Poll: ID

[Ron Wenrich]

There is talk about having a national ID card.  What do you folks think?  Do those outside the US have ID cards? 

Poll expires 10-9-06

[breederman]

If you were born here and are a citizen, absolutely not!  Our civil liberties are slowly being eroded and this trend has been speeded up in the wake of 9/11.  Too many people think that if you have done nothing wrong then an invasion of privacy is ok.
  A national Id card is a giant step on a very slippery slope!

[Dan_Shade]

I do not like the idea of a national ID card, however, I support having to show an ID to vote.

[isawlogs]

  I voted yes ... We already have a social security number ...  Why noit have it with a pic ...  It could be used as id at a national level , airports , customs ... Wont replace the pasport for those going over seas .. but could be the answer to the border crossing between Canada and the US 

[Woodwalker]

I voted yes. There is a very large number of ilgeal's in this neck of the woods. Going to be interesting to see how folks that don't have the influx feel.

[Corley5]

I guess I don't think a separate federal ID is necessary when we already have drivers licenses with photos.  In this state all adults must have a picture ID whether it be a drivers license or a state ID card.  What other info is needed that couldn't just be added to what we already carry ???

[Modat22]

nope, reminds me too much of a religious belief I have.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Here in CR, there IS a Natl. ID Card. They try to screen illegals here, to avoid the drain on Social Services. Doesn't seem to be real successful, unless you get stopped by the Policia. I voted don't know. There is a big security problem throughout the world with stolen ID's.  : :

[DanG]

I didn't vote yet.  This is a question about which I haven't done sufficient cogitation.  However, I'll give you my initial, kneejerk reaction and reserve my final decision until later.

My first thought is, that it is a great idea.  Let's look at a couple of cold hard facts.  The Birth Certificate prove's absolutely nothing at all.  It merely reflects that somebody once said that somebody was born on a certain day, and that the Mother accused a certain male as being the Father.  It offer's no proof whatsoever that any one person is the one described on the document.  In a word, worthless!

The other primary form of identification used today is the Social Security number.  When I got mine, you weren't eligible to have one until you were fourteen.  When I was fourteen, I had to pass by the SS office on my walk home from school.  Me and ol' Cleve Dixon stopped in there one day and got us a card.  My parents weren't there, and I wasn't asked for any kind of ID.  This sweet old lady, who I'm sure is quite dead by now, just handed me a card with a number on it.  That card rotted away over 40 years ago, but I remembered the number, at least I think I did, and that's what I've been trading on, ever since.  I have no idea if the number I remember is what was actually on the card, or not, but that's the number all of my taxes have been paid to, and the number that I hope to recieve payment from in a couple of years.  I figger that in about two years, they'll decide that this system wasn't very good, and refuse payment, based on that skimpy evidence.

Oh yeah, getting back to the Birth Certificate;  I needed mine to apply for VA benefits last year, and I didn't have a copy.  My birth county isn't online yet, so I had to go up there and apply for it in person.  I just walked up to this window that had a little "talk hole" in it and told them what I wanted.  I poked a $10 bill through the slot and that pretty little gal made me a couple of copies of a document that stated that somebody was born on 9/3/46 and that person was in possession of a penis at that time, and his Mother was born on 12/25/21 and she accused a man, born on 6/2/19 of being the Father of said child.  The document was signed by a drunkard who was alleged to have attended Medical School at some time in the past.  With that, I was granted a large package of benefits from the US Government, who was totally convinced that I had played a large part in the preservation of our freedoms.  By the way, I sent that document to the Veterans Administration, and they sent me a copy of the records of some poor bloke I never heard of.  I got my end of it straightened out, but I don't know if he ever did. ??? :-\

I think I've made up my mind, now.  I'm gonna go vote "YES".  Maybe we'll have this "Identity Theft" problem licked in another 80 years or so. :

[Dan_Shade]

good golly, Dan, i figured you to have been born in like 1910 or something!



I hear you on the birth certificate thing, but I have a better idea, make it a capital offense for identity theft, and also make it to where the Gov't gets back to what they should take care of and axe the rest of it, then we won't need those stinkin' numbers.

Avoiding voter fraud is about all I can see it's worth (or should be worth).  Since I'm from WV, and have seen dead people vote, i think that's a good thing.

[Fla._Deadheader]

What about the footprint on the BC ???  Don't that prove nothin ???

  I gotta get an "Offishull" copy, of an "Offishull" copy of my BC and have it verified that it IS an "offishull" copy of an "Offishull" copy, so I can apply for permanent residency down here ???

[Furby]

Your foot still that small Harold ???

[DanG]

I hear ya on the ID theft penalty, but how ya gonna know the perp thiefed the ID if there ain't no proof of who the original holder of that ID was?  If the ID theft problem is ever gonna be defeated, we gotta have ironclad proof of ID, at birth.

Truth is the only answer, and I can only think of one reason for anybody to be afraid of that. : ;D

There weren't no footprint on my BC, Harold, but that would be a good place to start.  Let me know if they ask ya to take yer shoes off at any point in that process. ;D

[Dan_Shade]

what does counting to 11 have to do with national ID?

ok, I digress, and I'll behave now...

I really think we've backed ourselves into a corner.  I fear the ID system for the same reasons that Modat22 mentioned.  our society is heading to where it's going to have to happen, or we go the other direction where it won't matter anyway.

part of me wonders why it has to matter in the first place.  *shrug*

[Furby]

So in order to have proof at birth in this day and age we are now talking about DNA samples kept on files same as fingerprints and hoping they don't corrupt them.
I have issuse with that whole idea, but how else can you proof at birth that anyone is anyone?

[DanG]

Good question, Furby, but most anything would be better than what they're using now.  DNA, fingerprints, footprints, and the eyeball are all supposedly unique.  Maybe they could use a combination of them.

[tcsmpsi]

I voted "Don't Know".  I do not have all the facts on the ins and outs of what might be proposed on the national id.  But, frankly, any governmental id (driver license, governmental agency produced id, etc.) is no more or less, for all practical purpose, a 'national id'.   The two main identifiers for anyone, are full name and date of birth.  With these two things, one can find the rest.

I have so many id's and governmental 'sponsorships', the whole 'id' thing has long been redundant to my particulars.  Yet, with all the different governmental knowledge, I am as independent as I am obsitantely opionated.  As well, I could disappear off the radar when and if it became necessary.  I can't see where a "national id" would hinder anything.  In fact, it might possibly/probably be more of an inundation into a central system enhancing the capability to become 'just another speck on the paper'.

Sometimes, it's better to hide in plain sight. 

Now, implanting chips or similar, is a different matter and might be a bona fide reason to fall off the radar.  But, on the other hand, it is an electronic, so, its manipulation might prove to be beneficial.

Summarily, to me, paying property taxes is the ultimate 'invasion of privacy', and since that has become such an accepted protocol, the rest is academic.

[flip]

I don't know either.  As said before, a drivers license is basically the same thing.  If they could modify it, to me there isn't a big problem.  Most of the information they are refering to is all public record, it would just be more convinient to have access to in one "card".  Mark 'o the beast is something else, no chips in me, no sir.

[ducknutt]

voter fraud would be the thing I'd see it as being most useful to stop...never have understood why the democrats are against showing Identification to vote, unless they are trying to cheat!

[Tom]

My fear is being confronted on the street, or a knock on my door by some bureaucratic law enforcement officer wanting to "see my papers".   Where have freedoms gone when the delineation between a citizen and a non-citizen is dependent upon the citizen carrying proof.  I don't carry papers now that say I'm not a thief, or not a child molester, or not a white collar criminal.

Social Security identifies you with a number that was never intended to be used for general identification.  As a matter of fact, it was a feared step in the U.S.A.'s trek toward Socialism.

When you have to go to "The Man" to get your sustenance, you need proof that you belong to him.

If we weren't so interested in caring and providing for the Illegal aliens that have crossed our borders, the assumption would be that we are all citizens.  Identification used to not be so difficult.  It still isn't if you aren't too afraid of hurting someone's PC feelings.  There was a time when you could say "You aren't from around here, are you?"

Big cities breed anonymity.  Labor jobs bring those with little education.  More money for entry level positions brings folks from all over the world.  The real answer is education.  That doesn't mean that we are responsible for providing it to the world's populace.

Don't let illegal aliens into the country.  If they get in, you as a citizen know who they are. 
Don't be complacent.  If you know someone is breaking the law, report them to someone who can do something about it.   Don't accept it as their right to be an illegal alien.  That's dumb.

Guaranteed salaries and social programs just create a candy store atmosphere for the low income citizens of other countries.  Why cover it up by imposing regulations upon the citizens.  Impose the regulations upon the immigrants.

Give the immigration authorities, border patrols and other law enforcement agencies the backbone to seal the borders and export illegals.  Follow the rules we have now for legal immigration.

[flip]

Using a national ID system may be a cover for rooting out illegals without being called racist, insensitive or meanies.  It could protect employers  and agencies that provide government assistance money.  They could say this is a way to save taxpayers $$.  As long as there is not some type of RF chip or GPS in it and it coud not be manipulated or reprogrammed by a transmitter of some type I would not have a problem carrying one. There needs to be more discussion to prove to me that these cards will #1 be secure #2 will not affect my credit or be used to manipulate my $$ #3 keep me safer #4 keep illegals from mooching off of our system.  The last one is the biggest one.

[breederman]

  I am pretty sure that the government doesn't know who I am.  The guy that the IRS thinks I am must live a whole lot higher on the hog than I do!  And the guy that the county property tax office thinks I am must live in a much nicer house than me!

[Ron Wenrich]

The context I have heard this in is to protect against voter fraud.  What one of the supposed problems is that illegal aliens have been getting driver's licenses and going through the motor voter registration.  This isn't a federal problem, this is a state problem, since voter registration is up to them.  I have a rough time believing that illegal aliens are really wanting to vote since most of the citizens avoid voting.

How long would an ID be good for?  My driver's license needs to be renewed every 4 years and they get to give me a "better" picture.  How will old people get out to get them renewed?  If you can't, does that mean you can't vote?

Our state uses a system for voting where you have to sign your name or make your mark.  That signature has to match the one that's on file.  Your signature doesn't change much in your lifetime.  Your looks, unfortunately, do change.

I've never applied for any type of government assistance.  What sort of investigation do they do now for applicants?  You can get all types of fake IDs.  What would make a national ID any different?

We have several chicken plants in a neighboring town.  About 5-6 years ago the INS conducted a raid and found 80 illegal aliens.  They bused them out.  The INS has never returned.  The illegals have.

[wassaw]

we all need to remember what happened in nazi germany in the 1930s and certain other areas of the world when governments put a label or i.d. on its people.

[DanG]

I don't see a problem with being able to establish that you are who you say you are. ???  We are a far cry from being like Nazi Germany.  Those bozos allowed themselves to be taken over by a dictator. ??? :  In a couple of months, we've got a guaranteed chance to change some things if the majority doesn't like what's going on.  Maybe we'll change it, and maybe we won't.  The German people didn't have that right in the thirties.  The Iraqis and Afghans didn't have it just five years ago.

I see the National ID as a tool to help protect our borders.  We can spend billion$ building a fence, but that won't work.  Voter fraud isn't the only thing the card could help prevent.  What about the identity theft epidemic?  It wouldn't stop it, but it might help a bit.

I ain't afraid of the card.  I'm proud of who I am, and I ain't scared to show who I am!

As a side note;  I buy gas at a Pilot Travel Center, and I use a debit card.  Nowadays, when you pull the card out, it asks you for your ZIP code.  Now the ZIP code doesn't appear on the card, but it is in the records, so if the numbers you punch in don't match the records, ya don't git no gas.  I'm sure somebody will think this is an invasion of their privacy, but I'm grateful that somebody is doing a little something to protect my card if it is stolen.

[Bill]

Tough call - lots of good points on both sides.

I tend to get down to how will it happen. What I mean is that with most of these things I may believe there are good intentions but the actual workings of the thing just don't pan out.

Used to be the IRS was on to criminal or illegals iffen they filed a false SS number when they took a job - like they filed with 99 exemptions so no tax was taken then skipped out before the taxes were due and the IRS could catch up to them. ( They're now requiring employers to report that so its not finished yet ). My point is that honest folks follow the law. Whats going to make a crook or illegal stop from using my number and his/her picture ( or zip or DNA or ?? ) on a forged card. They're already breaking the law so asking them to not break the law over a card doesn't seem to cut it.

So I 'm kinda leaning towards what Tom said - why are we asking the honest folks to be compromised - shouldn't it be the illegals ( or crooks ) that have to pay ?  Maybe the govt should stop concerning themselves with controlling the citizens and focus on controlling the bad guys ?

Maybe that's it - maybe there needs to be a once and done law. So we just need to keep the violaters DNA/SSN/picture/signature/DOB/Place of birth/etc on file and like Tom said - you don't need to carry a card that says you're not a bank robber .


???

[Texas Ranger]

I got me a pocket full of id's, three for insurance, two for some state licenses I hold, the last two are picture id's.  Got a sociable security card that aint worth squat, cause just a number.  got a bunch of other stuff of no use, but I carry it. 

A state drives license is basically a national ID.  Particularly the new ones with the magnetic strip.

Enforce the laws we got, and kick out illegals.  Simple.  No id change.

[beenthere]

In WI, illegals can get drivers license with nothing more than a voters registration card from their home country. That makes them ok to board a plane, for example, with their WI DL as ID. Pretty thin security, IMO.
I don't want to see ID's, but being we have been so lax up to this point, I don't see any choice - if we are to keep a country with US citizens to pass on to our children and grand children. We seem to fret more over saving the Ivory Bill Woodpecker than the place of freedom for our children. I may have to vote "YES" but 'don't know' is all I can muster at the moment.
Lots of good comments on the subject so far.

[Furby]

So who would be in charge of the national ID?
The federal goverment has provent it can screw up anything and everything.
That leaves the states to take care of it and we already have that with our DL.

[firecord]

Not sayin yawl are right or wrong, but.

What works in this country?

NOTHING FOR LONG

Someone always finds a way to cheat - steal - or borrow.

I got enough dang numbers!

357, 9mill, 40s&w,  243, 7mill, 30:06, 7X57 and my favorite 44 MAGNUM
Just to name a few

And when the BLUE HATS try to takem I'll show them the business end.

[CHARLIE]

We don't need any more Big Government!  We don't need any more ID's. We need the Federal, State and Local governments to enforce the laws on the books today. We need for those that break the laws to be penalized. That includes voter fraud and hiring people that are in this country illegally.

Penalties should be stiff to discourage others.

All people found to be here illegally should first be put into the slammer if they have any fake ID's and documents (that's against the U.S. and State laws). If they are from Mexico, when they get out, they should be packed into a boat and taken to Mexico City and put ashore. If they are from any other country, they should be shipped to the furtherest city in that country.

[SwampDonkey]

Social Security identifies you with a number that was never intended to be used for general identification.  As a matter of fact, it was a feared step in the U.S.A.'s trek toward Socialism.

Yup, and according to the way it legally works here is the government and your employer are the only ones authorized to have it, for tax purposes only. The banks are not even entitled to it, other than to be used for tax purposes. It's not to be used to access your personal information to be sold to telemarketors.

[SwampDonkey]

I voted no to the new National ID card. Those that want to do harm are going to get in with or without one and the only way someone is going to be detected is if they get stopped for speeding or something along that line or ID'd through the transportation system. Looks to me that you guys better be prepared to stand in very long lines and march in rows like Nazis with the proper papers on you at all times so some SS officer can verify who you are.  Better close all borders and erect barriers to keep the Mexicans and Canadians out. :

[Tom]

You speak with tongue in cheek but truth is that those are the very thoughts that go through many American Citizens minds, mine included.  You open the barn door to ride the horse and all the chickens, cows, goats dogs inside run for the opening.  Freedoms aren't something that can be temporarily suspended, nor, once experienced, given up without a fight.  Freedoms are lost by the complacent and those looking for a free ride.  Socialism is the big government that keeps the reins on chattel.

[pigman]

Better close all borders and erect barriers to keep the Mexicans and Canadians out. :

I don't worry about the Mexicans because I can't understand anything they say.     The Canadians worry me because I can understand just enough of their language to get confused. smiley_dizzy  That is everyone except Marcel; I can understand him perfectly. Seems he speaks a different type of Canadian language.
Bob

[PineNut]

Big brother starts out addressing a need and says that giving up a little freedom for the protection of all is justified. Then big brother's bureaucrats will stretch it a little for something that was not explicit icy said but is in the gray area. After a few iterations, you have given up all freedoms this need addressed and we are starting all over on a new subject. Before long, we will all be enslaved with very few freedoms left. Of course we could take it to the Supreme Court and say it is unconstitutional but how far do you think that would get. National ID is just a step along the way.

[DomR]

I'm like the rest of you guys- plenty of stuff in my wallet and all of it has the same name but it still don't say I'm a citizen.  What does?  how many of you could prove that without a doubt, you are a citizen in a reasonable time, say two weeks?  I don't think that a birth cert does it, could be fake. DNA would need some type of huge storehouse that a snip of hair taken at birth has been kept in for the older people (anyone not born yet)to prove who they were or it wouldn't work. Having someone vouch for you casts doubt on them.  I'm afraid that if we have to start proving who we are the govt will find a way to mess that up too.  Why is it that our elected officials think we are too stupid to understand the ramifications of such a law?  Is it because we voted them into office?
I vote NO!

[Furby]

Actually, your DNA can be recorded on a computer, but they would need a sample to "read" in order to create the file in the first place.

[Ron Wenrich]

Innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.  Its the basis of the legal system.  The papers just prove your innocence.  Not having papers would not prove your guilt, just your lack of not going with the system. 

[crtreedude]

In some ways - we already have this in the USA. Most driver's licenses have your photo. There is a national numbering system - it is SSI You have a State ID if you don't have a Federal one.

Yesterday we got our driver's license renewed in Costa Rica. We had to present our Passport, get a picture taken, and they check your fingerprints. If I am correct - the fingerprints is to check with Interpol on whether you are someone running from the law... (you might be in trouble FDH... ;) )

If you are going to use an ID for purchasing things (like a credit card or a check)- well, you pretty much have let the cat out of the bag. Also, if you have a loan, credit card, etc, etc - , it isn't hard to find out everything about you.

Here in Costa Rica - you can't do much of anything without the official ID - for people like us - it is passport - for the locals - it is cedula. However, there is an underground economy which is pure cash - but the amount paid is less too.

Employers or foreignors who chose to bypass it face very stiff penalties. The government here has started to really crack down on this. Since the government spends more than it takes in - this is an easy way for it to increase revenues. Make sure people are paying their taxes, etc.  I tend to agree, it isn't right for only part of the population to pay taxes but everyone use the services.

[Max sawdust]

I cheated, voted yes then read DanG's first post and changed mine to a Don't know vote.

Lots to think about here.  Too many unanswered questions, with the trend twords more and more Government shenanigans I am not sure if we need another form of ID.

Max

[Larry]

Went to renew my drivers license last month and found out it has changed from a license to a ID card.  Had to show my birth certificate, ss card, and voter registration.  They had alternatives for the voter registration like utility bills etc.  No paperwork...you could get one extension for a year to come up with the documents.  Cost about $30.  Got to thinking that it would be easier and cheaper to have a college kid make me a fake drivers license...they have gotten pretty proficient at counterfeiting.

[Tom]

I find it humorous that they justify the validity of your driver's license with three documents that they don't acknowledge as being identification. 

Then they let you substitute an electric bill? 


Jedidiah