

[Walnut Beast]

I would hire a man with a track feller / Buncher. Let the logger do his thing and make you a wide road for you. You can cut lumber and make $$. On a lot of trees, you will be using the swing motor on your new toy. Swing doesn't have the muscle like when you're pushing or pulling with the boom.

The right tool for the right job.
You might get it all done for $2.000 to 3,000 short money

He might as well hire somebody else to run his sawmill while he has coffee 😂. With the equipment he has that would be crazy to hire somebody else!

I understand everyone's safety concerns but this is getting way over complicated. A little common sense, safety and a game plan will get that job done just fine with the equipment he has. Sometimes you have to graduate from diapers to big boy shorts 🩳 😂.

[Old Greenhorn]

.....

I understand everyone's safety concerns but this is getting way over complicated. .......

But that's what we DO here! :D :D It's our job and we are dang good at it. ;D ;D
Sometimes taking things out to the absurd is a good way to expose new ideas that lead a trail back to a truly innovative solution.
We all know YH is a really sharp guy with good gear and I think we all expect he will pick what fits for him best and knock out those trees in fine order. He could easily do it without any help, but I think he may have picked up some tid-bits to help him think it through and perhaps a few things he hadn't considered right off.
I know that's how it works for me when I have a quandry and ask for help here, I do get a lot of stuff that 'does not apply' but I also get a lot of stuff I hadn't thought of and it all works together.
It's the beauty and the frustration of the forum all at once. :D 8)

[doc henderson]

yes WB, but sometimes you have to go to the house early to change the big boy shorts.  :D  It is part of the fun to be efficient.  We kinda all like to think out loud!  Merry Christmas and God bless.   :christmas:

[Walnut Beast]

You couldn't have said it better Greenhorn!! 👍 and Doc !! . Absolutely ideas ideas 💡 

[btulloh]

lol lol  lol

Don't forget the other part - helping someone else spend their money. YH sounded like he was warming up to that new felling head.  

Go $ Go $ Go!

[Hilltop366]

I had a excavator knock down some spruce trees for me, he pulled them towards him with the tree on the RH side of the boom and as it started to come down he pulled and turned at the same time. The first tree had a dead top so he did more turning as he did not want the top to land on the cab if it broke off. 4 large spruce trees in 12 min. 

This is a 25 ton excavator.



 

[YellowHammer]

You guys know me too well, I'm getting predicable!

You are correct, when I'm asking for information, I like to get a firehose and I will try to take it all in and see what works for me.  I have already learned things I didn't know and that's half the fun and why I asked in the first place.  You guys know your stuff and I know the information I get for you is real and backed by experience, so I take it all in, try stuff out, and see what works for me.  

I do like new toys, and they are never out of the question.  A skid steer feller buncher is way cool, and something I hadn't considered, so it's definitely on the table. ;D

Some of these techniques you guys have talked about are new to me, and today I was talking to another professional sawmill operator who is reading this topic and he said it was equally interesting to him, and he's learned stuff too.

The end goal is to do this myself, as I said while learning is half the fun, the other half is doing it.  I have plenty of time, and the excavator has a heated cab and radio, so working in it is better than sitting in the house watching TV.

The end goal is to get enough room for my pickup truck to drive down the fence.  The canopy may close over, and that's fine, it will keep the underbrush from growing up.

Here is one of the new roads I did this week.  The trees are cleared, and I've cut in the side hill to get a relatively level surface.  This was all roughed in with the excavator, and I'll go back over and dress it up with the CTL and stuff and hopefully it will last another 20 years.



  

[Ianab]

You are correct, when I'm asking for information, I like to get a firehose and I will try to take it all in and see what works for me.  I have already learned things I didn't know and that's half the fun and why I asked in the first place.  You guys know your stuff and I know the information I get for you is real and backed by experience, so I take it all in, try stuff out, and see what works for m

100% agree. There is all sorts of ways of dealing with problem trees, and the more of them you know, the better you will be able to chose the better one.  My "sacrifice the fence" suggestion is just based on  a planned job here. 3ft dia cypress leaning and weighted over the fence. Even with Blair's 20 ton excavator, they are going to take out the fence. They are hairy enough to drop (real risk of barber chair), without trying to steer them as well.