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eclassic tubulator removal

Started by jchartrand, December 04, 2010, 04:44:46 PM

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jchartrand

has anyone tried running their eclassic without the tubulators in? i am experimenting with it right now and the stove seems to draft better and gassify quicker and does not seem to burn any more wood, posibly a little less, probably due to the quicker, more consistant gassification.

doctorb

I have always wondered if they have a positive or negative effect on stove performance.  They must be there for a reason!  I think a call to CB may be in order.  I have found them pretty responsive and would be interested in their reply.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Bioman

The turbulators are there to reduce or eliminate laminar flow inside the tube.  Without them, hot air will slip by the walls of the tube without transmitting as much of the heat as is possible.  If you  were to measure the stack temp, I'd bet they are higher without the turbulators - translation - less efficiency. 

There is some debate on wether turbulators are necessary in all of the tubes.  Some recommend only using them on the second pass (if the machine is of counter flow design).  I've also seen where turbulators are only half the length of the tube. 

In most cases the turbulators have the dual function of acting as cleaners.  They are usually designed to twist or twirl in the tube which will knock out some of the soot that collects.  It only takes 1/32" of soot to make a huge difference in heat exchange.


doctorb

Bioman, you are one interesting guy!  Nice info!  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

jchartrand

I understand that the stack temp will be higher and the amount of heat transfered will will be lower but if the stove will gassify quicker and more conistantly then higher temps achived in the reaction chamber will intern possibly offset the difference in efficiency and equal out to the same amount of wood burned but in a cleaner way with less maintence and smoke. Any thoughts?

Bioman

With turbulators removed, the temps in the reaction chamber will come up quicker, the reaction chamber will fire quicker, you will have less smoke, but you will definitely burn more wood.  High temp stack loss is the best indicator you have for efficiency without using sophisticated equipment.  High temp AND smoke is even worse as the smoke is unburned gas so you get a double whammy on the losses.  So from that standpoint I think you are right, if you can get rid of the smoke, that alone helps.

Ideally the best heat exchange is with turbulators installed and clean tubes and without the smoke.

doctorb

DarkBlack-  Welcome to the FF.  Thanks for telling us about your tinkering.  All ideas are welcome.  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

jchartrand

as of right now I reinstalled all of the tubulators except for the longet two. the wood consumption seems to be a little less but it is hard to tell in just three days. i too have removed the bottom solonoid and that itself made a huge difference in the stoves performance. i have not yet drilled the drain holes because in three season of running the stove, i have yet to have a problem due to creosote and this year i did remove the draft tubes to check and they were clean. will drilling the holes improve the performance? please throw me some opinions here.

jason1977

i took my bottom solinoid and took that plate that covers up part of the fan off and i think it made a big difference in my stove.  i think i uses  less wood now and it hardly smokes now because my stove would not go into high burn because my temp hardly goes 10 deg from my set point.  i keep my stove set at 186

jchartrand

I run mine at 195 and it seems to help keep the creosote buildup to a minimum probably due to the higher temps allowing the creosote to flow down to the fire more freely. Jason, have you drilled your drain holes?

jason1977

Yes. I have it took about a hour to do that it wasn't to bad toi do.



maybe I will turn my temp up and see if that helps me to.   I am typing this on phone sorry for all. The. Spaces




doctorb

Darkblack-

I think that your temp overshoot re-emphasizes the points made by Bioman earlier.  While you are getting great heat production, the stove may be getting a little "overproductive" and the momentum of the heat generated is leading to temp over-run.  If you like your stove running like you have it set, you might call CB and ask how to lower the temp that the stove kicks out of high burn and back into low burn as the water temp increases.  I think the factory setting is 5 degrees, i.e. if your upper temp limit is 195, then the switch to low burn occurs at 190 to prevent temp over run and potential boiling.  If you could get that set at, say 187, instead, you might be able to keep the higher water temp setting with much less chance of boiling and temp over-run.  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

doctorb

Didn't sound like a complaint...sounded like a possible solution.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

jchartrand

Darkblack, sorry i will not be able to post any pictures due to my digital camera being broken. Hoping for one for christmas. as for the tubulator area, the four tubes that have the tubulators in are clean with no creosote but the two upper tubes with the tubulators removed have a film of creosote on them. as for the temp overshoot, my boiler does the same thing and it has done it for the last two years set at 195 and have yet to see a loss of water or need to add any.

stratford 50

Removed the solinoid on the blower today. I noticed an improvement right off . My temperature set at 180 to 185 recovered 100 percent quicker. I cleaned the top air tube and found some creosote but in my opinion not enough to bother the performance of the furnace. This is a great site. Thanks Stratford 50.

jeff4955

CB upgraded their blowers (more cfm?) somewhere around 2009. This was talked about on a thread last year I think. And taking the solenoid out of the loop will kind of do the same thing. I have noticed on my stove when it runs in low burn it is slow to recover and it does smoke more. Adding more air to the combustion chamber just may reduce the amount of wood used. If it takes less time to come back up to set temp that should reduce wood consumption.You guys may be onto something as this seems to be the route that CB has taken. My stove is 2008 model which I know has a lower output blower on it. I asked CB if I have my stove upgraded with the new mods in the combustion chamber will I also get the new higher output blower and the answer was no.Jeff

jeff4955

One more thing CB has done is that on the 2400 stoves do not have any turbulators, as the passages are rectangular in shape about 2"x 8".These stoves have alot more surface area from which to pickup up heat. Maybe some 2400 owners can chime in here. Jeff

jchartrand

Well, Im still runing my stove with the two longest tubes out and the bottom solonoid removed. Saturday I finally got around to drilling the holes in the firebox and and the stove is now running better than it ever has. Anyone who hasent drilled the holes yet, i would not hesitate. The extra air in the firebox seems to have made the biggest difference of all the things i have tried. I think i finally found my stoves happy place.

island

With the holes drilled the 2300 worked better then last year.Now after I took the solenoid out the extra air into the firebox makes it run great,faster temp rise with less wood consumption.My high limit is set at 192. My unit was made in march 2009. I still am trying to figure out why the bypass won't open sometimes.It looks like the joint by the turbulators is getting full of creosote.On a side note,Sears sells a LED light with a magnet on it,(16.95 on sale) works great if you stick it on the door when loading firebox.

jchartrand

The bypass door gets stuck on mine also. I believe it is due to creosote sticking it shut. I no longer use it when I am loading the stove, I just let the smoke clear out the door then add wood, I usually have to push on the bypass door from inside the firebox when I want to open it for cleaning.

MudBud

Dark, after reading this I decided to remove the fan solenoid cover as suggested. I will let you know what I see.  I don't burn highly dried wood, more of crap scrap wood that is free.  Lots of southern pine pieces.  I do however burn some good stuff when needed.  Lets see if I can recover quicker than before.

Dean186

Quote from: jeff4955 on December 21, 2010, 12:29:45 AM
One more thing CB has done is that on the 2400 stoves do not have any turbulators, as the passages are rectangular in shape about 2"x 8".These stoves have alot more surface area from which to pickup up heat. Maybe some 2400 owners can chime in here. Jeff

The 1400 has a rectangular heat exchanger and no mechanical spiral devices inserted into the heat exchanger.  The 1400 only has the one large rectangular heat exchanger. Without measuring, I would guess it to be 2 inch by 20 inches and about 3 feet long.

ken999

Add me to the list...I yanked the solenoid and cover this AM. After running the boiler all summer and spending alot of time watching things burn it seemed that the low burn cycle was pointless and didn't do anything other than increase the odds of smoke. Not everytime, but alot of times, the stove would knock down to low and smoke a bit after a burning perfectly clear for a 30-40 degree run. This always irritated me and I'd often re-set it to 150 and shut it off. I spent hours fiddling with wood, coals, RC etc etc etc, but never got that final run the way I liked it. After reading this thread I felt kinda foolish that I didn't figure out to pull the solenoid ALONG time ago...haha...not seeing the forest through the trees I guess.

Anyways...I monkeyed up and didn't put enough wood in last night, so things were at 137 this AM. I got her going and pulled the solenoid....after an hour or so the stoved dropped to low, or so it thought, and voila...no puff or transition smoke. Awesome.

Thanks for the tip fellas. I'll keep a good eye on it this week and see how it goes, but so far so good.

ken999

Temps warmed up right after making the changes, so I haven't let the stove run too much on it's own. I've been home alot and have been running it in 'summer  mode'. The few times I let it run, cycling normally, it looked real good. No smoke, never even close to temp over-run/boiling over.

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